Does Nikon listen?

Jim F. · Aug 29, 2006

Please - I don't want any attacks from this so no flame responses.

I'm a Canon shooter and I'm getting increasingly concerned about Nikon. I don't want to ask this on the Canon forum because I don't want biased answers; I'd like to hear from real Nikon people.

There are posts every day from Nikon people moving to Canon FF cameras (there are several on the front page of the 1D/1Ds/5d forum as I write this) and I'd like to know from Nikon shooters what they think is happening with Nikon.

Is Nikon just not listening? Don't they care about the people deserting them in favor of their largest competitor? What the heck are they doing over there? Judging from the activity, the DX format is not the answer.

I absolutely don't want Canon to become a monopoly; nothing good ever comes from a monopolistic company.... Nothing....

Look at Microsoft, look at what Intel did to us all for almost 20 years, look at cable companies. Examples are legion). Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, etc. (even Sony in most respects) are all niche players behind Nkon and Canon in the pro market and only Canon is offering FF cameras.

Can anyone tell me what is really happening? The D2hs, D2xs, both need updating, but where are they going? Will Canon have any competition at the top in the FF arena? I sure hope so, but things look pretty grim.....

Comments????

DPFranz · Aug 29, 2006

There may be several people in the Canon forums claiming to be leaving Nikon to get Canon's FF bodies, but somehow Nikon has managed to increase their sales from last year and make a pile of money.

They believe DX is more profitable for them, and how can one argue? They aren't gaining or losing market share, and neither is Canon. All is fine.
--
Dana Paul Franz
[email protected]
http://dfranz.smugmug.com
'That's what Jagulars always do,' said Pooh,
much interested. 'They call 'Help! Help!'
and then when you look up, they drop on you.'

reck · Aug 29, 2006

D70/D70s complaint:
Small, dark viewfinder.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
Not quite enough MP.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No provision for reducing mirror-slap.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No color histogram.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No vertical grip.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No IS0 100.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
Noisy JPG's.
D80: Check (assuming D50 quality).

D70/D70s complaint:
Just not quite competitive with comparable Canon.
D80: Check!

RonAnnArbor · Aug 29, 2006

I dont get the point of this thread...you are basing problems on three posters in one forum stating they are moving to Canon because they want Full Frame? If that is the case, then you are out of touch with what photographers are looking for in digital cameras.

Nikon is doing better than ever and their sales last year were higher than they ever would have expected.

Full Frame is NOT a feature the majority of digital photographers are even concerned about -- those that are have the option to use Canon.

If this post is not to incite a flame war, then it has no other purpose that I see.

Antonio Rojilla · Aug 29, 2006

Nice list, but who the ... asked for SD cards? A least, they could use a dual card slot (SD/CF) for both D50 and D70 user, and there are smaller cameras with dual slots...

Regards.

reck said:
D70/D70s complaint:
Small, dark viewfinder.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
Not quite enough MP.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No provision for reducing mirror-slap.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No color histogram.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No vertical grip.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
No IS0 100.
D80: Check.

D70/D70s complaint:
Noisy JPG's.
D80: Check (assuming D50 quality).

D70/D70s complaint:
Just not quite competitive with comparable Canon.
D80: Check!

Greg Zillgitt · Aug 29, 2006

Jim F. said:
Please - I don't want any attacks from this so no flame responses.

Sorry, if you don't want flames then don't make flame-bait posts. And if you insist on trolling, try to stick to topics that you know something about.

--
http://www.pbase.com/gzillgi
http://www.pbase.com/gzillgi/wedding_portrait

JMikes · Aug 29, 2006

. . . step toward switching, but not because of FF. I have no complaints with the DX sensor, except that my 24mm is now only of ho-hum width. And I find the noise debate to be largely without merit, because of the very low noise images I'm getting from my D200 at ASAs up to 1000. I'm buying a Canon body (probably a 30D) and 600mm because the big Canon lenses are stabilized and produce on average sharper, cleaner images. Why Nikon has sat around on its collective thumb for years and let Canon have such a competitive advantage is a mystery to me.

I truly doubt that I would sell my D200 and some of my all-time fave lenses (80-200 AFS, 300 ED-IF) and make a complete break, but I guess we should never say never.

John in Minnetundra

JMikes · Aug 29, 2006

Greg Zillgitt said:
Jim F. said:

Please - I don't want any attacks from this so no flame responses.

Click to expand...

Sorry, if you don't want flames then don't make flame-bait posts.
And if you insist on trolling, try to stick to topics that you know
something about.

I move that we rename "flame" to "Zilgitt." Any seconds?

--

John in Minnetundra

DeeTee · Aug 29, 2006

I'd be surprised if the number moving to Canon for full frame in the last few months was more than the number moving to Nikon for the D200.

I think Nikon is looking reasonably healthy at the moment. It would be nice to see a full frame model, but if Nikon has limited resources should they be diverted to an expensive low volume model at the expense of high volume mid-range cameras? Eventually yes, but maybe not for a while yet.

I totally agree that a monopoly is no good for anyone. But I think both Canon and Nikon are looking healthy at the moment. Third place is interesting with Sony making a splash (but they need some additional models in their range) and Olympus supposedly about to make some announcements.

I don't think you need to worry about a monopoly anytime soon.

cheers,
Damien

DvD5 · Aug 29, 2006

JMikes said:
. . . step toward switching, but not because of FF. I have no
complaints with the DX sensor, except that my 24mm is now only of
ho-hum width. And I find the noise debate to be largely without
merit, because of the very low noise images I'm getting from my
D200 at ASAs up to 1000. I'm buying a Canon body (probably a 30D)
and 600mm because the big Canon lenses are stabilized and produce
on average sharper, cleaner images. Why Nikon has sat around on its
collective thumb for years and let Canon have such a competitive
advantage is a mystery to me.

I truly doubt that I would sell my D200 and some of my all-time
fave lenses (80-200 AFS, 300 ED-IF) and make a complete break, but
I guess we should never say never.

John in Minnetundra

I'm curious about this--In general, I would expect big glass (like the 600) to be on a tripod. Why would IS or VR make a difference in this case?

Don
--
A few photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dvd5/

JMikes · Aug 29, 2006

DvD5 said:
JMikes said:

. . . step toward switching, but not because of FF. I have no
complaints with the DX sensor, except that my 24mm is now only of
ho-hum width. And I find the noise debate to be largely without
merit, because of the very low noise images I'm getting from my
D200 at ASAs up to 1000. I'm buying a Canon body (probably a 30D)
and 600mm because the big Canon lenses are stabilized and produce
on average sharper, cleaner images.

John in Minnetundra

Click to expand...

I'm curious about this--In general, I would expect big glass (like
the 600) to be on a tripod. Why would IS or VR make a difference
in this case?

Even on a good tripod it's tough to eliminate lens movement. For example, with my Nikkor 5.6 600 and TC-14b on a Gitzo 1340, and weighed down by two large socks ful of niger seeds, and using all the technique I can muster, I can still see my pulse when I look through the viewfinder. I'm limited to single shots, because shooting off two frames quickly will always result in the second frame being spoiled by mirror slap. Both of these problems are supposedly fixed by the Canon's image stabilization. (And it's sheer bulk, I owuld imagine.) I also like to shoot long telephotos on a monopod, and that's where the IS should really shine.
--

John in Minnetundra

bikinchris · Aug 29, 2006

DvD5 said:
I'm curious about this--In general, I would expect big glass (like
the 600) to be on a tripod. Why would IS or VR make a difference
in this case?

I have to agree that for some situations like with a 600mm and a 2x convertor with low light and slow shutter speeds, VRII would be helpful. Even on a tripod.

However, for sports where fast focus is needed and high shutter speeds too- VR just slows things down too much. Canon brags that focus aquisition and stabilisation is a "less than half a second" when IS is turned on!!!

So nature photographers and people who don't need fast focus have use for VR. Most of the rest don't need it.

Canon cheerleaders harp on no VR in Nikon long glass on a regular basis. This is one of the longest running short comings of Nikon design. BTW, Canon has just recently announced that their IS has the 4 stop ability that Nikon has had much longer. Also, Nikon has just announced a new push for more VR technology. So this may mean VR in long glass soon.

--
Chris, Broussard, LA

JMikes · Aug 29, 2006

bikinchris said:
So nature photographers and people who don't need fast focus have
use for VR. Most of the rest don't need it.

Agreed. I should've noted that I'm primarily a bird shooter.

--

John in Minnetundra

maxz · Aug 29, 2006

But probably all they hear right now is 'dump that expensive fast prime, gimme another mega zoom'. Otherwise we will be looking at AF-S 85/1.4, AF-S 28/1.4, AF-S 35/1.4, 600/4VR, and maybe full range of PC lenses now...
Max

PismoBeach · Aug 29, 2006

Flames before discussing the topic like an adult, I refer to it as giving someone the "Zillgitt degree".

JMikes said:
Greg Zillgitt said:

Jim F. said:

Please - I don't want any attacks from this so no flame responses.

Click to expand...

Sorry, if you don't want flames then don't make flame-bait posts.
And if you insist on trolling, try to stick to topics that you know
something about.

Click to expand...

I move that we rename "flame" to "Zilgitt." Any seconds?

--

John in Minnetundra

Robert Signore · Aug 29, 2006

last time I checked, the sensor in my digital camera has the same frame as my 35mm... 3x2

PismoBeach · Aug 29, 2006

Nikon might hear some suggestions but it is ultimately up to them what cameras they build. Right now they think the DX will work for them then so be it. I think if they were truly concerned about losing people to FF they would have announced some mack up to keep people hanging on. Good thing there are alternatives for those not blindly loyal to Nikon.

Jim F. said:
Please - I don't want any attacks from this so no flame responses.

I'm a Canon shooter and I'm getting increasingly concerned about
Nikon. I don't want to ask this on the Canon forum because I don't
want biased answers; I'd like to hear from real Nikon people.

There are posts every day from Nikon people moving to Canon FF
cameras (there are several on the front page of the 1D/1Ds/5d forum
as I write this) and I'd like to know from Nikon shooters what they
think is happening with Nikon.

Is Nikon just not listening? Don't they care about the people
deserting them in favor of their largest competitor? What the heck
are they doing over there? Judging from the activity, the DX format
is not the answer.

I absolutely don't want Canon to become a monopoly; nothing good
ever comes from a monopolistic company.... Nothing....

Look at Microsoft, look at what Intel did to us all for almost 20
years, look at cable companies. Examples are legion). Pentax,
Olympus, Panasonic, etc. (even Sony in most respects) are all niche
players behind Nkon and Canon in the pro market and only Canon is
offering FF cameras.

Can anyone tell me what is really happening? The D2hs, D2xs, both
need updating, but where are they going? Will Canon have any
competition at the top in the FF arena? I sure hope so, but things
look pretty grim.....

Comments????

Hokum · Aug 29, 2006

the D2XS needs updating? i dont see anything canon have which it can...
--

http://paulgibbs.fotoblog.co.uk/

PismoBeach · Aug 29, 2006

Obviously there are people switching to get FF 35mm. This whole business of saying my DX is FF is dodging the issue and playing off technicality of words. There are nikon users that want it, just because you don't, doesn't mean it isn't relevant. Especially in a case like Nikon with a long proud history of cameras.

Robert Signore said:
last time I checked, the sensor in my digital camera has the same
frame as my 35mm... 3x2

Robert Signore · Aug 29, 2006

Why on Earth would Canon make a digital camera with a larger sensor size then all their other digital cameras? Are they just trying to waste R&D dollars or confuse their market? Or, are they brilliant charging Canon users thousands of dollars more for a camera that takes the same picture as all the other digital cameras with a smaller and cheaper to produce sensor?

Maybe it's Canon users that are not so smart.

Does Nikon listen?

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