D200 vs D80

alexsunderland

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Hi,

D80 is considerred as a semi professional camera and D200 is professional what can we accheived with d200 which we cannot with D80.

Any suggestions?

Cheers
Alex
 
More pictures when its raining cats and dogs ;-)
AND it can olso create wholes in your wallet.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.
My Photos: http://www.pbase.com/fam_morck
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... at http://www.nikond80links.com/nikon-d80-features-vs-d200/
  • 5 fps really feels a whole lot faster than 3 fps
  • if you do a lot of tripod shots of closeups and macros with slow shutter speeds and low ISO, you'll appreciate the D200's MLU
  • if you're not too fussy about ISO noise at 800 and above, then the D80's superior high-ISO images won't matter to you
--
Regards, David Chin
(D.7.0. & C.P.4.5.0.0.)

Nikon D80 Links:
http://www.nikond80links.com
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikon_d80_sneak_pictures

Links to all my other sites:
http://www.flickr.com/people/davidchinphoto
 
  • if you do a lot of tripod shots of closeups and macros with slow
shutter speeds and low ISO, you'll appreciate the D200's MLU
D200 has MLU? Thats new to me. Anyhow D80 has a 0.4 sec mirror pre-release that works as MLU.

To add to the thread, D200 should be able to suffer harder use with its magnesium alloy body.

--

'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
 
  • if you're not too fussy about ISO noise at 800 and above, then
the D80's superior high-ISO images won't matter to you
Is there a dpreview-like review with carefully controlled comparison that takes into account sharpness and looks at the whole picture available yet or just a few sites in china snapping off pictures at high ISO?

Was RAW to RAW compared yet?

Wait for the "good" reviews before assuming that.
 
... and powers of observation are all that's needed to draw a conclusion - this is not rocket science.

Even DPReview does not do controlled testing of high-ISO capabiliities - at least, not to the extent of the image series you find on the Japanese sites. We get some tiny crops of coins, a noise chart and a few words from Mr Askey and that's it.
Is there a dpreview-like review with carefully controlled
comparison that takes into account sharpness and looks at the whole
picture available yet or just a few sites in china snapping off
pictures at high ISO?

Was RAW to RAW compared yet?

Wait for the "good" reviews before assuming that.
--
Regards, David Chin
(D.7.0. & C.P.4.5.0.0.)

Nikon D80 Links:
http://www.nikond80links.com
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikon_d80_sneak_pictures

Links to all my other sites:
http://www.flickr.com/people/davidchinphoto
 
... and powers of observation are all that's needed to draw a
conclusion - this is not rocket science.

Even DPReview does not do controlled testing of high-ISO
capabiliities - at least, not to the extent of the image series you
find on the Japanese sites. We get some tiny crops of coins, a
noise chart and a few words from Mr Askey and that's it.
So, what reviews would you recommend that are better than Phil's?

I peronsally find the analysis offered by Phil and DPreview and other sites like imaging resource to be top notch. But I guess that's just me.

--
JC Mason
 
For me:
=====

And I emphasize for me , Phil's reviews are nice to read and are certainly comprehensive with regards to details on features and specs of the camera.

But, the value of DPReview, for me , is not really in the reviews, but actually goes far beyond that. It is in reading the forums extensively , especially the debates, the 100% crops, the full-sized images, the "my camera is better than yours" posts, that actually help me in my purchase decisions.

Of course, this approach won't work for everyone, as who wants to sit in front of the computer everyday, combing through post after useless post just for a few nuggets?

And to be honest, Phil's review on its own does not tell you much about the camera's day-to-day capabilities. Yes, do view the charts, but then, augment that by looking at full-sized images and comments from other sites too - they present an alternate take on things, and very often, those angles are not present in Phil's reviews. What do you think of the colour out of the camera? What do you think about the character of the noise in the images - when taking a daytime shot; when taking a night scene? Are you the sort who likes to fiddle around with the settings or are you the kind that prefers the camera to make the decision - in that case, which camera gives the most pleasing images on Auto?

For the Potential Camera Buyer
===================

So, my tip is this. Read through as many previews as you can, from DPreview.com and other sites. Look also at the sample images from other sites - look at them full-sized. For example, there is one shot with the 400D + 17-85 of a flower at f/8 that is not impressive for sharpness at all - so, list down the question or doubt in your notes - was it the fault of the camera? or the 17-85 (my answer would be the 17-85)? or the photographer. And then, post a thread on the appropriate forum, in a polite manner, and as comprehensive as possible, as to which camera is best suited for your needs.

Eg:

"I've done my initial research on the D80 vs 400D and would appreciate addtitional input. Being uninterested in postprocessing, and only taking family snapshots, with the built-in flash if necessary, what camera would you recommend? I also have only $xxxx.xx to spend. Your thoughts are welcome."

... and not
"I hear Nikon D80 trounces the 400D in features - what are your thoughts?"

You'll be surprised with the replies.
... and powers of observation are all that's needed to draw a
conclusion - this is not rocket science.

Even DPReview does not do controlled testing of high-ISO
capabiliities - at least, not to the extent of the image series you
find on the Japanese sites. We get some tiny crops of coins, a
noise chart and a few words from Mr Askey and that's it.
So, what reviews would you recommend that are better than Phil's?
I peronsally find the analysis offered by Phil and DPreview and
other sites like imaging resource to be top notch. But I guess
that's just me.

--
JC Mason
--
Regards, David Chin
(D.7.0. & C.P.4.5.0.0.)

Nikon D80 Links:
http://www.nikond80links.com
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikon_d80_sneak_pictures

Links to all my other sites:
http://www.flickr.com/people/davidchinphoto
 
As a frequent voyeur and sometimes poster, I felt prompted to acknowledge David Chin's contributions to this and other forums. Always reasonable, insightful and worthwhile. David - thank you for your contributions. Oh yeah, and the pics...
 
... and powers of observation are all that's needed to draw a
conclusion - this is not rocket science.
Actually, yes, it is...

For instance, if you compare JPEG, you only compare noise reduction algorithms. But we know that off-camera noise reduction performed on a NEF is way better than in-camera noise reduction. You simply can't compare the processing power inside a camera that must fully process, noise reduction included, a picture in less than a second to the processing power of a dual-core PC with 2Gb of RAM spending several seconds doing only noise reduction!

Besides, even JPEG noise reduction can cheat. A French magazine (which usually relies on DxO to do unpartial testing) had to recalibrate its whole noise reduction evaluation because of the D200 - the camera just produced images that complete sidetracked their evaluation software.

True noise level should be compared on RAW. And then, you have to make sure the RAW processing software does not sneak in some noise reduction. Then, you have to evaluate the noise pattern to see what you can make of it. Is it easy to remove by noise processing? Is the noise pattern pleasing (i.e. grain like)? Do you lose a lot of dynamic or detail by going to higher ISO?

That's a lot of parameter to take into account. If you post-process, you're not looking simply for the least amount of noise, but for the noise that will be easier to remove during post-process!
 
... you're correct, of course.

I'm merely speaking from viewing full-sized High ISO images taken with the D200 myself (heck, I've been viewing D200 pics since it was first announced) vs the numerous D80 ones that are now floating around. If in the end the D80 does turn out to be a complete dud in the noise department (in every sense of the word - chroma, luminance, detail), I'll eat my words. I'll even be willing to take on a small USD1.00 wager, now, that the D80 will indeed be better than the D200 - payment via Paypal :-)

The original post was D200 vs D80, and I'm presenting my assessment, my opinion. FWIW, my buddy and I have many debates on noise from this camera vs that camera, and we can't agree on the conclusion even when we're seated together staring at the same computer screen - so, whether anyone takes my post seriously or not, I have no idea; but, read that bit about the wager that I've just mentioned :-)

--
Regards, David Chin
(D.7.0. & C.P.4.5.0.0.)

Nikon D80 Links:
http://www.nikond80links.com
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikon_d80_sneak_pictures

Links to all my other sites:
http://www.flickr.com/people/davidchinphoto
 
Metering with via reversing ring? Could you please elaborate - doesn't metering require some aperture-synch-lever-thingy between the lens and the body - sorry, I'm not familiar with the correct terms.

Thanks!
In addition to the things David mentioned:

D200 can still meter with older MF lenses. It can also meter
with Reversed lenses (via reversing ring).

--
http://www.pbase.com/rboles
--
Regards, David Chin
(D.7.0. & C.P.4.5.0.0.)

Nikon D80 Links:
http://www.nikond80links.com
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikon_d80_sneak_pictures

Links to all my other sites:
http://www.flickr.com/people/davidchinphoto
 
Actually, I don't really see how one camera can be better than the other at the CCD level : the D80 and the D200 share the same CDD after all!

So, the comparison will be only based on the in-camera algorithm. And there, I have a sure winner : Noise Ninja or Neat Image is probably better. ;)

Besides, the D200 has several noise reduction settings. I'm not sure about the D80. On the D200, if you're doing anything at high ISO, the best setting is none! No in-camera noise-reduction (less noise but loss of details and artefacts), no compression (NEF) or litte (JPEG Fine + Quality) and noise-reduction done in post-processing. Unless Nikon somehow managed to pack Noise Ninja or Neat Image in the D80, along with a lot of RAM and an Athlon 64 to power it, I don't see how this could be any different on the D80. Unless the D80 does not let you turn off noise-reduction - and then, the D80 is a clear loser!
 
... a slightly different sensor to the D200, according to this gentleman:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=19767231
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=19774441

I've those links bookmarked, because I've gone through his posts on astrophotography, and also his website, where it was shown that the D50 has clear noise advantages over the D70s - all the comparisons were in RAW, and it seems his claims have some credibility:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=19774685

Regarding the use of NI or NN vs JPG from the camera, I'd be interested if you could point me to posts where a comparison was done, because the ones I saw just showcased different versions of NR imperfections - I don't recall anyone showing the requisite skill in performing his / her own NR and matching the output to the High-ISO JPG straight from the camera.

--
Regards, David Chin
(D.7.0. & C.P.4.5.0.0.)

Nikon D80 Links:
http://www.nikond80links.com
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/nikon_d80_sneak_pictures

Links to all my other sites:
http://www.flickr.com/people/davidchinphoto
 
... a slightly different sensor to the D200, according to this
gentleman:
I was aware of the difference in the number of data paths to extract the data faster on the D200. I was not aware this could have an impact on the noise level however.
Regarding the use of NI or NN vs JPG from the camera, I'd be
interested if you could point me to posts where a comparison was
done
I don't have any post like this bookmarked.

This is just common sense. Image processing is processor and RAM intensive. That's two things the processors in cameras lack. Besides, camera need to be responsive, this means that image processing must be done in "realtime". That's another clear advantage on the PC side.

So, any algorithm that would achieve good results in a camera could be duplicated on a PC, only with more processing power allowing for better precision and more iterations - and in the end better results.

It's the same with d-lighting. Seeing the time it takes to do the quality version in Nikon Capture, I doubt the in-camera version will achieve similar results in the same amount of time (since it's not real time in the D80).
 

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