350D or K100D?

dawnii said:

(ex.: you're going over a bad road with the car, camera is shaken
up and down..)? And the small servo motors which move the parts,
they are a new point which can be faulty.

Click to expand...

It's a good point that the durability of the systems is unproven over time.

However, the pentax system does not use servo motors. It moves the sensor with electromagnetic fields.

• mike

CityLights said:

By the way, stabilization in the camera (all non-canon) is only
good for about 1.5 stops of stabilization. Older, in the lens
stabilization (Canon and some 3rd party lens makers like sigma),
was good for about 2 stops. Newer in the lens stabilization (also
Canon) is good for 3 stops.

Click to expand...

This will depend on many factors, not least of which is the person holding the camera. I've seen samples from quite a few individuals which dispute your claim of only 1.5 stops of improvement with any in camera system.

-mike

CityLights said:

Good luck!

--
CityLights
http://www.pbase.com/citylights/favorites
http://www.pbase.com/citylights/favorite_portraits
http://www.pbase.com/citylights/favorite_animals
.

Click to expand...

I believe Sony makes the sensor used in the K100D(and other Pentax, Nikon, and KM DSLRs too). The recall was on cameras with smaller sensors though.

Jepz Dee said:

From reviews, Sony A100 has a formidable entry level DLSR. Has
more pixels than Pentax. But think of the following notes if you
decide to choose the Sony:

1. A few years ago there was a massive recall of cameras due to a
faulty
CCD? Who made the sensors? Its a Sony.

2. In the news today, a massive recall of Dell laptop batteries?
Who made
the batteries? Its a Sony.

Sony is good at the engineering aspect. But their Manufacturing Flaws
make me wary of getting a Sony.

Pentax has a long history as a manufacturer of Cameras. And in my
opinion,
Pentax is the better buy than Sony.

Click to expand...

--
Various tags to clarify what your message is about...

HELP: having difficulty with camera
TIP: stuff you've figured out how to do and want to share
IMGP: images posted to the forum for enjoyment of all
TECH: technical talk and rumors
CHALLENGE: for all our various challenges
ORG: anything issues about the forum
CR: please critique my images
CHAT: This place is so great, I love you guys! etc.
OT: Off the Topic of Pentax DSLR photography
LINK: links to other sites

The problem is... to get high shutter speed, you need light, and lots of it. Of course turning up the sensitivity helps too, but that starts producing noise around 1600-3200... but I am in agreement that IS is not generally needed, although I can see it being very useful sometimes.
--
Various tags to clarify what your message is about...

HELP: having difficulty with camera
TIP: stuff you've figured out how to do and want to share
IMGP: images posted to the forum for enjoyment of all
TECH: technical talk and rumors
CHALLENGE: for all our various challenges
ORG: anything issues about the forum
CR: please critique my images
CHAT: This place is so great, I love you guys! etc.
OT: Off the Topic of Pentax DSLR photography
LINK: links to other sites

cricketislife said:

The only thing that is stopping me from buying a canon instead is
that my hand is pretty shaky and I will definitely need
stabilization. Canon has a variety of IS lenses but they are WAY
too expensive.

Click to expand...

If you haven't got steady hands then the only really helpful thing is IS/VR/OS. Neither of the in body systems stabilises the viewfinder or autofocus sensors, both of which are crucial. What good is a stabilized main sensor if the images are neither properly focused nor framed as you intended...
--
regards
Karl Günter Wünsch
Visit my gallery at
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/461808

The shake most people are likely to experience at reasonable speeds is minor in movement; but, enough to blur the image to an out of focus look.

I don't think most people in these instances where SR would be effective are swooping about like a drunken menace.
So I think the composition and autofocus will be OK.

If you are shaking that much then I don't think any of the stabilization systems will save you.

• mike

savagemikel said:

The shake most people are likely to experience at reasonable speeds
is minor in movement; but, enough to blur the image to an out of
focus look.
I don't think most people in these instances where SR would be
effective are swooping about like a drunken menace.
So I think the composition and autofocus will be OK.
If you are shaking that much then I don't think any of the
stabilization systems will save you.

• mike

Click to expand...

Just look at samples and tests of SR and you will see how it works...Such function is great when one wants to stick to low ASA

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com

I think the in-camera antishake is a great idea. However, it's brand new technology, and we don't know how realiable it is in the time. I'd nt like the idea of having the in-camera anti-shake fail, and have to bring the camera to the repair shop and wait with no camera until it is fixed. Instead, I prefer have either no anti-shake or antishake in the lenses (if an IS lens fails, I have other lenses to shoot with).

SebbyNC said:

I think the in-camera antishake is a great idea. However, it's
brand new technology, and we don't know how realiable it is in the
time. I'd nt like the idea of having the in-camera anti-shake
fail, and have to bring the camera to the repair shop and wait with
no camera until it is fixed. Instead, I prefer have either no
anti-shake or antishake in the lenses (if an IS lens fails, I have
other lenses to shoot with).

Click to expand...

Good point, however, I happen to be one of thoise fools that like to have two cameras, so that is no argument for me...

Expensive??? Maybe, but it's relative, once you start collecting lenses you realize that a body is only the beginning of cost... And gee, al these new photo editing software..... Nope, a body is just aboiut the cheapest in the collection

--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2

CityLights said:

CityLights said:

Am I doing something wrong while taking the photos?
Is there any other alternative to costly IS or VR zoom lenses?

Click to expand...

I see so many people fooling themselves into thinking they need
image stabilization. It is a neat marketing trick. It sells
expensive toys.

BUT, it is not neccessary. Oh sure, I will admit it has its uses,
but it is not neccesary.

Click to expand...

It can be very usefull

CityLights said:

So anyone that has an IS lens, don't bother to flame me. I know
what they are good for. I also know their limitations. I just
want people to know all the facts before they decide.

By the way, stabilization in the camera (all non-canon) is only
good for about 1.5 stops of stabilization. Older, in the lens
stabilization (Canon and some 3rd party lens makers like sigma),
was good for about 2 stops. Newer in the lens stabilization (also
Canon) is good for 3 stops.

Click to expand...

My first test:

DPreview thread:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=19620978

PBase page:
http://www.pbase.com/jl2/k100d_sr_test&page=all

As yo can see, I like dusk- and nightshots, and I think for myself I have proven (so far ofcourse) that at least in dusk I can do without a tripod far more often than before...

CityLights said:

Good luck!

.

Click to expand...

--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2

I'm one of those fools who only buy Canon, Im too heavily invested and too comfortable with the system to change. If iwas just starting out I'd seriously consider the Pentax or the Sony.

The just increase the shutter speed argument doesn't hold water. What if your Canon set at ISO 1600 and f/2.8 gives you a reading of 1/10s, then wouldn't it be nice have the IS?

I would like to see canon come out with a 3 stop IS in camera. Eventually Pentax and Sony will improve theirs to be on par or better than Canon's IS (technology never stands still). Still, it seems that if Canon put IS in their bodies all that R&D on the in lens system would be wasted, so it's a tough call for Canon.

SJ69 said:

What if your Canon set at ISO 1600 and f/2.8 gives you a reading of
1/10s, then wouldn't it be nice have the IS?

Click to expand...

No, as most hand held shooting at that time would suffer from distance variations while hand holding as well IS can't do anything for you except lure you into a false sense of "I can handhold that shot" while in fact it's not possible because the distance isn't included in either stabilisation system!

SJ69 said:

Still, it
seems that if Canon put IS in their bodies all that R&D on the in
lens system would be wasted, so it's a tough call for Canon.

Click to expand...

No, please don't. The AS/SSS/whatever Pentax calls their incarnation is only a crudge. It doesn't do much good in those circumstances you described except keep you from doing the right thing:

• Either the shot is possible at 1/10th of a second (nothing is moving) then you should by all means use a tripod,
• or it's not possible (most likely) because there is some movement, then you should rethink and either use a flash or higher ISO or a faster lens.

1/10th shutter speed is deep inside the territory for mirror slap effects, so using the camera hand held is leading to blurred shots even with IS or in-body stabilisation. The only thing worthwile doing then is: mount the camera on a tripod, use a remote release and activate mirror lock up!
--
regards
Karl Günter Wünsch
Visit my gallery at
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/461808

still if I was at an event, say just a family party, a wedding (not as the pro), a dinner or something similar then I don't have the tripod and would prefer to shoot with IS rather than without. I realize the subject may still move a little bit, but at least it isn't compounded by the camera moving also.

I have taken decent shots before at 1/10s of live people without any noticible subject movement blur,m at least in a 4 X 6.

So, no IS doesn't take the place of a tripod and a fast lens, but those are not always options, especially at the entry level.

Keep in mind that AS (Anti Shake) gives you about 2 Stops of head room.

But the Canon's high ISO ability gives you about 2 Stops of head room (over competition).

2 Stops of head works for EVERY shot (moving subject, low light and hand held). 2 Stops from AS (anti shake) only gives you and edge on hand held situations.

The Pentax is a WONDERFUL feeling body. But it takes AA batteries !!! Yuck. You'll be switching batteries while everyone else is taking pictures.

If Pentax had Lithium and 8M pixel+ I think I would have went for Pentax.

A lens with 2 stops lower F-Stop also gives you the same headroom for all types of situations.

He was using an example at an extreme. It's hardly the only time you'd use SR technology or whatever you call it from whomever.

Your ideas about doing the proper thing are all well and good if the situation allows for it. Quite often it is beyond the control of the photographer to halt everything in place and set up like that.

It depends on what kind of photography you are doing. But to just dismiss out of hand by saying the right thing to do is get a tripod, etc... is ... well I'm sorry it is just silly. It simply cannot always apply.

And by the way... the SR system does know the focal distance. And, at least with pentax, you can enter the focal length your shooting manually if it's an older lens which does automatically supply the info to the camera.

• mike

mswlogo said:

Keep in mind that AS (Anti Shake) gives you about 2 Stops of head
room.

Click to expand...

about.. it will vary with lots of factors, including the user.

mswlogo said:

But the Canon's high ISO ability gives you about 2 Stops of head
room (over competition).

Click to expand...

Canon has a lovely sensor. That is gives two full stops against all competition across all ISOs is stretching it a good deal though I think.

mswlogo said:

2 Stops of head works for EVERY shot (moving subject, low light and
hand held). 2 Stops from AS (anti shake) only gives you and edge on
hand held situations.

Click to expand...

But if I take pentax built in SR for a couple stops, and generally very nice high ISO for another stop or so and then take the wind speed and carry the 5..... well I don't know... too many variables... but I like having so many options.... even on old cheap lenses.

mswlogo said:

The Pentax is a WONDERFUL feeling body. But it takes AA batteries
!!! Yuck. You'll be switching batteries while everyone else is
taking pictures.

Click to expand...

Yeah... some love the AAs and some don't like them at all. For me it's not a deal breaker either way. It is nice that you can throw a nice cheap pack of AA lithiums in your bag as emergency backup and leave them there for months in case you eventually need them. They are light and will provide a large number of shots..... REALLY large.

mswlogo said:

If Pentax had Lithium and 8M pixel+ I think I would have went for
Pentax.

A lens with 2 stops lower F-Stop also gives you the same headroom
for all types of situations.

Click to expand...

A lens with 2 stops lower F-Stop can also cost an arm and a leg. Along those lines, Pentax has some really nice glass too.

So, all in all, I think Canon has some nice capability in its sensor. That is for sure. And they produce some nice lenses with built in antishake.. if you want to pay a boatload of pesos for them.
Mostly I am just trying to play devil's advocate.

All in all though, for an entry camera, the new pentax has a lot going for it.

For $700US you get one of the better kit lenses around, built in SR on ALL lenses... old or new or expensive or cheap. You get good high ISO performance. I won't even start to talk about viewfinder size and spot meetering and whatnot. You get a lot for a very good price in my opinion.

Maybe the rebel replacement will bring more to the table.
And everyone has their own needs and criteria.
For me....
The only reason to get the rebel over the k100d pentax is:

1. You already have some canon lenses or have reason to want to begin investing in the canon lens system.

2. You simply feel the canon sensor/image quality is superior and are willing to put up with everything else to have that.

• mike

The AWB of Pentax K100D works in range of 4000...8000K (written on manual), but tungsten are about 2800K -- therefore you must set white balance manually to tungsten or even better is to use a white sheet of paper to adjust white balance manually.
--
Ivar A.

Sony and Pentax have a farily audible AF motor noise; just try either camera and you'll see what I mean. My wife initially wanted the K100D for its very cool pancake prime lenses and anti-shake. However, the noise was driving her nuts; not to mention the average low-light/dynamic focusing system. She ended-up buying the XTi (400D) instead and she loves it so far.

--
Thanks.