New Fuji S3 Pro UVIR Any reviews available yet?

mballent

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I am interested in this camera so I can do IR photography but have not really found much online. Anyone know if it has been reviewed yet? Will it behave like the modified for UV DSLRs? Or will there still be a need for filters? TIA

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
 
it shoots well in uv and ir light spectrums.

all in fun
--
See them walking hand in hand across the bridge at midnight
Heads turning as the lights flashing out it's so bright
Then walk right out to the fourline track
There's a camera rolling on her back, on her back
And I sense the rhythm humming in a frenzy all the way down her spine
 
...and handles very similarly to the Fujifilm S3 Pro
it shoots well in uv and ir light spectrums.

all in fun
--
See them walking hand in hand across the bridge at midnight
Heads turning as the lights flashing out it's so bright
Then walk right out to the fourline track
There's a camera rolling on her back, on her back
And I sense the rhythm humming in a frenzy all the way down her spine
--
http://www.okpablo.com
 
I am interested in this camera so I can do IR photography but have
not really found much online. Anyone know if it has been reviewed
yet? Will it behave like the modified for UV DSLRs? Or will there
still be a need for filters?
I haven't physically seen one yet, but my understanding from reading the Fujifilm USA press releases & website info and talking to some Fujifilm staff is the following:
  • The camera's UV+IR-blocking filter (which in most DSLRs is also the anti-aliasing filter) has been replaced by a clear filter transparent to most of the spectrum. This is basically equivalent to the "CLR" conversion from http://burren.cx/photo/ or the "IR+visible" conversion from http://maxmax.com/ (neither of whom convert S3s though).
  • To restrict the light to UV or IR, external filters are required. In these conditions the viewfinder goes black, and you either compose with the filter off or use the S3's 30-second B&W preview mode. This is different than the conversions where the IR filter is placed behind the shutter and thus doesn't get in the way of the viewfinder.
  • Focus also needs to be checked using the preview mode. This does restrict the flexibility of handheld use somewhat. Conversions where the filter is placed behind the shutter usually involve adjusting the camera's focus so that when the visible image is in focus in the viewfinder (and in the AF system) the matching IR image is in focus on the sensor, and thus handheld use is quite flexible (although this adjustment is specific to a filter type). This is not done in the S3 Pro UVIR.
  • I'm not yet sure, but I suspect the S3 Pro UVIR is not a product from Fuji Japan: I won't be surprised to find that Fujifilm USA is sourcing S3 Pros and doing the conversion themselves.
With the above points in mind, I don't think the S3 Pro UVIR is going to be a particularly useful camera for generic IR photography. There are some specific applications for "CLR"-converted cameras though, and the S3 Pro's preview mode that uses the main imaging sensor is a nice touch.

In the interests of full disclosure: I run one of the above-mentioned conversion businesses...
 
Thank you David, it does not appear to be promising if you still have to place a filter in front, so one could still expect longer exposure times. Would be nice to have a manufacturer warranty though. Guess that I will keep an eye on the Fuji and if it does not pan out I will go with what I was planning on initially (used D70). And thanks for the full disclosure =)

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
 
One has to place filters to not have e.g. visible light in IR images and that does NOT mean that the exposure times increase significantly. The S3 is very sensitive to IR (with my converted S3 I can handhold the cam for IR images without any problems). Of course, there needs to be IR light in the scene.

It might be more difficult for UV, depending on the lens, did not try it yet, I am stilll waiting for a UV filter....
Thank you David, it does not appear to be promising if you still
have to place a filter in front, so one could still expect longer
exposure times. Would be nice to have a manufacturer warranty
though. Guess that I will keep an eye on the Fuji and if it does
not pan out I will go with what I was planning on initially (used
D70). And thanks for the full disclosure =)

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
--
Regards,
Beru



http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=83135
 
One has to place filters to not have e.g. visible light in IR
images and that does NOT mean that the exposure times increase
significantly. The S3 is very sensitive to IR (with my converted S3
I can handhold the cam for IR images without any problems). Of
course, there needs to be IR light in the scene.
It might be more difficult for UV, depending on the lens, did not
try it yet, I am stilll waiting for a UV filter....
Yes, since there is not IR & UV blocking filter over the sensor, the filter to block visible light are not making the S3 UVIR any slower, just allowing the user to choose between UV or IR.

I think I read somewhere that the UVIR model would be capable of shooting in the live preview mode (not possible with S3 Pro, unless some firmware fix is coming, but not possible with FW 2.18).

--
Osku
 
There are two really suitable filters for UV photography. However, like the specialty lenses for UV they are not cheep. From my searches and review of UV phtogrpahy you need a Baaden Venus filter or a Schott DUG-11x (UG-11x)... These are the best single filter options and will run between $600-$10000+ USD.
Thank you David, it does not appear to be promising if you still
have to place a filter in front, so one could still expect longer
exposure times. Would be nice to have a manufacturer warranty
though. Guess that I will keep an eye on the Fuji and if it does
not pan out I will go with what I was planning on initially (used
D70). And thanks for the full disclosure =)

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
--
Regards,
Beru



http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=83135
 
My understanding was that (at least on the converted cameras) one would just take the picture, having to adjust some for focus, but am not aware that they are using and filters to take the shots... I would have thought the same would hold true with this camera. Is it because it's sensitive to both UV and IR that you would need to place the filter? I thought people were just desaturating the colors in post? I am a complete newbie to this so any help is appreciated. :)

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
 
There are two really suitable filters for UV photography. However,
like the specialty lenses for UV they are not cheep. From my
searches and review of UV phtogrpahy you need a Baaden Venus filter
or a Schott DUG-11x (UG-11x)... These are the best single filter
options and will run between $600-$10000+ USD.
There's some stuff in this thread which might be of use. I should skip the first long post from me:-
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1020&thread=19529267

I think this summary is largely accurate. Joseph S. Wisniewski will definitely be able to straighten out any untruths. If I was equipping the S3 UVIR for UV photography I would start out this way:-

Investigate the Tamron 90mm macro to ascertain for sure that it lets in a fair amount of UV. Otherwise, follow the more esoteric lens selection route described by Bjorn Rorslett here:-
http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html

(Choose 'UV Colour' from the left-hand menu, scroll down and hit 'All You Ever Wanted To Know...', then item 7 from the drop-down menu).

The classic filter stack for UV is the Kodak/Wratten 18A (UV-pass/visible-cut) together with a Hot Mirror (UV+visible-pass/IR-cut). In large sizes these might run to around £300 the pair? Something of that order anyway, rather than thousands. A cheaper set-up would be to use the B+W 403 and 489 filters, which I think should work well. In my doomed attempt to record UV on a compact camera I picked up the pair (in 58mm and 67mm) for about £90 at the usual place. B+W's summaries of those filters' properties:-

"B+W 403 [Schott UG 1]

Although this dark-violet filter transmits a small amount of visible light, it completely blocks wavelengths longer than 410nm. Its application is in UV-reflection photography and for the front of UV emitting illumination in UV-fluorescent photography. Depending on the film, the filter factor is between 8 and 20.

B+W 489 [Schott KG 3]

This filter is frequently described as a heat absorbing filter because it lets the visible spectral range pass while the infrared rays from 780nm are strongly blocked. It is often used to protect IR-sensitive CCD sensors or in illumination systems."

Danny
 
That depends.

I converted it myself by just taking out the filter that sits infront of the CCD and blocks UV and IR. So, I get UV, visible and IR when not using a filter in front of the lens (and given that the lens is transmitting UV).

The new UVIRS3 has, it seems, a filter in front of the CCD that is transmitting UV, visible and IR.

Some conversions use a filter that is just transmitting IR, hence, no filter in front of the lens gives already good IR images.

See also: pink line is representing a filter that is often used in so called IR conversion.


My understanding was that (at least on the converted cameras) one
would just take the picture, having to adjust some for focus, but
am not aware that they are using and filters to take the shots...
I would have thought the same would hold true with this camera. Is
it because it's sensitive to both UV and IR that you would need to
place the filter? I thought people were just desaturating the
colors in post? I am a complete newbie to this so any help is
appreciated. :)

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
--
Regards,
Beru



http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=83135
 
(The image was actually to illustrate a point in another discussion, where it was suggested to use a "denser" IR filter in front of the lens to get even cleaner IR images, disadvantage: the photographer cannot frame the image. A filter in front of the lens that transmitts visible where the modification filter blocks, might solve this problem.)
The new UVIRS3 has, it seems, a filter in front of the CCD that is
transmitting UV, visible and IR.

Some conversions use a filter that is just transmitting IR, hence,
no filter in front of the lens gives already good IR images.

See also: pink line is representing a filter that is often used in
so called IR conversion.


My understanding was that (at least on the converted cameras) one
would just take the picture, having to adjust some for focus, but
am not aware that they are using and filters to take the shots...
I would have thought the same would hold true with this camera. Is
it because it's sensitive to both UV and IR that you would need to
place the filter? I thought people were just desaturating the
colors in post? I am a complete newbie to this so any help is
appreciated. :)

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
--
Regards,
Beru



http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=83135
--
Regards,
Beru
 
As has been mentioned by others: putting filters on the front of the lens does not mean the exposures will be dark, just that the viewfinder goes dark. When you put an IR filter on the front of an unmodified DSLR yes the exposures will be long, but that's only because the internal IR-blocking filter is still in place and the combination of these is relative darkness at ALL wavelengths.
My understanding was that (at least on the converted cameras) one
would just take the picture, having to adjust some for focus, but
am not aware that they are using and filters to take the shots...
On a properly "IR-converted" DSLR where there's an IR-pass filter behind the shutter, the photographer's eye, the AF system, and the exposure meter are all seeing the unfiltered light, while the imaging sensor gets the IR-only light.

The camera is adjusted so that the visible-light image is in focus to the eye and in the AF-system (so you can use MF and AF) at the same time that the matching IR image is in focus on the imaging sensor. This adjustment is specific to the filter that's installed into the camera.

With this in place the photographer can compose and focus normally, although the exposure metering is done either with Manual or with an AE mode using exposure compensation (as the exposure meter is seeing visible light, not the filtered light). "Chimping" the histogram is important.

As an aside, with a "compact" camera where the viewfinder, focussing and metering comes from the main imaging sensor (which is behind the filter) the entire system can be made automatic.
I would have thought the same would hold true with this camera. Is
it because it's sensitive to both UV and IR that you would need to
place the filter? I thought people were just desaturating the
colors in post? I am a complete newbie to this so any help is
appreciated. :)
Digital cameras are sensitive to everything from UV to IR, including visible light. Typically you want just UV or IR or visible-light in a photo (although sometimes combinations can be useful, as long as "chromatic aberration" doesn't become an issue due to the different focussing behaviour of the wavelengths) and thus you use various filters to restrict the light making it through to the sensor. "Normal" cameras have a filter that passes only UV and IR, and this is the filter that's removed and replaced in camera conversions.

In "IR conversions" this filter is replaced with an IR-pass filter (in my conversions I offer a choice of 3 types) while in conversions like my "CLR" and the S3 Pro UVIR it is replaced with a filter that passes light from UV through IR (using "plain glass" isn't perfect as it typically doesn't pass much UV).

In bodgy "home conversions" this filter is sometimes simply removed, but there are advantages of replacing it with SOMETHING, not least of which is to protect the sensor underneath from dust and scratches.

You may find it useful to read http://burren.cx/photo/ir_cameras.html
 
There are two really suitable filters for UV photography. However,
like the specialty lenses for UV they are not cheep. From my
searches and review of UV phtogrpahy you need a Baaden Venus filter
or a Schott DUG-11x (UG-11x)... These are the best single filter
options and will run between $600-$10000+ USD.
The Baader is about $100, but is only available in 1.25 inch at this time. This is not a problem, if you're going to fir it to an enlarger lens, but may be a problem for a standard macro or "simple" UV friendly prime like some of the ones that Bjorn recommends.

A UG11X in 52mm is about $300, depending on the Euro conversion. Contact Dr. Klaus Schmidt at the address listed in his contact info at http://www.macrolenses.de for more info.

I have a cheaper solution, farther down.
There's some stuff in this thread which might be of use. I should
skip the first long post from me:-
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1020&thread=19529267

I think this summary is largely accurate. Joseph S. Wisniewski will
definitely be able to straighten out any untruths.
That's a great deal to ask of anyone ;)
If I was
equipping the S3 UVIR for UV photography I would start out this
way:-

Investigate the Tamron 90mm macro to ascertain for sure that it
lets in a fair amount of UV. Otherwise, follow the more esoteric
lens selection route described by Bjorn Rorslett here:-
http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html
Sounds like a good starting point. I ended up along that path. I have a bellows (or three) so my primary UV lens is a Nikkor enlarging lens.
(Choose 'UV Colour' from the left-hand menu, scroll down and hit
'All You Ever Wanted To Know...', then item 7 from the drop-down
menu).

The classic filter stack for UV is the Kodak/Wratten 18A
(UV-pass/visible-cut) together with a Hot Mirror
(UV+visible-pass/IR-cut).

"B+W 403 [Schott UG 1]
Although this dark-violet filter transmits a small amount of
visible light, it completely blocks wavelengths longer than 410nm.

B+W 489 [Schott KG 3]
This filter is frequently described as a heat absorbing filter
because it lets the visible spectral range pass while the infrared
rays from 780nm are strongly blocked. It is often used to protect
IR-sensitive CCD sensors or in illumination systems."
Bjorn has recently changed his favorite UV filter. He now uses a UG-11X. The UG11 glass passes about 30% more UV than the UG1 glass does, but it also passes a lot more "problem" IR. You can't "fix" it with a blue green KG3 or a hot mirror. Those barely work on the UG1.

The blue glass or hot mirror filters tend to cut down on the UV sensitivity of filters. The dichroic filtering used on the Baader or UG-11X is set to a wavelength somewhere shorter than infrared, so it performs better both in blocking IR and passing UV. I've been using a similar dichroic filter for years.

I use a B+W 403 (Bjorn's original recommendation), and my dichroic filter came from Edmund Optics. I used the Pyrex substrate filters that they no longer have listed in their catalog. I'm a competent glassworker, so I used a square blank and cut it down to fit a round filter ring.

They do have glass filters, round and ready to go. These should be just fine for near UV down to about 320nm or so.

I believe the 2 inch round blanks will mount in a standard 52mm filter ring (get a cheap UV filter from the $1 box at the local camera store, remove the glass, mount the dichroic filter). The "plus blue" is $31 in 2 inch round, part number NT52-532. The 52mm 402 is $37 at B&H. Under $70 for a 52mm filter of near perfect character.

--
The Pistons led the NBA, and lost in the playoffs.
The Red Wings led the NHL, and lost in the playoffs.

It's up to the Tigers now...
Leading the league, and going all the way!

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
My understanding was that (at least on the converted cameras) one
would just take the picture, having to adjust some for focus, but
am not aware that they are using and filters to take the shots...
On a properly "IR-converted" DSLR where there's an IR-pass filter
behind the shutter, the photographer's eye, the AF system, and the
exposure meter are all seeing the unfiltered light, while the
imaging sensor gets the IR-only light.
The camera is adjusted so that the visible-light image is in focus
to the eye and in the AF-system (so you can use MF and AF) at the
same time that the matching IR image is in focus on the imaging
sensor. This adjustment is specific to the filter that's installed
into the camera.
I hope they do something a little different (although I've never seen it mentioned in instructions such as LifePixel's).

Trimming the focus will give you unpredictable results, because different lenses have different IR corrections, based on design and complexity of the lens. So one lens might be just right, while another is over corrected.

Better to filter the AF system like the main sensor.
With this in place the photographer can compose and focus normally,
although the exposure metering is done either with Manual or with
an AE mode using exposure compensation (as the exposure meter is
seeing visible light, not the filtered light). "Chimping" the
histogram is important.
Very.
As an aside, with a "compact" camera where the viewfinder,
focussing and metering comes from the main imaging sensor (which is
behind the filter) the entire system can be made automatic.
I would have thought the same would hold true with this camera. Is
it because it's sensitive to both UV and IR that you would need to
place the filter? I thought people were just desaturating the
colors in post? I am a complete newbie to this so any help is
appreciated. :)
Digital cameras are sensitive to everything from UV to IR,
including visible light. Typically you want just UV or IR or
visible-light in a photo (although sometimes combinations can be
useful, as long as "chromatic aberration" doesn't become an issue
due to the different focussing behaviour of the wavelengths) and
thus you use various filters to restrict the light making it
through to the sensor. "Normal" cameras have a filter that passes
only UV and IR, and this is the filter that's removed and replaced
in camera conversions.

In "IR conversions" this filter is replaced with an IR-pass filter
(in my conversions I offer a choice of 3 types) while in
conversions like my "CLR" and the S3 Pro UVIR it is replaced with a
filter that passes light from UV through IR (using "plain glass"
isn't perfect as it typically doesn't pass much UV).
In bodgy "home conversions" this filter is sometimes simply
removed, but there are advantages of replacing it with SOMETHING,
not least of which is to protect the sensor underneath from dust
and scratches.

You may find it useful to read http://burren.cx/photo/ir_cameras.html
Interesting.

--
The Pistons led the NBA, and lost in the playoffs.
The Red Wings led the NHL, and lost in the playoffs.

It's up to the Tigers now...
Leading the league, and going all the way!

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
lifepixel.com will get ya going . . buy a used s3 and convert it for $250 USD . . did a d70 and it's going well for me
I am interested in this camera so I can do IR photography but have
not really found much online. Anyone know if it has been reviewed
yet? Will it behave like the modified for UV DSLRs? Or will there
still be a need for filters? TIA

--
-Michael
Just take the picture =)
Equipment in profile
Growing Gallery at:
http://www.ballentphoto.com
 
Hi All,

I used a slightly different approach to make a UV bandpass filter. I used the stackup of Schott UG1 + BG39 (each 1 mm thick) which effectively eliminates the IR leakage (

As I thought about how I would mount these filters, I started to worry about uncoated surface reflections, so I thought I'd try my hand at bonding the two filters together in order to reduce the number of uncoated surfaces from 4 to 2 (don't know if it matters too much, but I thought it would be fun to try!). So I got some Epotek 301 UV transmitting epoxy, put about 3 drops onto one filter in the middle, and then carefully laid the other filter down onto it. It was fun to watch the glue spread and eliminate this air interface. Three drops was just a guess, and fortunately it didn't make a big mess at the edges!

After curing, I left this glued assembly as a 2" square, and simply laid this down onto the larger end of a 52-72 mm step-up ring (I had to file the corners a little for the filter to seat well). I then secured the filter to the ring with black RTV (and helped seal the edges from any possible light leaks), thereby giving me a 52 mm filter. All in all, a fun project.

Take care,

Chris Warren
 
Hello Fuji & IR Shooters

I'm new to this forum but have been visiting DPreview for years. I know, a little slow here.

Anyway, I wanted to introduce myself to the Fuji and IR users. Wait, that sounds like you might be in need of rehab. :-)

Anyway, I was and still am a beta-tester of the Fuji S3 UVIR camera and have first hand knowledge of the camera in addition to having been at the press demo back on August 9th when the camera was announced.

It is modified S3 only in the sense as has been stated, the filter that normally blocks the UV and IR energies has been removed at the factory in Japan.

The clear filter is merely to protect the sensor from dust.

The Live Preview is an incredible feature of the S3 UVIR camera and I think one of the most important features, too. I can't stop raving about that feature. Myself being someone who has performed IR forensic photography for nearly 15 years with film the Live Preview is a miracle.

One other thing about the Live Preview.

I didn't like at first how laborious it was to scroll through the menu in order to activate the Live Preview. Fuji made a software change and moved the Live Preview so that it appears first when the Menu button is pushed on the back of the camera.

Focusing has not really been an issue at all for me. You do not need to have the Live Preview mode in order to focus all images, however, it does help when using IR or UV filters.

The only time I have found I needed to use the live preview is when I have any of the many IR filters installed over the lens. Especially the Kodak 18a, 87b, 87c, 88a and 89b filters.

I've used the camera for forensic applications and for artistic purposes and it works GREAT for both. You can see some of my results on my website at http://www.brooksphotographicimaging.com . Check out the NEWS & ARTICLES and see the paper I am continually expanding on my testing on this great camera.

For those who are IR shooters, Peca Products at my suggestion has started manufacturing a full line of IR and UV filters that Kodak in its infinite wisdom stopped manufacturing a few years back. The Peca filters will run between $80-115 depending on size and vendor you choose. My testing also shows the results of those filters.

Checkout my site for demos I will have around the U.S. and where you can go to see a demo on the camera and possible future UVIR cameras.

Michael J. Brooks
 

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