Do churches have to much power at weddings?

devnull said:

Because it's basically the same Uncle Harry and Aunt Edna
that say "do not argue with the minister" which also say: "Show us
the wedding pictures, dear. What, I've seen such lovely images of
Joe and Jane iin front of the altar - why do you have none?"

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Tell Uncle Henry & Aunt Edna the Absolute Truth.

"Our Wedding-Professional Photographer could not photograph in anything other than Full Sun and did not know who to Stage shots before hand."

LMAO

--
Dave Patterson
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Midwestshutterbug.com
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'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman

--
Dave Patterson
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Midwestshutterbug.com
----------------------------------
'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman

a voice of experience and reason in this odd debate.

I was a little surprised though to see your comment about weddings being a lot less work than the minister's job. I've only done 5 (as photographer not minister) - so maybe it is an experience thing - but my limited experience has resulted in a tremendous amount of work before, during, and after for a wedding. I work for several weeks after the event getting the images ready and working with the family. Based on the amount of hours I've spent personally, I don't begrudge wedding photogs their money at all!

Regarding flash - necessary evil unfortunately. I hate using flash in a wedding - I definitely think it detracts from the ceremony, but man, sometimes the situations are so bad. I shot one last April that was in a restaurant, but the bride didn't want flash during the (religious) ceremony anyway. Upon reviewing the location at the rehearsal I told her without flash we would be getting a low percentage of keepers. They were getting married right in front of huge picture windows with the late afternoon sun coming right into the windows. It was so backlit even the audience was squinting. She relented and allowed flash. The wedding day it was high overcast so that helped a little - but still very backlit. I ran 2 cameras, one with a wide angle and flash and one without. The one without I used a 70-200 and a spot meter (30d) and EC to try to get detail in the silhouettes. 99% of the flash shots looked acceptable - I even got some of the landscape outside the windows in some of the shots. Only about 33% of the non-flash pics came out. Given more time I could have increased that keeper rate I'm sure - each angle required new adjustments and I just couldn't keep up with the action. I would hate to think what I would have been left without the use of flash in that situation!

It seems like all couples want great images of their wedding day, but the choice of venue, time of day, etc. often doesn't coincide with that desire. lol

Cindy

--
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http://www.pbase.com/cindyd

Rudiman said:

Thats the trouble nowdays, i thought it was Gods house but it isn't
anymore.....

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If you are going to make the argument that now the pastor or whoever makes the rules about photographs at weddings you should keep in mind that God was really, really strict about it. There is evidence indicating that God did not permit anyone to take photographs of the various and sundry miracles performed. No photographs of water being turned to wine. No photos of the miracle of bread cast upon the water. Apparently no photographers were allowed to witness the events.

Photographers may fuss that flash is prohibited, of how they are not allowed to advance beyond the front pew. Fuss about all sorts of things but think how much better it is for us now than in the beginning. Boy I would have loved to have been the photographer on the first day when the world was crated, right on through the whole series up to and including the day when God rested. But, wrong though it may have been, God did not let photographers to get pictures. If he had though I bet nobody would have needed a flash when he said, "Let there be light!"

Next time you encounter a church rule that you think is too restrictive ask yourself what God would do. Or whatever diety you wish to use. Imagine saying, "God, can I use my camera to record today's events?" And God saying in return, " I no Leica."

--
Shoot lots of pictures, always fill the frame

SisQ said:

I was a little surprised though to see your comment about weddings
being a lot less work than the minister's job. I've only done 5
(as photographer not minister) - so maybe it is an experience thing

• but my limited experience has resulted in a tremendous amount of

work before, during, and after for a wedding.

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Don't get me wrong... weddings are a lot of work. But I guess for me, it's different when I'm working with the people, and when I'm working alone in the lab. The latter is fun and the time kinda flies. It may work out to be about the same in the end, but the work with the people is WAY more on the minister side.

SisQ said:

It was so backlit even the audience
was squinting. She relented and allowed flash. The wedding day it
was high overcast so that helped a little - but still very backlit.

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I've had one like that... an entire wall of glass in the front of the church with the sun in view.

But couldn't use flash, and wouldn't have wanted to anyway. Fortunately, moving to the side crouched down with the 70-200 2.8 made for some remarkable pictures of the wedding party lit beautifully by the sun. It was unlike any interior shots I've ever done... really a nice glow to the event. Like they had God's glow around them.

Of course the groups required flash, and I brought in the umbrellas, and carefully exposed ambient light for the outside, then filled with the flash. Made for some remarkable groups, too... with the outside being brought inside.

Anyway, sometimes the worst lighting conditions give stress, but the end results are better in the end. You get some shots you couldn't get otherwise. Sounds like you found that out, too.

--
BryanS

--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon FiveDee, Canon 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o, Fuji Eff30.

I got some that day just like you describe - kind of dreamy with stray light all over the place. I actually like those images best from an artistic standpoint. So yes - the challenge of the lighting combined without using flash helped me grow and achieve some cool images. But for covering the ceremony in more standard shots with less artistic license the flash saved my behind. lol

I had to do the formals in the same spot because it started raining outside after the ceremony. Unfortunately I only had my 420 ex - not strobes and umbrellas. But they came out OK for the conditions - a little more flash power, and like you I think I could have done a better job of bringing the outdoors in.

BryanS said:

BryanS said:

BryanS said:

It was so backlit even the audience

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was squinting. She relented and allowed flash. The wedding day it
was high overcast so that helped a little - but still very backlit.

Click to expand...

I've had one like that... an entire wall of glass in the front of
the church with the sun in view.

But couldn't use flash, and wouldn't have wanted to anyway.
Fortunately, moving to the side crouched down with the 70-200 2.8
made for some remarkable pictures of the wedding party lit
beautifully by the sun. It was unlike any interior shots I've ever
done... really a nice glow to the event. Like they had God's glow
around them.

Of course the groups required flash, and I brought in the
umbrellas, and carefully exposed ambient light for the outside,
then filled with the flash. Made for some remarkable groups,
too... with the outside being brought inside.

Anyway, sometimes the worst lighting conditions give stress, but
the end results are better in the end. You get some shots you
couldn't get otherwise. Sounds like you found that out, too.

--
BryanS

Click to expand...

--
**************************
http://www.pbase.com/cindyd

where Uncle Joe stood up & videotaped the whole baptism, but I tried to respect the priest's request not to use a flash. I always take fast glass.
--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon FiveDee, Canon 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o, Fuji Eff30.

all you have to do is call your local priest or minister and ask them if the wedding is considered a worship service.

since you are thinking as you are, are you in for a surprise.

We have shot alot of weddings in the last 7 years. Alot requires no flash and we have had some that require no movement. You just got to live with it. I usually meet with the minister before the cermony and ask what does he prefer. AND I DO JUST WHAT HE SAYS. Its there rules so follow them. I will tell the bride ahead of the cermony that the minister has this rule like no flash and it will be cool. Your there to photograph the event not a distration to the guest and the cermony. Get yourself a tripod, big lens, and a expo disk for color ballance and you will be fine Infact I always stand in the back and shoot without flash. If we are allowed to shoot with flash and move closer I will let one of my assistants. But where ever they choose to stand they stay there until the KISS.

the communion that is - I remember having to get down on my knees in that gown. lol. Of course the solemnity of the occassion may have been broken by the laughter in the audience when they saw the (inappropriate but funny) message written in white shoe polish by an unknown sabateur on the bottom of my husband to be's shoes as he was kneeling for communion.

I don't know how anybody can consider a church wedding not a religious service. Even the restaurant wedding I shot had a religious service with the entire wedding party forming a prayer circle during the ceremony. If it is done by an ordained minister (vs. a justice of the peace or one of those internet qualified guys it is a religious service! And even if it is not 'religious' a flash can detract from the real reason everybody is there. I can see why some couples and some ministers prohibit - the rub comes in everybody knowing what that decision means to the end product, and either accepting it or changing the time/location to allow both great pics and no flash.

Cindy
--
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http://www.pbase.com/cindyd

Fox123 said:

Thank you Rudiman I thought i was going to be the only one that
thinks churches have to much power.

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Did you ask the question in order to learn something new, or did you ask just to find someone to agree with you?

--
Daniel

every time my friend succeeds, a little part of me dies

sealsphoto said:

So, in short, do the best you can with what you are given to work
with. If the minister says you can't do something, don't do it. It
is a worship service, and should be treated as such.

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If it's a worship service rather than a wedding, why on earth would anybody choose to get married in a church?????

BryanS said:

When you tell people that they're not allowed to smoke in your
house, do they question, "Does Rudiman have too much power?"

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I imagine his friends are more likely to ask the question, "Does Rudiman have to (sic) much power?"

--
Daniel

every time my friend succeeds, a little part of me dies

BryanS said:

Rudiman said:

I do have a fast lens that i will use and i agree that its better
not to use flash but the question is......Does the church have to
much power?

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When you tell people that they're not allowed to smoke in your
house, do they question, "Does Rudiman have too much power?"

--
BryanS

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Rediculous to compare smoking to using flash. Whens the last time using flash has killed someone?
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I'm surprised you had to ask...

Sheldon Bowles said:

If a bride wants a wedding to be "her" event then there is the
option of City Hall, a local hotel, or Las Vegas.

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Sorry; this just gets my goat.

The options also exist to have the wedding in a place like Yosemite, the beach, a beautiful forest grove, a field in the great nature surrounded by your most cherished friends and family ... instead of a place where alter boys are raped.

It's not like anyone who doesn't get married in a church had better look into seedy porn motels. That probably isn't what you're implying, but it still caused a bit of a reaction.

I seriously feel sorry that you cannot understand what people are trying to explain to you.

Rock Lee said:

Rock Lee said:

If it's a worship service rather than a wedding, why on earth would anybody choose to get married in a church?????

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Click to expand...

Rock Lee said:

I'm surprised you had to ask...

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Don't be; it still hasn't been answered.

I have worked at a local church a couple of times, and my heart sinks when a prospective couple tell me that is the church where they are getting wed.

The vicar is a small scruffy man with a napoleon complex. He won't allow any photography whatsoever, with or without flash during the service, so there are no shots even from the back of the couple exchanging rings, kissing etc. If you dare to raise a camera to your eye, he has two groupies at the back who will stand in front of you preventing even high iso shots. I have managed to sneak a couple of shots before, only to have one of the groupies demanding to know if I had written permission to take pictures from the vicar. What a joke, no wonder civil ceremonies are getting so popular in this country!!