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Carl Zeiss
- Thread starter Kelcey
- Start date
xsivone
Forum Enthusiast
Buying a camera with the Carl Zeiss lens is like comparing home speakers that are THX certified. The highest standards of quality. Guaranteed.
I only wonder why is that the greatest SLR manufacturers don't use those...I mean...how dare those Nikon guys for example charge 500$ for their simple Nikkor piece of glass,while there is a whole camera which uses a CARL ZEIS LENS costs just about that...
--All the best,Michael
Lewis Day
Well-known member
Carl Zeiss was a German Sientist of the 19th century that developed some of the best optics in the world and that company continues to do so. You can get more information of their accomplishments at:
http://www.zeiss.com/us/
eddie king11
Member
Carpe Diem
Well-known member
Driving by the Daewoo manufacturing plant in Mexicali, Mexico with a bad hangover this summer reminded me of yet another reason to hate daewoo.
Daewoo...LOL
-Ian--'Build a man a fire and keep him warm for the night, set a man afire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.'-AnonymousTastless humor inspired by the famous 'teach a man to fish' quote.
Daewoo...LOL
-Ian--'Build a man a fire and keep him warm for the night, set a man afire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.'-AnonymousTastless humor inspired by the famous 'teach a man to fish' quote.
I assume your joking here. True, Zeis lenses are among the best in the world but Nikkor lenses are top quality professional equipment. Many pro photographers swear by Nikon equipment & lenses. I'd put a real Nikkor (not the ones in their digicams) up against a Zeis any day, but for now the Sony's with the Zeis lenses have to be the best prosumer deal out there.
Also, I'd be interested if someone out there could answer this but I'll bet that Sony probably manufactures the lenses under licence from Zeis. I doubt that (with the quantities of cameras they sell) Zeis makes & supplies the lenses themselves.
As far as the THX certified speakers ... LOL !!! Don't even compare home theater junk with real hi-end audio. Go to a hi-end audio showroom & listen to some systems with some of the better B&W, JMLab or Theil's. Even something like the Paradigm Reference (Canadian) speakers wihich are only 'B' rated will blow away the 'THX' stuff.
Jimmy Chen
Senior Member
Because it is always cheaper for companies to mfg their own lens. Nikon is actually a pretty good brand when it comes to lens.
As for the Carl Zeiss on the Sony, it is only a CZ by design and association, by the lens is actually made in Japan, not Germany, so in name you are getting a well known name, but it isnt the real product per say. No different then those Sony walkman that is made in China when you buy a Sony and expects it to be made in Japan.
jc
Carpe Diem
Well-known member
Zeiss on the Sony:
German engineering.
Japanese manufacturing (to Zeiss QA standards).
Not a bad combination IMHO.
-Ian
--'Build a man a fire and keep him warm for the night, set a man afire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.'-AnonymousTastless humor inspired by the famous 'teach a man to fish' quote.
German engineering.
Japanese manufacturing (to Zeiss QA standards).
Not a bad combination IMHO.
-Ian
--'Build a man a fire and keep him warm for the night, set a man afire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.'-AnonymousTastless humor inspired by the famous 'teach a man to fish' quote.
Jimmy Chen
Senior Member
That's what I suspected. I've had Sony TV's for years & noticed a drastic fall off in quality some years ago when the moved manufacturing of their sets to Mexico. My parents had a Trinitron (made in Japan) that has to be 20 years old. Still perfect picture. Too bad the digicams don't have a real Zeis lens, but then I suppose the price would be 50% higher for the cameras
Wes Keys
Leading Member
It's my understanding that the lenses, though made by Sony, are inspected bt Zeiss QA people. I can't see any signifigant difference in sharpness of my 707 lens, and the Zeiss lenses I have for my Rollei 6003.
Wes
Wes
--Wes
This subject has come up several times and each time someone makes the claim, as you did Jimmy, that the Carl Zeiss Company does not manufacturer the lenses for Sony cameras, I can only point them to Zeiss itself.
Zeiss will only officially say that the lenses are manufactured by Carl Zeiss in "association" with Sony.
However, The Carl Zeiss lenses for the Contax camera are made in "association" with Yashica—and no one has ever claimed that those are not "made by Zeiss."
In 1957, after the demise of the Zeiss Ikon cameras, CZ packed up and moved an entire lens manufacturing plant to Japan. Zeiss officially states that the Contax lenses are made there. They do not say where the Sony lenses are made.
However, I can say with reasonable assurance that the glass (and resultant lens elements), coatings, design and inspection are all by Carl Zeiss.
As an aside: At the end of 1999 Zeiss had manufactured 8 million lenses—one million of them for Sony. By December 2001 that number had climbed to 5 million lenses for sony cameras.
-Ed (If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck...) W.
http://www.pbase.com/ewaldorph/dpreview
Sony F505v (with Canon 500D +2 lens for macros)
(;¬ þ)
Zeiss will only officially say that the lenses are manufactured by Carl Zeiss in "association" with Sony.
However, The Carl Zeiss lenses for the Contax camera are made in "association" with Yashica—and no one has ever claimed that those are not "made by Zeiss."
In 1957, after the demise of the Zeiss Ikon cameras, CZ packed up and moved an entire lens manufacturing plant to Japan. Zeiss officially states that the Contax lenses are made there. They do not say where the Sony lenses are made.
However, I can say with reasonable assurance that the glass (and resultant lens elements), coatings, design and inspection are all by Carl Zeiss.
As an aside: At the end of 1999 Zeiss had manufactured 8 million lenses—one million of them for Sony. By December 2001 that number had climbed to 5 million lenses for sony cameras.
-Ed (If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck...) W.
http://www.pbase.com/ewaldorph/dpreview
Sony F505v (with Canon 500D +2 lens for macros)
(;¬ þ)
Jimmy Chen
Senior Member
Ed, you may want to re-read my statement. I said the Sony CZ lens is made in Japan and not in Germany. No where in my post I said it is not made by CZ. Btw, that info I extracted from the F505V review, not your post.
As for quality and price, I used Sony itself as a perfect example of why there can be two pricing for a Sony Walkman when one compares the made in China vs made in Japan. Can we really say the quality is the same? If it is the same quality product, then why would Sony sell the made in China one at a much lower price?
This is no different then why people thinks Japanese made Honda is better then American made Honda.
jc
bluedot
Leading Member
Hi.
One must always be aware of the potential "pitfalls" one may face when buying a brand name. Zeiss, Nikon, and Canon all produce very high quality lenses, but each of these makers also make low-end lenses for the consumer market. The pros can afford high-grade (expensive lenses) because A. Their firm/magazine/company pays for them or B. The work they do with the camera itself pays for their equipment.
It is a whole different ball game if you are a non-pro who does not make money from photography.
While the Zeiss on the Sony (the fact that it is manufactured in Japan rather than Germany notwithstanding) may be a "good" lens, it cannot truly compare to top-of-the-line $1K plus lenses from any of the manufacturers listed above. Nor should it try to, since we are talking about two completely different markets and users.
Here's why:
The F707 Zeiss has:
1. Severe barrel-distortion at wide angle.
2. Vignetting at wide angle.
3. While pretty wide, a max aperture that decreases with zoom.
4. No image stabilization.
5. No USM (ultra-sonic motor) technology as seen on mid to high end Canon lenses and some Nikkor lenses.
On the plus side:
1. Lens is pretty sharp (less so at the corners).
2. Lens does not change length with zoom. Only internal elements move. This "feature" is very desirable and is often seen on high-end lenses (prevents dust from entering lens mechanism).
I would really like to see someone do an MTF test on bulit in lenses (like the Zeiss on the F707) to see how they compare to SLR lenses like Canon, Nikkor and indeed Zeiss.
Just my 2 yen worth.
bluedot.
One must always be aware of the potential "pitfalls" one may face when buying a brand name. Zeiss, Nikon, and Canon all produce very high quality lenses, but each of these makers also make low-end lenses for the consumer market. The pros can afford high-grade (expensive lenses) because A. Their firm/magazine/company pays for them or B. The work they do with the camera itself pays for their equipment.
It is a whole different ball game if you are a non-pro who does not make money from photography.
While the Zeiss on the Sony (the fact that it is manufactured in Japan rather than Germany notwithstanding) may be a "good" lens, it cannot truly compare to top-of-the-line $1K plus lenses from any of the manufacturers listed above. Nor should it try to, since we are talking about two completely different markets and users.
Here's why:
The F707 Zeiss has:
1. Severe barrel-distortion at wide angle.
2. Vignetting at wide angle.
3. While pretty wide, a max aperture that decreases with zoom.
4. No image stabilization.
5. No USM (ultra-sonic motor) technology as seen on mid to high end Canon lenses and some Nikkor lenses.
On the plus side:
1. Lens is pretty sharp (less so at the corners).
2. Lens does not change length with zoom. Only internal elements move. This "feature" is very desirable and is often seen on high-end lenses (prevents dust from entering lens mechanism).
I would really like to see someone do an MTF test on bulit in lenses (like the Zeiss on the F707) to see how they compare to SLR lenses like Canon, Nikkor and indeed Zeiss.
Just my 2 yen worth.
bluedot.
bluedot
Leading Member
Because labor in China is cheaper than in Japan.
It has nothing to do with country of production. As long as quality control is the same, specs are the same, and material used is the same, then the two products are identical (afterall, we are not talking about hand-made items here. The production process is completely automated).
The Honda analogy does not apply here because car manufacturers tweak the specs to suit among other things the climate, geography (hilly or flat) and fuel standrads of the country of use.
bluedot.
None of the above, how about an Audi S4?
Bluedot,
You correctly made the distinction between the 2 classes of lenses: Pro & non-pro.
What about prosumer lenses like F707, G2 & CP 5000 as much comparison has been made between them. I have seen a lot of pictures about each of them and in terms of ability to resolve fine details* , I would put them in the following order, the best first:
1) CZ of F707
2) CP 5000
3) G2
Any other opinion?
John
You correctly made the distinction between the 2 classes of lenses: Pro & non-pro.
What about prosumer lenses like F707, G2 & CP 5000 as much comparison has been made between them. I have seen a lot of pictures about each of them and in terms of ability to resolve fine details* , I would put them in the following order, the best first:
1) CZ of F707
2) CP 5000
3) G2
Any other opinion?
John
As has been pointed out in this thread, the Zeiss lenses clearly are designed, QC'd and produced by Zeiss in Asia. Does Sony physically manufacture the lens? I think not. I base this statement on the following: one of our forum members, Rodger Carter, put the question to the company (Zeiss), and received the following response, which you can read for yourself...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=332956
The issue on this site has been whether the lens is this same as can be found in the Epson, Canon and other cameras in the 3x/prosumer category. Mr. Askey questions this fact in his review of the S70 and S75, since the front of the lens physically looks a lot like the lenses in the aforementioned cameras. Do a search in the Open Talk Forum or the News Forum and you'll find a thread wherein Phil responds to the letter Rodger received from Zeiss. Bear in mind that the letter is dated (it goes back to the time when the S70 was a new camera). Phil does not seem to question the Zeiss lens in the F505/F505V/F707 series, just the S70/S75/S85 series, mainly because of the similarity of appearance. But can one really draw a conclusion that the lens is not really a Zeiss lens simply because it resembles the other lenses on the outside? I think not, especially since you'd have to tear the camera apart, then somehow look at the glass coating, and since I'm both not smart enough or wealthy enough to do so, I'll pass.
But there are some in this thread that don't even question the veracity of the lens' origin based on the similarity of appearance to the other lenses...you guys are questioning it simply because you suspect fraud at some level, or marketing rhetoric. Maybe Sony is using the name but not really delivering on the goods. I think it is safe to say that the Zeiss optics in Sony digicams and camcorders are indeed designed, manufactured and inspected by Zeiss in Asia. Is this a problem? Do you want Zeiss optics made in Germany? Well, then buy a Hasselblad.
On a separate note...why would some think that a high-tech product made at a remote production facility far away from a company's HQ is somehow inferior? This strikes me as somewhat unwarrented (perhaps even xenophobic). Reminds me of the time when people lamented the fact that CDs weren't made in the US. Why? People at the time feared that the Japanese were taking over our economy in retaliation for their defeat in WWII. Fact is, the Japanese invented the compact disk, so why shouldn't it be made there. So now even the Japanese use foreign (other Asain) locations to manufacture their products. What's wrong with that? In many cases, it makes sense...the Chinese are the BEST plastics manufactureres in the world. They're pretty dang good at micro-electronics, too. If micro-electronic circuitry can be manufactured in places like Singapore, Tawain, Mexico or China at the SAME level of quality as they can be manufactured in Europe, Japan or the United States, why not make them in these other places? Why is a Sony TV of inferior quality if some or all of the manufacturing is done in China? If Sony is willing to put their name on it, and they control the production faciility, then I would think that the quality would be of equal value.
To be fair, what might really be happening is that Sony may allow a more budget line of electronics to be manufactured in the first place, and those might just be made in China (or Mexico, or anywhere but Japan). You buy this product, see that it's made in China, and immediately make the connection with "made in China"-Sony products are of inferior quality. What if, however, you were to buy the latest, top-end Sony TV direct from Sony and were also to find out that it too was made in China? Would you ignore this fact? How do you reconcile this with the other, inferior product?
If you don't like Globalization for other reasons...environmental, fair labor standards, loss of jobs in your home country, etc...I can respect that (though I may disagree). But please don't dismiss foreing-made products as of inferior quality simply because they're made somewhere other than your home country.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike M - who doesn't care where his S75 was made
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=332956
The issue on this site has been whether the lens is this same as can be found in the Epson, Canon and other cameras in the 3x/prosumer category. Mr. Askey questions this fact in his review of the S70 and S75, since the front of the lens physically looks a lot like the lenses in the aforementioned cameras. Do a search in the Open Talk Forum or the News Forum and you'll find a thread wherein Phil responds to the letter Rodger received from Zeiss. Bear in mind that the letter is dated (it goes back to the time when the S70 was a new camera). Phil does not seem to question the Zeiss lens in the F505/F505V/F707 series, just the S70/S75/S85 series, mainly because of the similarity of appearance. But can one really draw a conclusion that the lens is not really a Zeiss lens simply because it resembles the other lenses on the outside? I think not, especially since you'd have to tear the camera apart, then somehow look at the glass coating, and since I'm both not smart enough or wealthy enough to do so, I'll pass.
But there are some in this thread that don't even question the veracity of the lens' origin based on the similarity of appearance to the other lenses...you guys are questioning it simply because you suspect fraud at some level, or marketing rhetoric. Maybe Sony is using the name but not really delivering on the goods. I think it is safe to say that the Zeiss optics in Sony digicams and camcorders are indeed designed, manufactured and inspected by Zeiss in Asia. Is this a problem? Do you want Zeiss optics made in Germany? Well, then buy a Hasselblad.
On a separate note...why would some think that a high-tech product made at a remote production facility far away from a company's HQ is somehow inferior? This strikes me as somewhat unwarrented (perhaps even xenophobic). Reminds me of the time when people lamented the fact that CDs weren't made in the US. Why? People at the time feared that the Japanese were taking over our economy in retaliation for their defeat in WWII. Fact is, the Japanese invented the compact disk, so why shouldn't it be made there. So now even the Japanese use foreign (other Asain) locations to manufacture their products. What's wrong with that? In many cases, it makes sense...the Chinese are the BEST plastics manufactureres in the world. They're pretty dang good at micro-electronics, too. If micro-electronic circuitry can be manufactured in places like Singapore, Tawain, Mexico or China at the SAME level of quality as they can be manufactured in Europe, Japan or the United States, why not make them in these other places? Why is a Sony TV of inferior quality if some or all of the manufacturing is done in China? If Sony is willing to put their name on it, and they control the production faciility, then I would think that the quality would be of equal value.
To be fair, what might really be happening is that Sony may allow a more budget line of electronics to be manufactured in the first place, and those might just be made in China (or Mexico, or anywhere but Japan). You buy this product, see that it's made in China, and immediately make the connection with "made in China"-Sony products are of inferior quality. What if, however, you were to buy the latest, top-end Sony TV direct from Sony and were also to find out that it too was made in China? Would you ignore this fact? How do you reconcile this with the other, inferior product?
If you don't like Globalization for other reasons...environmental, fair labor standards, loss of jobs in your home country, etc...I can respect that (though I may disagree). But please don't dismiss foreing-made products as of inferior quality simply because they're made somewhere other than your home country.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike M - who doesn't care where his S75 was made
R
Ron Parr
Guest
The S85 tops the G2:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong2/page19.asp
The numbers at the imaging resource are even more strongly in favor of the S85.
--Ron ParrFAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.htmlGallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
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