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Clark G.

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I am using a Canon 380ex flash with a G2, and flash photos have been consistently overexposed, particularly in the P setting. This has been true even when bouncing the flash and when using the Sto-Phen clear Omni Bounce. (On inside photos in Tungsten lighting, the Omni Bounce also seems to affect the white balance, but that's a different issue entirely.) I understood from reading the owner's manual that the flash intensity would automatically adjust based on the metered reading, but it seems that I have to set the flash exposure to -1 in order to achieve decent results without a lot of Photshop work.

Also, in outside flash photography (Christmas tree shopping, petting zoos--it's that time of year, you know), I have had a number of pictures in which the subject seemed shrouded in a cloud of light. Some of the outdoor pictures were exposed just right, without the "glow" effect, so I don't think it's a defective camera.

I know that this sounds like a request for a class in basic flash photography techniques, but I have used the same flash and Omni Bounce on a Canon SLR without any of these issues. So, this leads to my questions for this knowledgable and helpful group: (1) Should I be concerned about a defect in the camera's metering or E-TTL flash connection? (2) Assuming that it's me, what am I doing wrong, especially outside? Maybe something unique to digital photography of which I am not yet aware? (3) Am I just stuck with having to remember to adjust the flash exposure? (4) Is anybody else having this problem?
Thanks.
 
I tried to respond to this earlier and couldn't do it. This is just a test.
nahau
Clark G. said:
I am using a Canon 380ex flash with a G2, and flash photos have
been consistently overexposed, particularly in the P setting. This
has been true even when bouncing the flash and when using the
Sto-Phen clear Omni Bounce. (On inside photos in Tungsten
lighting, the Omni Bounce also seems to affect the white balance,
but that's a different issue entirely.) I understood from reading
the owner's manual that the flash intensity would automatically
adjust based on the metered reading, but it seems that I have to
set the flash exposure to -1 in order to achieve decent results
without a lot of Photshop work.

Also, in outside flash photography (Christmas tree shopping,
petting zoos--it's that time of year, you know), I have had a
number of pictures in which the subject seemed shrouded in a cloud
of light. Some of the outdoor pictures were exposed just right,
without the "glow" effect, so I don't think it's a defective camera.

I know that this sounds like a request for a class in basic flash
photography techniques, but I have used the same flash and Omni
Bounce on a Canon SLR without any of these issues. So, this leads
to my questions for this knowledgable and helpful group: (1)
Should I be concerned about a defect in the camera's metering or
E-TTL flash connection? (2) Assuming that it's me, what am I doing
wrong, especially outside? Maybe something unique to digital
photography of which I am not yet aware? (3) Am I just stuck with
having to remember to adjust the flash exposure? (4) Is anybody
else having this problem?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Well, I won't try to remember what my original response was.. I doubt I could!

Anyways, your problem is nothing new. The Ettl functionality of the G1/G2 cameras when used with EX flashes basically... sucks big time!! So no, you are NOT the problem!

Somehow canon messed up in their implementation and I honestly thought they fixed it in the G2. I own a G1/420EX combo and it too overexposes. You would think that products advertised to work would actually do so! Unfortunately, the only thing that is for sure is that you will have to 1) take many photos and choose the best one, 2) use spot metering and try to expose for the faces of your subjects, 3) use FE lock... although this may not work all the time given that the camera can't correctly expose to begin with! 4) use bounce flash... although this will not solve your outdoor shots. It's a very sorry state of affairs this canon Ettl bull!! Too bad we can't all just take out a suit against canon for false advertising! Needless to say, I am not happy with the fact that I can't depend on something that the manufacture "promises" to work!!
nahau
Member said:
Clark G. said:
I am using a Canon 380ex flash with a G2, and flash photos have
been consistently overexposed, particularly in the P setting. This
has been true even when bouncing the flash and when using the
Sto-Phen clear Omni Bounce. (On inside photos in Tungsten
lighting, the Omni Bounce also seems to affect the white balance,
but that's a different issue entirely.) I understood from reading
the owner's manual that the flash intensity would automatically
adjust based on the metered reading, but it seems that I have to
set the flash exposure to -1 in order to achieve decent results
without a lot of Photshop work.

Also, in outside flash photography (Christmas tree shopping,
petting zoos--it's that time of year, you know), I have had a
number of pictures in which the subject seemed shrouded in a cloud
of light. Some of the outdoor pictures were exposed just right,
without the "glow" effect, so I don't think it's a defective camera.

I know that this sounds like a request for a class in basic flash
photography techniques, but I have used the same flash and Omni
Bounce on a Canon SLR without any of these issues. So, this leads
to my questions for this knowledgable and helpful group: (1)
Should I be concerned about a defect in the camera's metering or
E-TTL flash connection? (2) Assuming that it's me, what am I doing
wrong, especially outside? Maybe something unique to digital
photography of which I am not yet aware? (3) Am I just stuck with
having to remember to adjust the flash exposure? (4) Is anybody
else having this problem?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
My G2 seems to work fairly nice with my 420EX, but with a slight fixable overexposure.

That being said, I have read here that when you do a bounce flash ETTL isn't used and it just fires full strength. I may be wrong, flashes are my weakness.

Jason
nahau said:
Member said:
Clark G. said:
I am using a Canon 380ex flash with a G2, and flash photos have
been consistently overexposed, particularly in the P setting. This
has been true even when bouncing the flash and when using the
Sto-Phen clear Omni Bounce. (On inside photos in Tungsten
lighting, the Omni Bounce also seems to affect the white balance,
but that's a different issue entirely.) I understood from reading
the owner's manual that the flash intensity would automatically
adjust based on the metered reading, but it seems that I have to
set the flash exposure to -1 in order to achieve decent results
without a lot of Photshop work.

Also, in outside flash photography (Christmas tree shopping,
petting zoos--it's that time of year, you know), I have had a
number of pictures in which the subject seemed shrouded in a cloud
of light. Some of the outdoor pictures were exposed just right,
without the "glow" effect, so I don't think it's a defective camera.

I know that this sounds like a request for a class in basic flash
photography techniques, but I have used the same flash and Omni
Bounce on a Canon SLR without any of these issues. So, this leads
to my questions for this knowledgable and helpful group: (1)
Should I be concerned about a defect in the camera's metering or
E-TTL flash connection? (2) Assuming that it's me, what am I doing
wrong, especially outside? Maybe something unique to digital
photography of which I am not yet aware? (3) Am I just stuck with
having to remember to adjust the flash exposure? (4) Is anybody
else having this problem?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Jason H. said:
My G2 seems to work fairly nice with my 420EX, but with a slight
fixable overexposure.

That being said, I have read here that when you do a bounce flash
ETTL isn't used and it just fires full strength. I may be wrong,
flashes are my weakness.
Click to expand...
Nah, it still uses ETTL. The head is zoomed to a fixed focal length when you bounce.
 
Thanks for the responses. It is reassuring to know that the overexposure issue is fairly common. I am a little disappointed that I can't expect perfection without actually having to do a little work (gasp)--one reason for choosing the G2 was the hot shoe that would allow me to continue using the same flash that I already have--but if the worst problem I have with this camera is having to adjust the flash exposure then I won't complain too loudly.
 
Clark G. said:
Thanks for the responses. It is reassuring to know that the
overexposure issue is fairly common. I am a little disappointed
that I can't expect perfection without actually having to do a
little work (gasp)--one reason for choosing the G2 was the hot shoe
that would allow me to continue using the same flash that I already
have--but if the worst problem I have with this camera is having to
adjust the flash exposure then I won't complain too loudly.
Click to expand...
I asked a similar question in another post a few days ago. I'm glad to see the response here.

My question now is: Why spend $175.00 or more for a flash that really doesn't work any better than the internal one?
 
King Sachmo said:
I asked a similar question in another post a few days ago. I'm glad
to see the response here.
My question now is: Why spend $175.00 or more for a flash that
really doesn't work any better than the internal one?
Click to expand...
On what ground did you make the startling conclusion that an external flash such as the 420EX is not better than the internal?
 
King Sachmo said:
King Sachmo wrote:

I asked a similar question in another post a few days ago. I'm glad
to see the response here.
My question now is: Why spend $175.00 or more for a flash that
really doesn't work any better than the internal one?
Click to expand...
Actually, although the ettl functionality is "sucky", a flash like the 420EX is still better than the internal... any day! The advantages are higher power, further range and the ability to bounce. The ettl does work "somewhat"... it's just inconsistant with what most people expect it to do! Then again correct flash exposure has a lot to do with what both the G1 and G2 "thinks" it's metering on. Point the camera at a dark object in the frame and more than likely you will get overexposure... point it to a light object and you'll get underexposer... regardless of whether or not the rest of the frame has balanced lighting. More and more it really points to the metering of the cameras rather than just the flash... but then we "knew" that right?;-)
nahau
 
I'm one of those who had not heard any negative comments about external flashes like the 420ex (with the G2) until this thread. Good to hear both sides, good and bad experiences.

I keep reading about the great metering system on the Nikon Coolpix cameras. So, I'm assuming a Coolpix like the CP990 which has 256 segment metering would provide better flash exposure than the G2/420ex combo?
nahau said:
Member said:
King Sachmo wrote:

I asked a similar question in another post a few days ago. I'm glad
to see the response here.
My question now is: Why spend $175.00 or more for a flash that
really doesn't work any better than the internal one?
Click to expand...
Actually, although the ettl functionality is "sucky", a flash like
the 420EX is still better than the internal... any day! The
advantages are higher power, further range and the ability to
bounce. The ettl does work "somewhat"... it's just inconsistant
with what most people expect it to do! Then again correct flash
exposure has a lot to do with what both the G1 and G2 "thinks" it's
metering on. Point the camera at a dark object in the frame and
more than likely you will get overexposure... point it to a light
object and you'll get underexposer... regardless of whether or not
the rest of the frame has balanced lighting. More and more it
really points to the metering of the cameras rather than just the
flash... but then we "knew" that right?;-)
nahau
Click to expand...
 
Will,

I had the Nikon 990 with the SB-20 TTL flash. It was no better than the G2 in the TTL mode and in my experience not as good. I consistently got overexposed shots when using the TTL mode. Fortunately, the Nikon flashes have a good automatic mode to fall back on. I simply set the flash and camera to an aperture of f/8 and got very good results.

My results with the G2 and the 420ex have been very positive. While I wish the 420ex had an automatic mode, for the most part my photos are properly exposed. The exception is when my subject is within about 10 feet.

Anyway, I don't think Nikon has implemented TTL any better on their coolpix series.
JimmieD
Will said:
I keep reading about the great metering system on the Nikon Coolpix
cameras. So, I'm assuming a Coolpix like the CP990 which has 256
segment metering would provide better flash exposure than the
G2/420ex combo?
nahau said:
Will53889 said:
King Sachmo wrote:

I asked a similar question in another post a few days ago. I'm glad
to see the response here.
My question now is: Why spend $175.00 or more for a flash that
really doesn't work any better than the internal one?
Click to expand...
Actually, although the ettl functionality is "sucky", a flash like
the 420EX is still better than the internal... any day! The
advantages are higher power, further range and the ability to
bounce. The ettl does work "somewhat"... it's just inconsistant
with what most people expect it to do! Then again correct flash
exposure has a lot to do with what both the G1 and G2 "thinks" it's
metering on. Point the camera at a dark object in the frame and
more than likely you will get overexposure... point it to a light
object and you'll get underexposer... regardless of whether or not
the rest of the frame has balanced lighting. More and more it
really points to the metering of the cameras rather than just the
flash... but then we "knew" that right?;-)
nahau
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Having started this discussion, I should point out that I do still believe the external flash capability is an advantage. I took a series of pictures using both the built in flash and the 380ex, within a matter of minutes to ensure that the subject and the lighting were identical. With the correct flash exposure setting (somewhere from -2/3 to -1 1/3), the external flash pictures were far superior for a number of reasons: (1) The external flash is so much more powerful that it could illuminate the background, whereas the built-in flash illuminated only the foreground and the subject; (2) It is much easier to bounce the external flash, eliminating the harsh shadows behind the subject; and (3) With the Omni-Bounce, I had the option of diffusing the external flash for softer lighting.

That said, I remain hopeful that somebody will share with us a magic formula or secret trick for getting the automatic flash metering to read correctly....
 
Hi Folks,

I have the D30 and 550EX. I was a frustrated flash user until I tried what was suggested on the CanonSLR forum.

Put camera in manual mode, yes manual, set aperture to a midrange, maybe F8 and speed to 200. Leave flash in ETTL mode and fire away.

Consistint, well exposed photographs. Not sure if this procedure would work with G2 but certainly worth a try.

Bill A
 
Hmmm.. D30... must be nice!;-)

Unfortunately, the G1 fires the flash full power whenever the camera is in manual mode. Ettl is disabled... with no way to enable it! Such a pitiful state of affairs! I can't speak for the G2 as I don't own one. Thanks for the suggestion though.
nahau
Bill A said:
Hi Folks,

I have the D30 and 550EX. I was a frustrated flash user until I
tried what was suggested on the CanonSLR forum.

Put camera in manual mode, yes manual, set aperture to a midrange,
maybe F8 and speed to 200. Leave flash in ETTL mode and fire away.
Consistint, well exposed photographs. Not sure if this procedure
would work with G2 but certainly worth a try.

Bill A
Click to expand...
 
No, the G2 doesn't do this Nahau. The G2 definitely acts different than the G1 with external flashes.
nahau said:
Hmmm.. D30... must be nice!;-)
Unfortunately, the G1 fires the flash full power whenever the
camera is in manual mode. Ettl is disabled... with no way to
enable it! Such a pitiful state of affairs! I can't speak for the
G2 as I don't own one. Thanks for the suggestion though.
nahau
Click to expand...
 
Hi Jason,

That's really nice to know! I'm glad canon fixed this on the G2... it's really a thorn in my side with the G1. It's very difficult to find a workaround and I know... at least I "think"... canon could probably update the G1 firmware if they "really" wanted to. Unforturnately, canon appears too greedy as this G1 flash issue has been going on for months with no response from canon.
nahau
Jason H. said:
nahau said:
Hmmm.. D30... must be nice!;-)
Unfortunately, the G1 fires the flash full power whenever the
camera is in manual mode. Ettl is disabled... with no way to
enable it! Such a pitiful state of affairs! I can't speak for the
G2 as I don't own one. Thanks for the suggestion though.
nahau
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi nahau,

don't get too excited though, in M mode G2 doesn't have ettl, but I can adjust manually at least. So a couple test shots are required for a good exposure, arrgh.
nahau said:
Jason H. said:
nahau said:
Hmmm.. D30... must be nice!;-)
Unfortunately, the G1 fires the flash full power whenever the
camera is in manual mode. Ettl is disabled... with no way to
enable it! Such a pitiful state of affairs! I can't speak for the
G2 as I don't own one. Thanks for the suggestion though.
nahau
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, Bill. Interestingly, on the G2 I thought that I noticed more consistent flash exposures with the ISO at 200 instead of 50 or even 100, but I wondered whether my eyes might be fooling me into seeing what I wanted to see. Maybe the camera's auto flash compensation is easily fooled into overcompensating for the "slow" iso?
Bill A said:
Hi Folks,

I have the D30 and 550EX. I was a frustrated flash user until I
tried what was suggested on the CanonSLR forum.

Put camera in manual mode, yes manual, set aperture to a midrange,
maybe F8 and speed to 200. Leave flash in ETTL mode and fire away.
Consistint, well exposed photographs. Not sure if this procedure
would work with G2 but certainly worth a try.

Bill A
Click to expand...
 
Borami said:
Hi nahau,

don't get too excited though, in M mode G2 doesn't have ettl, but I
can adjust manually at least. So a couple test shots are required
for a good exposure, arrgh.
Click to expand...
My G2 uses ETTL in manual mode with my 550EX. I use this combination more than half the time shooting indoors - set shutter to about 1/125, apeture to about 4.0 and bounce off the roof. The only time it hasnt worked is when the subject is too far away (ie. not enough flash power)

In any case, if you dont like the way ETTL produces inconsistient results (which I havent found btw), put the flash in manual mode and use a flashmeter - I find ettl more convenient, but maybe thats just me.
  • Stuart
 
Clark G. said:
Bill A said:
Hi Folks,

I have the D30 and 550EX. I was a frustrated flash user until I
tried what was suggested on the CanonSLR forum.

Put camera in manual mode, yes manual, set aperture to a midrange,
maybe F8 and speed to 200. Leave flash in ETTL mode and fire away.
Consistint, well exposed photographs. Not sure if this procedure
would work with G2 but certainly worth a try.

Bill A
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Unlike the majority of posters for this thread, I use a Metz 45CT4 as my main off camera flash gun. By setting it on auto at f5.6, and the G2 on manual at 60/f5.6, I get superb results without having to bother about ETTL. I also have the facility to set the ISO speed on the flash to adjust exposure when needed. The gun is linked to the hot shoe via the Metz SCA adapter I used for my EOS 100. The setup is nicely balanced, unlike the top heavy pairing of the other guns. When I have a bit more time I may upload some of the shots.

Don P
 
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