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I changed the password on PBase
- Thread starter ZipperZ
- Start date
No disrespect to PBase, but has anyone given any thought to creating a STF Challenge site from scratch? I've noticed that, in addition to talented photographers, there are programmers, web designers/developers, graphic artists, etc. on this forum. It would require some serious work and dedication from volunteers and obviously there would be hosting issues ($$) involved, but if people are truly interested and want to participate this would not only solve the access/security concerns but maybe open up some new doors on functionality.
A good example site is http://www.pixelpile.org - some very talented photographers that usually associate a story with their work.
Then again, I may be opening up a can of worms...
chrys
A good example site is http://www.pixelpile.org - some very talented photographers that usually associate a story with their work.
Then again, I may be opening up a can of worms...
chrys
Hello Stf'ers. It brings me great sadness that the challenges will
require tighter security due to the fact Carpe Diem has voiced
"possible" malicious intent.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=1975335
His comments about PBase has prompted me to change the password asap.
I have emailed the password to Yehuda and he may make decisions as
to keep it open or request all future entries be emailed to him or
the future hosts.
you only alternative is to view and make comments to the entries
http://www.pbase.com/stfchallenge
again, there was not alternative and i had to act quickly
sorry people
--
cheers
Zip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
BFS: NO
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked for the holidays
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ninad
Forum Enthusiast
You maybe right Yehuda...
debadguy--debadguy
debadguy--debadguy
I'd be happy to see it limited to four if necessary. Three if further necessary. But I think if you eliminated the exhibition category, and the non-sony-camera category, there would be room, at least for now, to still allow for five.
Amy
Amy
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
JimB
Leading Member
I like the idea of getting rid of the exhibition and non-sony. The whole idea of the challenge is to think about getting the perfect shot for the subject matter. The pictures outside of the date range are great but they were not dreamed up based on the current challenge.
Mike Drenth
Forum Enthusiast
True, but the current challenge, and possibly future challenges lends to some great exhibition shots that are in the spirit and tone of the challenge. I think the exhibition shots really add to competition. I like to see some of the excellent shots taken previous to the challenge that outline the goal of the challenge so well. I think it'd be sad to see the exhibition category go. Every shot is a challenge in it's own right.
As for non-sony cameras, well - it's a Sony forum run challenge. Let the others run a challenge of their own to liven things up if space gets too tight. Maybe it'll awaken the shutter bug in the rest of the camera forums.
Mike.
As for non-sony cameras, well - it's a Sony forum run challenge. Let the others run a challenge of their own to liven things up if space gets too tight. Maybe it'll awaken the shutter bug in the rest of the camera forums.
Mike.
Respectfully gotta disagree Mike. These aren't supposed to be a competition... they are supposed to be challenges, to help us all improve our shooting techniques. Maybe, if people have the desire and ambition, a monthly "contest" could be run separately where people aren't being challenged to take photos of a particular topic, but can use photos they already took OR go out and shoot more on the subject matter. No offense to some of the great exhibition photos, but really, it's not a challenge to dig through your best photos and put them up in the challenges... and it kinda takes away from the idea of a "challenge" to begin with. I took some great shots of the mets a while back with my 505 and could easily post them up in the current challenge, but that certainly doesn't seem very challenging to me. If I want to share them with folks, I can post them in my own gallery and ask for opinions.
Amy
Amy
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
koo22
Veteran Member
Hi. What you are suggesting is very similar to what was done on the Oly SLR forum for "E-10 Day", which is a twice a year event. One member donated server space, another member donated the time to create and maintain the site. The site was only opened for posting photos (during a certain "allowed" upload time) specifically for the event. The monthly challenges on that forum were/are also done this way. No other photos can be posted there...just for these specific events. And you create your own account with a login name and password to view and/or upload images. This has worked very well but of course it's due to the generosity and time of the individuals who have agreed to set it up. Here's the link for the site for anyone who wants to see how it was set up. K.
A good example site is http://www.pixelpile.org - some very talented
photographers that usually associate a story with their work.
Then again, I may be opening up a can of worms...
chrys
Hello Stf'ers. It brings me great sadness that the challenges will
require tighter security due to the fact Carpe Diem has voiced
"possible" malicious intent.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=1975335
His comments about PBase has prompted me to change the password asap.
I have emailed the password to Yehuda and he may make decisions as
to keep it open or request all future entries be emailed to him or
the future hosts.
you only alternative is to view and make comments to the entries
http://www.pbase.com/stfchallenge
again, there was not alternative and i had to act quickly
sorry people
--
cheers
Zip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
BFS: NO
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked for the holidays
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
koo22
Veteran Member
And the link is: http://www.e10day.com/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi
A good example site is http://www.pixelpile.org - some very talented
photographers that usually associate a story with their work.
Then again, I may be opening up a can of worms...
chrys
Hello Stf'ers. It brings me great sadness that the challenges will
require tighter security due to the fact Carpe Diem has voiced
"possible" malicious intent.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=1975335
His comments about PBase has prompted me to change the password asap.
I have emailed the password to Yehuda and he may make decisions as
to keep it open or request all future entries be emailed to him or
the future hosts.
you only alternative is to view and make comments to the entries
http://www.pbase.com/stfchallenge
again, there was not alternative and i had to act quickly
sorry people
--
cheers
Zip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
BFS: NO
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked for the holidays
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
koo22
Veteran Member
I agree with all of these, especially eliminating the "exhibition" and "ineligible" photos. Not only will this save bandwidth, but it would make it more of a pure challenge to do it within the time frame. K.
ohhhh I have ideas, but take them with a grain of salt... they
aren't at ALL meant to be an insult to anyone who has worked so
hard at the challenges.
Here's my thoughts...
First, I'd like to see that we stick with the notion of
"challenge". I don't think the exhibition category should be
allowed. The idea of a challenge is to go out a shoot photos
specifically for the topic, not dig through you old photos just to
display them. We all have our own galleries for that
Because this is the Sony Challenge, run by Sony camera users for
Sony camera users, it should be limited to people with Sony cameras.
I don't think winners should be selected. It's not a contest.
During the voting stage we should select the ten photos we like, in
order of how we like them. #1 (the least favorite) gets 1 point,
number 10 (the most favorite) gets ten points. When voting is done,
the person with the most points get to do the next challenge. They
aren't a winner (or "the best"), they are the person who gets to
pick the next challenge topic and run it if they want to... or they
can default it down to the 2nd or 3rd person with the most points.
This point system helps illimate someone just sweeping the
challenge. I could pick my best friends photo in the #10 spot
(giving them 10 points) but someone else could get placed into the
of times you get voted for, but the number of points your photos
- 5 spot 10 times (getting 50 points). It's not based on the number
receive. This also gives each person an idea of how their photos
ranked compared to others, even without comments.
When we vote, we should have to leave comments with at least five
of our votes, saying what we liked about the photos we've voted for.
Submitting anonymously should be optional. If a photographer is
comfortable leaving their screen name (which is already anonymous
to most of us) they should. If they choose to leave their real
name, that's there option too. If for no other reason than for
copyright purposes, people should be ABLE to leave some identifying
signature with their photo.
Can you tell I've thought a lot about this? LOL
Amy
--
beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Ninad
Forum Enthusiast
What if we make a separate gallery for exhibitions on the same subject as the challenges...that way whomever wants to show of their best "old" photos on a specific subject can do so and those who want to see those good "old" examples of photos on a specific challenge subject can also do so...all without disturbing the real Sony challenge...
debadguy--debadguy
debadguy--debadguy
Well considering hard drive space might now be an issue, I really think we should consider just illiminating people reposting "old" photos into the challenges. The challenges should be dedicated to new, on topic, taken-with-a-sony pictures, that were specifically taken to be challenged.
Amy
Amy
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Homer40784
Senior Member
I don't want anybody to get upset with me about the following. OK?
It's just an opinon.
I think people are being disingenuous. to say that a challenge is not a contest.
Why isn't it? There is a winner and a second place finisher and a third place finisher. When I wasin school, if there was a winner, it was a "contest".
We are going to go back where everything is PC are we?
I think if you want it to be not a contest, you shoud remove voting and just have discusions. And I have no problem with that.
Now, as to not allowing Exhibitions, I see the logic in this but, how does it hurt anybody?
If I have an old pix that I think is pretty good but the consensus is that it needs cropping, etc then I learn something anyway.
As to the Anonymous posting...well that was the rule set by the moderator.
And the rule before that said the moderator could set the rules.
I do think the "optional" is a good idea, but if the next moderator does not agree, that's oK with me too.
Just some thoughts. None of them are very important to me.
I see the challenge as just a game. I have played games all my life (Which is longer than most of you!) A way to have some fun and maybe learn a thing or two..
Whatever is decided will be fine with me.
Homer
It's just an opinon.
I think people are being disingenuous. to say that a challenge is not a contest.
Why isn't it? There is a winner and a second place finisher and a third place finisher. When I wasin school, if there was a winner, it was a "contest".
We are going to go back where everything is PC are we?
I think if you want it to be not a contest, you shoud remove voting and just have discusions. And I have no problem with that.
Now, as to not allowing Exhibitions, I see the logic in this but, how does it hurt anybody?
If I have an old pix that I think is pretty good but the consensus is that it needs cropping, etc then I learn something anyway.
As to the Anonymous posting...well that was the rule set by the moderator.
And the rule before that said the moderator could set the rules.
I do think the "optional" is a good idea, but if the next moderator does not agree, that's oK with me too.
Just some thoughts. None of them are very important to me.
I see the challenge as just a game. I have played games all my life (Which is longer than most of you!) A way to have some fun and maybe learn a thing or two..
Whatever is decided will be fine with me.
Homer
Ninad
Forum Enthusiast
Homer...you bring up a good point...can somebody explain to me the exact difference between contest and challenge...I agree with Homer in that when there is voting...a winner...a runner up and so forth...then it seems a lot like a contest to me...
debadguy--debadguy
debadguy--debadguy
Homer,
I see all your points, and just disagree. If they are a contest, they shouldn't be called "a challenge". It seems to me that the goal has been to give and get feedback, to stick to a topic to try to challenge you to learn something new, or get better at a specific type of photography. Sometimes it's technical skill, sometimes artistic/creative, and usually a combination of both.
This is why it seems contradictory to me to allow "exhibition" or old photos. There's no challenge in that. Yes, there are wonderful photos in this category, but they can equally be shared in a person's own gallery, or in an exhibition contest with a topic. I see the two thing as something that should be seperate.
If it's a contest, and that's what the general concensus wants, that's fine. But I know I wouldn't participate as much. My photography is not up to speed (IMO) to be competing with people who have been exploring the photography medium for 5, 10, 20 and 30 years.
I look forward to being challenged, and participate for the comments, not the votes. The only purpose I see to votes is to determine who gets to run the next challenge, not to see who's "best".
In respectful disagreement
Amy
I see all your points, and just disagree. If they are a contest, they shouldn't be called "a challenge". It seems to me that the goal has been to give and get feedback, to stick to a topic to try to challenge you to learn something new, or get better at a specific type of photography. Sometimes it's technical skill, sometimes artistic/creative, and usually a combination of both.
This is why it seems contradictory to me to allow "exhibition" or old photos. There's no challenge in that. Yes, there are wonderful photos in this category, but they can equally be shared in a person's own gallery, or in an exhibition contest with a topic. I see the two thing as something that should be seperate.
If it's a contest, and that's what the general concensus wants, that's fine. But I know I wouldn't participate as much. My photography is not up to speed (IMO) to be competing with people who have been exploring the photography medium for 5, 10, 20 and 30 years.
I look forward to being challenged, and participate for the comments, not the votes. The only purpose I see to votes is to determine who gets to run the next challenge, not to see who's "best".
In respectful disagreement
Amy
--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
I'd also like to add that the challenges have SEEMED to get increasingly competitive, as opposed to fun. I really thought (and I admit, I'm relatively new and could be wrong) that the idea was to get you out, away from the computer, taking photos on a specific topic... to learn more about actual picture-taking.
Just my thoughts.
Amy--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Just my thoughts.
Amy--beauty is really in the LCD/EVF of the beholder http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Shutter.
Forum Pro
I see this side, but I'm not sure we should work the challenge around the "lowest common denominator". I don't mean this in an a derogatory fashion whatsoever. I'm only referring to how we approach this. There are definitely new people to the forum that are more skilled and more experienced than myself and others, but we don't know who they are and when they will show up. People come and go to online forums all the time, and I don't think the challenges should be geared to people that may or may not be here in three weeks or so.
As adults, and as people who should treat others as adults, we should make an assumption that all are professional, objective, and forthcoming. Anything else and we degrade the challenge and ourselves. For instance, I am relatively new to stf, and I joined the first three forums, and I was extremely nervous abou the 5th one, more so about the 6th, and am very comfy with the current challenge.
Also, personally, my votes weren't in any way connected with who submitted the photos. I had never heard of Yehuda before the last challenge, but there was no question that I thought his portrait was one of the best. Yes, two of my votes were for members that are active, but its hard to argue with a vote for Shay's and Zipperz'.
I guess what I'm saying is that if our main concern is making people feel comfortable, we should be very active in encouraging people in the forum during the challenge. In fact, I have seen little to no discussion about this challenge on the forum. I think this is a result of the anonyminity. Any newbies probably don't even know about it, and if they do, they probably don't feel welcome because it seems kind of secretive.
I'm rambling, but I think its okay for a newbie who may feel uncomfortable, to wait a challenge before entering. They will soon realize that STF is very welcoming and encourages everyone to participate. We shouldn't sacrafice the enjoyment of the members for the newbies. I think they will soon find that stf is a very welcome place to share the photography.
Allright, that's it.
Jim
As adults, and as people who should treat others as adults, we should make an assumption that all are professional, objective, and forthcoming. Anything else and we degrade the challenge and ourselves. For instance, I am relatively new to stf, and I joined the first three forums, and I was extremely nervous abou the 5th one, more so about the 6th, and am very comfy with the current challenge.
Also, personally, my votes weren't in any way connected with who submitted the photos. I had never heard of Yehuda before the last challenge, but there was no question that I thought his portrait was one of the best. Yes, two of my votes were for members that are active, but its hard to argue with a vote for Shay's and Zipperz'.
I guess what I'm saying is that if our main concern is making people feel comfortable, we should be very active in encouraging people in the forum during the challenge. In fact, I have seen little to no discussion about this challenge on the forum. I think this is a result of the anonyminity. Any newbies probably don't even know about it, and if they do, they probably don't feel welcome because it seems kind of secretive.
I'm rambling, but I think its okay for a newbie who may feel uncomfortable, to wait a challenge before entering. They will soon realize that STF is very welcoming and encourages everyone to participate. We shouldn't sacrafice the enjoyment of the members for the newbies. I think they will soon find that stf is a very welcome place to share the photography.
Allright, that's it.
Jim
--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
Shutter.
Forum Pro
Wow. I missed some good stuff in this thread. Comments below:
Absolutely.
I don't know about that, Homer, I guess I consider a contest where the primary goal is to "win", and where winning results in some sort of compensation. This is a community, and I think most of us consider challenges an opportunity to challenge ourselves and learn from one another. That said, obviously everyone would like to be recognized for good work.
I enjoy the exhibitions, but from my perspective, they get in the way of veiwing the elligible submissions. I'd like to see two subgalleries under each challenge, one for exhibition and one for elligible submissions. That way I know what I'm evaluating.
I agree that the anonymity is for the host to decide. I personally prefer sharing ownership, but its no hill to die on.
Amen.
--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries
David Pichevin
Senior Member
I agree with your disagreementI look forward to being challenged, and participate for the
comments, not the votes. The only purpose I see to votes is to
determine who gets to run the next challenge, not to see who's
"best".
In respectful disagreement
Participating in a "contest" is "challenging" but in this forum I'd rather be here to discover, learn, try to correct my mistakes, get comments on my pics etc...
I think that if we're gonna go more and more towards a contest ambiance then it would at one point end up ruining the spirit here. people will just think about winning, will stop answering comments and questions about their images, stop sharing tips, build up more and more rules etc...
You can see that already in the way we are trying to devise ways to make it more "fair": anonymous posting, new point system etc.....getting much too serious.
Let's just have some fun.
--My photo galleries: http://www.pbase.com/davidp
Shay Stephens
Forum Pro
I agree, it's becoming less fun with the addition of more rules to make it fair. The idea I liked about it was that it was very low key, low stress, amiable, open to talk about. With each new rule we get a layer put between us and the enjoyment. Competetiveness should be kept to the barest minimum, enough to make it fun, and thats what the voting provided. But not so much competition that now we can't even talk about our own photos, or post them to our own galleries.
Please let's simplify this thing and get back to the challenge feel and away from the contest feel.
--ShayMy F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws
Please let's simplify this thing and get back to the challenge feel and away from the contest feel.
--ShayMy F707 Gallery: http://f707.shay.ws
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