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Purchasing a DVD Camcorder for Mac

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5Gustys

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Does anyone have experience with DVD camcoders? Looking for a good camcorder to tape sporting events (In-door and out-door). I am in the market to purchase a camcorder that will easily download into MAC for editing. I have read many sites that indicate that USB will not work and that you need firewire to download. is this an essential capability for the camera to offer? Looking for good advice.
 
I'm looking at the new Canon HV-10. It looks like pretty amazing technology. Shoots in HDV format and has image stabalization and an amazing auto focus system.

Johnny
 
Repeat after me: I need a mini-DV camcorder. I need a mini-DV camcorder. If you intend to edit this footage, you need a mini-DV camcorder. You could get a full-size DV camcorder but they start at around $4000! Any DV camcorder is going to have firewire. Firewire is required to stream the video. Although USB, in very rare cases, can stream video, it was never designed for it as Firewire was. Any other format camera of camera, such as recording to DVD, is asking for trouble. Take DVD, it records material as MPEG-2, NOT DV. Editing MPEG-2 requires third party "translation" software and results in loss of quality. HDV is it's own can of worms and I personally wouldn't go there yet. One good reason: you can't even burn a HD DVD yet (think HD DVD or Blu-Ray burning). Another reason, unless you are using FCP, the HDV will be translated into AIC: Apples Intermediate Codec for editing; which again, has it's own set of obstacles. Do yourself a favor and stick with mini-DV. Learn the ins and outs of editing and burning DVDs so that when you want to upgrade, you know what to look for!

Mike
 
5Gustys said:
Does anyone have experience with DVD camcoders? Looking for a good
camcorder to tape sporting events (In-door and out-door).
Click to expand...
As I do video for a living, all I can tell you is: Rule 1: forget DVD camcorders, forget DVD camcorders and most importantly: forget DVD camcorders; Rule 2: Same for USB (its sustained throughput is insufficient). Besides DVD recorders in camcorders being a bad idea in the first place, using something that has a moving laser for sports is even worse.
5Gustys said:
I am in
the market to purchase a camcorder that will easily download into
MAC for editing.
Click to expand...
Could you give an idea about your budget? I can recommend you anything between USD 250 and USD 80,000. A good consumer camcorder can be had for about 400 USD. What you need for editing on a Mac is a recorder that records DV and has a Firewire (aka iLink) interface, most consumer models will record on mini DV tapes. Forget models that record MPEG 2 or 4. Also do not buy micro models. Panning with a camcorder is not easy - even with a tripod, with miniature devices it is impossible.
5Gustys said:
I have read many sites that indicate that USB
will not work and that you need firewire to download. is this an
essential capability for the camera to offer? Looking for good
advice.
Click to expand...
Yes it is essential.

Cheers,
Uwe
 
Yes, please don't buy neither HDD, neither DVD Camcorder and even your choice is SD or HD.

Only DV or HDV, using the standard DV tape offers you the opportunity to work with iMovie via FireWire or iLink.

I would strongly recommend to you the latest SONY HDV HDR HC 3 camcorder : true HD, fantastic 35 mm like image quality, unlimited and cheap storage.

HDD is not safe enough to record, neither is DVD. Too catch HD with the too latest, you will have to deal with mpeg 4 format witch has nothing to do with DV format : this means : no titling, no effects. In HD the DVD camcorder will record 12 minutes per DVD abd those DVD won't be impossible to read without a BlueRay Recorder. The video quality of SD HDD or DVD camcorder is worst than DV SD : forget it.

I bought HDV, I'm editing with iMovie, I record to HDV tape to save HD quality, waiting for the perfect HD disc recorder : HD DVD ou BlueRay … I also make some transfert to "ordinary" DVD for distribution. HDV is THE video experience you were waiting for 10 years since DV first hit the market.
 
Uwe, I'd be interested in your recommendations for under $1000US. I had been looking at the Panasonic GS-500, any thoughts?

Ron
uwe_r said:
Could you give an idea about your budget? I can recommend you
anything between USD 250 and USD 80,000. A good consumer camcorder
can be had for about 400 USD. What you need for editing on a Mac is
a recorder that records DV and has a Firewire (aka iLink)
interface, most consumer models will record on mini DV tapes.
Forget models that record MPEG 2 or 4. Also do not buy micro
models. Panning with a camcorder is not easy - even with a tripod,
with miniature devices it is impossible.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/loonbay7
 
I have a 6 year old JVC camcorder, a mini DV, that records to tapes. I got it ahead of the arrival of my son, but have never really used it much beyond the first few months for several reasons:

1. lack of PC time/capability for editing eg no firewire then etc
2. tapes were frustrating - storing, changing etc
3. never got good at using it....
4. rubbish battrery life

Have been interested recently in using it again, or something similar, now I have firewire and disk space for messing around. When my iMac comes I should have everything I need, but am wondering if things have moved on beyond tape etc? Is there somewhere for a good overview or to learn - quick Google didnt help much.

The JVC is a DV X4 and is v small and portable, and fairly easy to use, but I just need to learn more.

Thanks

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigpikle/
FCAS Member #124
DSLR Division
2005 - Year of the Gear
2006 - Year of the Image
 
As everone else has told you do not get a DVD one. The other thing though is make sure what ever you get has a manual focusing ring. DO NOT GET PUSH BUTTON MANUAL FOCUS!

When you start using the camera turn autofocus off and do not use auto white balance. So make sure the camera also allows you to lock the white balance.

Then go out and buy yourself a decent mono mic. Pro's do not use stereo. Spend about £150 ($300) it will transform your movies. It is better to have a poor pic/good sound combo than great pic/poor sound combo. When you go to the cinema 70-80% of the event is the sound not the picture. Plus if you have bought mini DV instead of DVD you have saved some money so you can afford to by a decent mic. You might need to to get yourself a bracket for the mic to get it away from the sound of the motor of the camera. Old flash bracket will do.
 
Ron Geur said:
Uwe, I'd be interested in your recommendations for under $1000US.
I had been looking at the Panasonic GS-500, any thoughts?

Ron
Click to expand...
A good choice - that's exactly what I would buy in this price range (if you are not looking at high definition). Three CCDs, great lens and a good ergonomical size. It only lacks advanced manual controls, but to get these you have to spend at least 50% more and carry much more weight. It's a very nice camcorder and it fulfills the main Mac user requirements too: Firewire and it says Panasonic or Sony on the box: best way to avoid trouble.

Cheers,
Uwe
 
MiniDV is still recorded on tape. Don't get a DVD camcorder and I'd stay away from hard drive camcorders for now too. You can do more research at http://www.camcorderinfo.com
Bigpikle said:
I have a 6 year old JVC camcorder, a mini DV, that records to
tapes. I got it ahead of the arrival of my son, but have never
really used it much beyond the first few months for several reasons:

1. lack of PC time/capability for editing eg no firewire then etc
2. tapes were frustrating - storing, changing etc
3. never got good at using it....
4. rubbish battrery life

Have been interested recently in using it again, or something
similar, now I have firewire and disk space for messing around.
When my iMac comes I should have everything I need, but am
wondering if things have moved on beyond tape etc? Is there
somewhere for a good overview or to learn - quick Google didnt help
much.

The JVC is a DV X4 and is v small and portable, and fairly easy to
use, but I just need to learn more.

Thanks

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigpikle/
FCAS Member #124
DSLR Division
2005 - Year of the Gear
2006 - Year of the Image
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/laphotog
 
Bigpikle said:
Have been interested recently in using it again, or something
similar, now I have firewire and disk space for messing around.
When my iMac comes I should have everything I need, but am
wondering if things have moved on beyond tape etc? Is there
somewhere for a good overview or to learn - quick Google didnt help
much.
Click to expand...
Well things have moved on a lot in several areas:
  • Consumer camcorders have never been that good and if you do not need high definition you can get a very decent camera for below USD 500 today. Stick with Mini-DV tape unless you do video commercially - it gets too expensive otherwise.
  • The quality of high definition is already amazing. The consumer HDV standard is gorgeous, unless you try to capture things that move fast... the compression is too high for that and you get a lot of artifacts. For architecture, landscapes, interviews, product display etc it is great. Since we bought the first HDV camera the percentage of standard definition wanted by clients went down to less than 20 percent. All the equipment paid for itself within less than 3 months...
  • There are new storage technologies that do work, DVD is not one of them, but they are costly. Most (semi)professionell camcorders will work with Firestore drives and they are priceless - these are Firewire hard disks that store in real time (in parallel with tape or instead of) in the right format for your editing software (e.g. QT for FinalCut), no problems with condensation (like tapes) and fast - a little expensive for private use though. Even more impressive is Panasonics flash RAM based P2 technology.
Bottom line - for consumers it is still tape, tape and tape. Instead of looking for alternative storage mechanisms, rather look for camcorders with good lenses and a good wide angle out-of-the-box, good low-light performance, support for real microphones , good manual controls, manual zoom rings and ideally manual focus. Then dive into editing... it is amazing what even non-pros can do today. iMovie is good for a start, but look at e.g. FinalCut Express for a real steal (it even comes with titling and sound editing software). With good digital footage and a third-party de-interlacing filter for less than 100 bucks you can get almost film-like results.

Cheers,
Uwe
 
I hate to play devil's advocate, but the 3-CCDs of the Panny don't amount to much... I have one. The CCDs are too small and record too much noise. I would opt for a single CCD Sony at the same price point. I have an old Sony Digital 8 that records a better image than my 3-CCD Panasonic.

Mike
 
ArtZAngel said:
I hate to play devil's advocate, but the 3-CCDs of the Panny don't
amount to much... I have one. The CCDs are too small and record too
much noise. I would opt for a single CCD Sony at the same price
point. I have an old Sony Digital 8 that records a better image
than my 3-CCD Panasonic.
Click to expand...
Hmm, actually we were finally buying the GS500 for my girlfriend - as I just had the opposite impression. What Sony model do you mean? We were testing the DCR-HC94E and it was terrible. Poor lens, bad low-light performance... Anything better in this price range (besides the portrait models I mean)?

Cheers,
Uwe
 
Thanks Uwe

Been tyring to find the specs of my old JVC to see how they compare with the current budget consumer cameras, but so far not found much I can compare. I lack a zoom ring or easy to use MF mechanism, but the auto systems aren't too bad, if a little slow..... The obvious area of issue is WB, with interiors presenting real colour issues.

I need to re-learn what this camera can do, and see if making movies is something to do again. If so, I guess an upgrade will be in my future - like the idea of HD at some point as long as it comes with access to HD DVD recording etc.....

Will check out Camcorderinfo for more stuff.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigpikle/
FCAS Member #124
DSLR Division
2005 - Year of the Gear
2006 - Year of the Image
 
Let's see, the Panasonic I have is the PV-GS150. My Sony is a TVR8 (old Digital 8)?? I am going off memory here, it is currently on loan to my brother-in-law. I can tell you it is about 6 years old. However, it records a better image than my Panasonic. Maybe it's a fluke but you see the same thing in digital cameras: the smaller the sensor the more noise is recorded.

Just my experience,
Mike
 
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