Please lend me your pro perspective...

Don't restrict capturing the moment for perfect lighting. Who wants a perfectly exposed crying kid? You got the facial exposure right and who knows what you can do in PS to compensate for blown backlight.

You got the exposure right on the most important part of the image. The other part is "artistic expression" (grin)

Robert
--
http://www.streamlinestudio.com

The first and last images are overexposed. And I think all your images need to be post-processed.

No offence but as they are now, they look more like results taken by a point & shoot.

The first image is over exposed but can be salvaged with a lot of post processing. You'll need to adjust the exposure in the RAW file, that is assuming you shot in RAW.

The last image needs to be trashed. People can usually tolerate an overexposed sky but the overexposed lake made the bottom part of the picture overexposed. The visual effect is very unsettling.

On bright sunny days, you need to under expose the background by at least 1/2 a stop and use a flash to brighten up the subject.

Certainly the parents will love them. My wife likes all sorts of crappy pictures taken of our 2 year old. The point is, if you are a professional, that anything you take should be "portfolio" material. This means that people BEYOND the parents will love them and will be inspired to hire you based on pictures of someone elses child. Simply put, your pictures are no better than what most people snap with a point and shoot. They could easily be reproduced with little to no effort or preplanning. They certainly woudn't go on my website or in my sample book. Good luck, and I hope you learn to listen to even those that critique your work.

Mark
--
http://www.markjanzenphotography.com
---Still looking for the perfect camera bag.............

Uhmmmm. I just looked at your website of the kids portfolio and many of the shots have blown highlights.
example:

http://www.markjanzenphotography.com/detail.html?sortNumber=2&gallery=Kids%20Gallery&skipno=0

Or how about this one which is the first shot in your wedding portfolio

http://www.markjanzenphotography.com/detail.html?sortNumber=1&gallery=Wedding%20Gallery&skipno=0

Both are very nice shots that capture the moment but wouldn't pass muster under your own advice.

Not that Uncle Frank needs defense, but you claimed you would never put an image on your website that was technically no better than a P&S "grabshot"

I don't do kids or weddings but I admire those with the patience and skill to do so. Many of your shots are very nice, but not technically correct.

Many of my own shots show flaws technically but capturing the essence of the moment is far more important than white levels above 255... unless the whole image is nothing but white

Not trying to pick a fight, but just my observation that unless your portfolio matches your assertions then you need to follow your own advice...

Robert
--
http://www.streamlinestudio.com

Daughare said:

Certainly the parents will love them.

Click to expand...

I must be missing something, Mark. Isn't pleasing the client was the most important point?

Daughare said:

This means that people BEYOND the parents will love them and will be inspired to hire you based on pictures of someone elses child.

Click to expand...

Then, I guess the shots passed your test. I received a call yesterday, inquiring about a family portrait. The customer expressed an interest for a casual picture in an outdoors setting, so I submitted the following examples, and landed the job.

Daughare said:

The point is, if you are a professional, that anything you take should be "portfolio" material.

Click to expand...

You make that statement as if there was a single standard for pro images, but just reading this thread should make you realize that there isn't.

Daughare said:

Simply put, your pictures are no better than what most
people snap with a point and shoot. They could easily be
reproduced with little to no effort or preplanning. They certainly
woudn't go on my website or in my sample book.

Click to expand...

Why are you so upset? If you have issues, direct your anger at your fellow professionals who've led me to believe that my pictures were salable, not at me. I'm just a pilgrim, trying to find my way, and I stopped by this forum for help, not insults.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

Robert Strom said:

Don't restrict capturing the moment for perfect lighting. Who
wants a perfectly exposed crying kid? You got the facial exposure
right and who knows what you can do in PS to compensate for blown
backlight.

You got the exposure right on the most important part of the image.
The other part is "artistic expression" (grin)

Click to expand...

Thanks for shariing your thoughts, Robert. The responses to my question have been all over the map, so I guess there's no single standard for a professional photo. It's tough for me to juggle several balls, so I tend to pay more attention to expression, pose, and backgrounds than to technical issues. So until I can afford some assistants and reflectors, I'll just inform clients that clipped highlights are an integral part of my artistic expression ;-).

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

Uncle Frank said:

Daughare said:

Certainly the parents will love them.

Click to expand...

I must be missing something, Mark. Isn't pleasing the client was
the most important point?

Click to expand...

Most clients know very little about proper exposure and even what a
good picture is all about. If you want to 'fool' some of the people 'some'
of the time, then that is fine.

However, if you ask pro advise.... and try to ratioinalize it away.... then
I guess you can fool some of the people some of the time.

When you get a client that is savvy, you will think twice about rationalizing
your bad pictures away.

There is a market for snapshots, and you seem to have hit that market.

Another however.... when you come to a pro forum, there is some degree
of quality that you should display and not 'snapshot' level of images.

AperturePro said:

However, if you ask pro advise.... and try to ratioinalize it
away.... then I guess you can fool some of the people some of the time.

Click to expand...

But there was no consensus among your forum mates. Unless you're representing yourself as the quintessential professional photographer, you should realize that this isn't a black and white issue.

Highlights aside, my suggestions for you are that you consider using the acronym IMHO, try to moderate your authoritative tone, and stop over-representing your personal opinion by making numerous responses to the same question.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

Robert Strom said:

Uhmmmm. I just looked at your website of the kids portfolio and
many of the shots have blown highlights.
example:

http://www.markjanzenphotography.com/detail.html?sortNumber=2&gallery=Kids%20Gallery&skipno=0

Click to expand...

First of all, I wasn't refering to blown highlights at all. The backgrounds, ambient/fill exposure balance, and cropping/framing are the primary problems with these images. As for "blown highlights", I don't mind a small amount of it, especially with a backlight/rim light like in the above example. The problem arises when there are large areas of blown highlight in an image to the point that it becomes distracting.

Robert Strom said:

Or how about this one which is the first shot in your wedding
portfolio

http://www.markjanzenphotography.com/detail.html?sortNumber=1&gallery=Wedding%20Gallery&skipno=0

Click to expand...

Sorry, but there are NO blown highlights in that image. I have a 16x24 print of that image that goes to bridal shows with me and there is full detail in every part of the dress.

Robert Strom said:

Both are very nice shots that capture the moment but wouldn't pass
muster under your own advice.

Click to expand...

They pass muster just fine.

Robert Strom said:

Not that Uncle Frank needs defense, but you claimed you would never
put an image on your website that was technically no better than a
P&S "grabshot"

Click to expand...

I said those images wouldn't go on my website or portfolio as an example of my work - not specifically for technical reasons, but for the reasons I laid out above.

Robert Strom said:

I don't do kids or weddings but I admire those with the patience
and skill to do so. Many of your shots are very nice, but not
technically correct.

Click to expand...

An outstanding moment can outweigh technical excellence, but it must be a truly outstanding moment - Uncle Franks images lack this.

Robert Strom said:

Many of my own shots show flaws technically but capturing the
essence of the moment is far more important than white levels above
255... unless the whole image is nothing but white

Click to expand...

Actually if you are printing your images you need to stay below 245 as current printing technology is not up to the task.

Robert Strom said:

Not trying to pick a fight, but just my observation that unless
your portfolio matches your assertions then you need to follow your
own advice...

Click to expand...

My portfolio does meet my standards. Again I think you are confusing my comments with those who are harping on about blown highlights. If I have blown highlights in any of my images, they are 1, intentional or, 2, outweighed by emotional impact and unavoidable.

Mark
--
http://www.markjanzenphotography.com
---Still looking for the perfect camera bag.............

Uncle Frank said:

Daughare said:

Certainly the parents will love them.

Click to expand...

I must be missing something, Mark. Isn't pleasing the client was
the most important point?

Click to expand...

Sure, but in the interest of future business success you must provide better work.

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

This means that people BEYOND the parents will love them and will be inspired to hire you based on pictures of someone elses child.

Click to expand...

Then, I guess the shots passed your test. I received a call
yesterday, inquiring about a family portrait. The customer
expressed an interest for a casual picture in an outdoors setting,
so I submitted the following examples, and landed the job.

Click to expand...

That's great.

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

The point is, if you are a professional, that anything you take should be "portfolio" material.

Click to expand...

You make that statement as if there was a single standard for pro
images, but just reading this thread should make you realize that
there isn't.

Click to expand...

Every image you take should be worthy of your portfolio. The two images you posted are vastly different in their quality level and I really wouildn't know what to expect if I hired you. With those images I would be entering a crapshoot with my money.

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

Simply put, your pictures are no better than what most
people snap with a point and shoot. They could easily be
reproduced with little to no effort or preplanning. They certainly
woudn't go on my website or in my sample book.

Click to expand...

Why are you so upset? If you have issues, direct your anger at
your fellow professionals who've led me to believe that my pictures
were salable, not at me. I'm just a pilgrim, trying to find my
way, and I stopped by this forum for help, not insults.

Click to expand...

I'm not upset, and many of my "fellow professionals" are not. Don't delude yourself into thinking that everyone on the "pro" forum is a pro - the truth is far from it. Sorry if you felt insulted, this wasn't my intent. I have read both threads about these images and you have catagorically dismissed all negative critisism (constructive or otherwise), while latching on to only the positive feedback as some sort of vindication for your sub-par work.

Mark
--
http://www.markjanzenphotography.com
---Still looking for the perfect camera bag.............

Daughare said:

If I have blown highlights in any of my images, they
are 1, intentional or, 2, outweighed by emotional impact and
unavoidable.

Click to expand...

Mark,I think you're starting to buy your own hype.

Since this shot contains blown highlights, it must be one of your "emotional impact" shots.



Not only isn't there a sparkle in his eyes, you can't even see them, or a hint of his personality. Here's my version.



Another "emotional impact" shot?



My version.



If those are your standards for emotive renderings, I'd love having you as the competition for all of my jobs... and I'm just a casual shooter. I hope it's early in your career, because I don't think you'd stand a chance against an accomplished photographer. Sorry, but that's jmho.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

I don't like the kid shots for a variety of reasons, but the main 2 are:

1. In every image but 1 the child is either looking away or seemingly disinterested (including the family portrait) -- makes me think you were unable to get the child's focus and involvement, and thus emotion. For instance, in the family portrait, the parents clearly show a great deal of emotion. The child appears almost frightened.

2. If this is indeed supposed to be casual/informal, the child's attire (esp the flower) comes off as stilted. Kids are messy, and the last thing kids think of (normally) is whether they look right. If you want the child's personality, have the child actually doing something the child likes, in this case perhaps with a favorite doll, than trying to pose.

Blacklumix said:

1. In every image but 1 the child is either looking away or
seemingly disinterested (including the family portrait) -- makes me
think you were unable to get the child's focus and involvement, and
thus emotion.

Click to expand...

What pictures were you looking at?





Not that you need any, but there are valid reasons not to like my pictures. You don't need to make up reasons - lol.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

If I have blown highlights in any of my images, they
are 1, intentional or, 2, outweighed by emotional impact and
unavoidable.

Click to expand...

Mark,I think you're starting to buy your own hype.

Since this shot contains blown highlights, it must be one of your
"emotional impact" shots.

Click to expand...

There are still pixels to print in that bright background and it "sets off" the profile of his face - it doesn't distract or compete for attention. As for the mood/emotion, it is quiet and contemplative - there are others in the series that show "twinkle and personality"

Uncle Frank said:

Not only isn't there a sparkle in his eyes, you can't even see
them, or a hint of his personality. Here's my version.

Click to expand...

Shoulders square to the camera, strange background, and poor fill balance. The use of your flash is obvious and distracting whereas in my shot, although a flash was used, the lighting is completely natural looking.

Uncle Frank said:

Another "emotional impact" shot?

Click to expand...

Nope, but there aren't any major technical flaws either.

Uncle Frank said:

Click to expand...

You might try looking a little deeper through my site - you may have found this:



Or this:



Or maybe this:



Or even this:



And one last one for good measure:



Oh, and what the heck, just because he is so cute:

Uncle Frank said:

My version.

Click to expand...

This is a really nice shot.

Uncle Frank said:

If those are your standards for emotive renderings, I'd love having
you as the competition for all of my jobs... and I'm just a casual
shooter. I hope it's early in your career, because I don't think
you'd stand a chance against an accomplished photographer. Sorry,
but that's jmho.

Click to expand...

Now who's insulting who? You delude yourself friend, good luck to you.

Mark
--
http://www.markjanzenphotography.com
---Still looking for the perfect camera bag.............

Hi Uncle Frank. I have been following these discussions and I'd like to weigh in with a comment unrelated to highlights. I'd like to suggest that, of these 2 pics, the second looks better to me because it has more contrast. I also believe that the first pic could benefit from more contrast. It has almost a "hazy" look - not sure that's the right word - and I didn't even notice it till I looked at these 2 side by side. I took your top image and added more contrast and liked it better. I have not posted it - but give it a try and see what you think.

Jeesh,

you need to cool off.

You are dissing anyone who dares say something about your images....even worse, you're interpreting innocous comments as attacks on your person.

Take a break man....or people will really, really start to believe that this is NOT just a bad day on your part......

Cool down.

--
Photos speak louder than words.....let's all post more photos.

Daughare said:

There are still pixels to print in that bright background and it
"sets off" the profile of his face - it doesn't distract or compete
for attention. As for the mood/emotion, it is quiet and
contemplative - there are others in the series that show "twinkle
and personality"

Click to expand...

Dude, there are only 6 pictures in your Kids Gallery, all of the same kid... yours I presume. I've looked at each of them all closely, and none of them meet my amateur standards for an emotive rendering. If you prefer kids without smiles, at least show their eyes.

Daughare said:

Now who's insulting who? You delude yourself friend, good luck to
you.

Click to expand...

I'm just trying to help in an area where I feel I have something to offer, Mark. It's clear from the lack of material in your galleries that you're just starting out, and I think you may be so focused on technique and artsy treatments that you're forgetting portraits should reveal some aspect of the inner nature of the subject. The manner in which the subject's eyes are portrayed is generally regarded as the key to a good portrait.



--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

There are still pixels to print in that bright background and it
"sets off" the profile of his face - it doesn't distract or compete
for attention. As for the mood/emotion, it is quiet and
contemplative - there are others in the series that show "twinkle
and personality"

Click to expand...

Dude, there are only 6 pictures in your Kids Gallery, all of the
same kid... yours I presume. I've looked at each of them all
closely, and none of them meet my amateur standards for an emotive
rendering. If you prefer kids without smiles, at least show their
eyes.

Click to expand...

While it's true that there is not a lot of material in that gallery, I think you are streching yourself comparing my images with yours. It is a new gallery and a new segment of my business that I am building, but I have been so busy with my wedding work that I haven't had the time to fully develop that portfolio or promote that aspect of my business. As we move into the wedding "off-season" I will expand that gallery. I also at one time had many other shots that were studio based, but my focus is not on "studio portraiture" so I removed all those other images.

Uncle Frank said:

Uncle Frank said:

Now who's insulting who? You delude yourself friend, good luck to
you.

Click to expand...

I'm just trying to help in an area where I feel I have something to
offer, Mark. It's clear from the lack of material in your
galleries that you're just starting out, and I think you may be so
focused on technique and artsy treatments that you're forgetting
portraits should reveal some aspect of the inner nature of the
subject. The manner in which the subject's eyes are portrayed is
generally regarded as the key to a good portrait.

Click to expand...

And when you have nailed that yourself, I may listen. Until then, it's laughable that you pass your work off as equal or superior to my own. Keep having fun with your hobby, and keep improving. Lot's of great advice has been given to you, it's your choice what you do with it going forward. I'm off now to pack up for a small bridal fair this afternoon, wish me luck and good fortune!

Later,
Mark
--
http://www.markjanzenphotography.com
---Still looking for the perfect camera bag.............

Daughare said:

it doesn't distract or compete
for attention.

Click to expand...

No, I suppose the shirt does that. I suppose thats why it had to be toned not colour. You should have got him to wear a plainer shirt.
See how easy it is to be critical?!

I like the shot. I agree he looks like he is contemplating something and you don't need the eyes full on every shot.

The OP is over defensive because a lot of the posters are over critical.

No image is perfect. Learning somethings to improve is fine but comments like "I'd trash them all" are way off the mark.

Andrew

Daughare said:

I'm off now to pack up for a small bridal fair this afternoon, wish me luck and good fortune!

Click to expand...

Good luck, Mark. Go book some orders!

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank
FCAS Founder, Hummingbird Hunter, Egret Stalker
Dilettante Appassionato
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank