I've had my eye on the D200 for some time. It's a little pricey and I think the camera may be more camera than I can handle, so I was excited when the D80 was released. I'm a little disappointed with the slower shutter speeds, but really need to get a better understanding of the "lack of an electronic shutter." What does this really mean?
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D80 - lack of an electronic shutter
- Thread starter lbloch
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mironv
Veteran Member
--Electronic shutter is one that controls CCD itself there fore 1/500 sec flash synch is posible.D80 has mechanical shuter as in many and most film cameras and 1/4000 sec is as much as one will need with ISO 100.In past 14 years I have never see any light level requaiering faster shutter than 1/3000 even with f1.4. I have D70 and 1/500 sec flash synch is # 1 usefull thing this camera have to offered for me as I set D70 to shutter priaority at 1/750-1/1000 when I use longer lenses and anytime I need fill in just push a flash button and still have fast shutter with flash at 1/500. D80 1/200 synch is not that usefull but with ISO 100 is not that bed.
Mironv
Smu g mug mentions in signatures are not allowed due to 'account code' commercial marketing
So How the heck I can place a picture Phill??????
Mironv
Smu g mug mentions in signatures are not allowed due to 'account code' commercial marketing
So How the heck I can place a picture Phill??????
johnnymcclung
Senior Member
Well i guess the question is then, what shutter speed is needed to stop a bullet?? anyone know?
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'Procrastinate now, don't put it off.'
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'Procrastinate now, don't put it off.'
C. Lewis
Forum Enthusiast
Depends on the "bullet".
I've read that to "freeze" an air rifle dart (slow speed of 100 feet per second) that you'll need a shutter speed of 1/250,000 of a second.
Bullets are faster...
FYI, here's the formula.
size of smallest detail within subject
T = --------------------------------------
K x velocity of subject x cos A
Information swiped from:
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-high-speed.html
--
Craig
I've read that to "freeze" an air rifle dart (slow speed of 100 feet per second) that you'll need a shutter speed of 1/250,000 of a second.
Bullets are faster...
FYI, here's the formula.
size of smallest detail within subject
T = --------------------------------------
K x velocity of subject x cos A
Information swiped from:
http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-high-speed.html
--
Craig
D
David Martin
Guest
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Regards,
DaveMart
'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment
Regards,
DaveMart
'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment
For me the most significant difference between an electronic and full mechanical shutter is the faster flash sync speed of the electronic shutter. This allows one to use fill flash at greater ranges on bright days.
It also allows one to use higher shutter speeds with the full flash power for augmenting the light at indoor or night sports.
see this and other posts in the thread
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=19564047
The D200 and D80 support FP sync which allows you to use the flash at any speed but at greatly reduced output.
Some have noted the D70 is more subject to blooming due to the electonic shutter.
Theoretically an electronic shuttered CCD does not have the same level of dynamic range that a comparible non-electonic shuttered CCD. (For a given pixel density.) This is because a lot of the sensor surface area for the electronic shutter CCD has to be devoted to the electronic shutter as opposed to gathering light.
see this
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=19568960
So many choices....
Whether it's an issue for you or not depends on the type of photography you plan to do with it.
Steve
It also allows one to use higher shutter speeds with the full flash power for augmenting the light at indoor or night sports.
see this and other posts in the thread
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=19564047
The D200 and D80 support FP sync which allows you to use the flash at any speed but at greatly reduced output.
Some have noted the D70 is more subject to blooming due to the electonic shutter.
Theoretically an electronic shuttered CCD does not have the same level of dynamic range that a comparible non-electonic shuttered CCD. (For a given pixel density.) This is because a lot of the sensor surface area for the electronic shutter CCD has to be devoted to the electronic shutter as opposed to gathering light.
see this
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=19568960
So many choices....
Whether it's an issue for you or not depends on the type of photography you plan to do with it.
Steve
johnnymcclung
Senior Member
then this would be an issue for me then since I have had many of my shots suffer from blooming while using my D70s...
'Procrastinate now, don't put it off.'
--
'Procrastinate now, don't put it off.'
shaggy dog
Member
There is no shutter speed fast enough to stop a bullet. Harold Edgerton's photos were all taken on "B".
FRC
Well-known member
The D80 has an electronic shutter. Quoting the specifications at the Nikon USA site:
Shutter: Electronically-controlled vertical-travel focal plane shutter, 30 to 1/4000 sec. in steps of 1/3 or 1/2 EV, bulb
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25412
The D70s had a mechanical shutter:
Shutter: Combined mechanical and CCD electronic shutter, 30 sec to 1/8000 sec. in steps of 1/3 or 1/2 EV, bulb
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25218
The CCD senor itself actually turns off at higher shutter speeds. To quote Thom Hogan's review:
http://www.bythom.com/D70REVIEW.HTM
The D80 does have an Auto FP High-Speed Sync option. It allows higher than 1/200s flash sync with an optional Nikon speed flash, not the built in flash. It is on page 98 of the manual.
Quote from the manual of Custom Setting 25:
dirtee1
Senior Member
I think this makes some complications for outdoor fill flash photography. When you're photographing a backlit subject and you want to use fill flash to equally expose both the subject and the background, shutter speed goes a long way to affect that. For example a certain shot might work with 1/500 flash sync because the background light has less time to expose, but at 1/200, the background might get blown out if the shot is exposed for the subject.
Of course with ISO 100 (something that the nikon electronic shuttered DSLRS didn't have), it makes 1/200 the equivalent of 1/400 at ISO 200, but still that 0.01 of a second difference should make...uh....a difference.
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'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
Of course with ISO 100 (something that the nikon electronic shuttered DSLRS didn't have), it makes 1/200 the equivalent of 1/400 at ISO 200, but still that 0.01 of a second difference should make...uh....a difference.
--
'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
FRC
Well-known member
This is what the Auto FP High-Speed Sync option is for except you need a separate flash speedlight. In other words if you want flash fill at a higher shutter speed than 1/200s you use the Auto FP High-Speed option with an attached speedlight. The D80's built in flash will only sync to 1/200s.
FRC
Well-known member
Focal Plane Flash was used with flash bulbs and worked fine. 
http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/flashtec5.htm#fp2
http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/flashtec5.htm#fp2
Jola013
Senior Member
dirtee1
Senior Member
As I understand it FP Hi-speed sync also reduces flash power/exposure as the shutter speed goes up. This seems to defeat the purpose of fill flash in the scenario I have described, but I haven't tried it so I can't make any claims.
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'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
dirtee1
Senior Member
Agreed, your logic is correct. It is a general consensus on this forum, as well as Phil's opinion, that the D80 has a mechanical shutter.
'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
--
'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
No it doesn't, because you need twice the flash power at ISO 100. 1/500 flash sync at ISO 200 gives more flash reach than 1/250 at ISO 100.
Johannes
dirtee1
Senior Member
Good point. Further compounds the issue of slow sync...
'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
--
'Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments that take your breath away.' - A friend
FRC
Well-known member
There is no way around the fact that a focal plane shutter is a physical cover of the sensor or flim. They are "controlled" electronically or mechanically.
Both the D50 and D70 have a combined mechanical and CCD electronic shutter. The actual shutter is controlled mechanically. The CCD sensor enhances the mechanical shutter speeds by turning on and off for faster shutter speeds, which I learned from Thom Hogan's review.
The D80 actually has an "Electronically-controlled" vertical-travel focal plane shutter. Of course "Technical specifications are subject to change without notice."
Now I did say Electronic shutter but also gave the full correct description and I suspect you will see "Electronically Controlled" shortened to Electronic Shutter again. Just like your Electric lawnmower.
Looking a little further the exact correct term is probably "Electromagnetically controlled vertical-travel focal plane shutter," which is the description used for the D200 and D2X.
http://photography.about.com/od/basics/a/bpshutterspeed.htm
Jola013
Senior Member
FRC
Well-known member
Yes I understand this but we are talking about flash fill in. The D80 option requires a separate flash speedlight. We are also talking about the difference of 1/200s to 1/500s that the D50 and D70 have.
I also am not making any claims but that the D80 has Auto FP High-Speed Sync for Flash-fill.
Now with the D80 and a speedlight you will "probably" be able to sync for flash fill higher than 1/500s. Though as you state we will have to find out if any speedlights have the power to flash fill at the higher shutter speeds. The manual is vague.
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