Does the D200 really outperform the D50?

bmcent1

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The recent talk of Nikon models and comparing them has me confused. I though I'd read enough posts to put the Nikon sensors into a hierarchy. I thought the D50 had the newest sensor technology and was considered to give the best IQ, no banding issues, lowest noise, etc.

Recent posts make me think I came to the wrong conclusion.

Is there any consensus, if image quality is the only priority and other features are ignored, which camera's sensor is best?

I practically ruled out buying a D200 or D2X but based on past posts, I didn't want to pay more and step down in image quality. Is this just something D50 owners delude ourselves with? :-)
 
I don't own either, I own a D70. So I haven't ever used either. That is my caveat.

It sounds to me that you have recently discovered digital photography, at least with hgher end equipment. Generically, a newer camera has the chance to have newer technology. A more expensive camera (hopefully) is constructed of better materials, and has more features. Since the D200 is newer and costs about 2.5 times what a D50 costs, it ought to outperform a D50 under a variety of circumstances. and I am sure that it does.

But the D50 is a great camera, have no doubts about that.

John Cerra
 
Is this just something D50 owners delude ourselves with? :-)
In a word, YES, simply look at the examples, the D50 is a fine camera and very groundbreaking in its price point, but do you really think its the flagship sensor offered by Nikon?

The D2X and D2Xs CMOS chips are very good sensors, the D200 CCD is as well. In fact, I sort of agree with Phil who in his glowing review of the D50 noted "Not as crisp (per pixel sharpness) as D70/D70s." and "The D50's sensor and image processing pipeline are clearly different to that of the D70/D70s, it exhibits fewer of the moire/maze artifacts but at the same time isn't quite as crisp as its 'elder siblings'."
Although finding any differences in web sized photos would be almost impossible.

Ted

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/
 
A D50 in the hand will always perform a D200 left on a shelf because one is afraid to lose it/drop it/have it stolen.

That being said, from what I've read the "banding" issues have been resolved.

From what I've read here: http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2_PC.html

it would appear that the D200 does a wonderful job of exposing bad glass/bringing out the the best in good glass. The same goes for the D2X.

From what I've read in D80 reviews, the D50 apparently does a better job than the D70 and D70S. I've got a D70 and while I've always meant to do A-B shots with that and some other digital point and shoots I have, I'm too busy taking pictures, while taking pictures, to do that.

I expect I'll pick up a D200 or D80 one day because those cameras do something that my D70 does not -- allow for in-camera multiple exposures.

I'm sure you'll get lots of technical answers posted to your question. I'll sit back with you and read them anxiously as well.
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'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'
 
nt
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'Better than a good equipment: a good eye and heart'
 
The D50 and D200 are entirely different cameras. The D200 is hands down, flat out, you can't go wrong...much better camera than the D50 in every dslr enthusiast regard.

The D50 produces some of the best JPEG images straight out of the camera as a result of its processing engine.
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Have a Great Day! Justin
 
Justin San Diego wrote:
The D50 produces some of the best JPEG images straight out of the
camera as a result of its processing engine.
... and some even better NEFs, try it and you'll see ( I did I have
the d70 as well )
 
Now what else would you expect? The D200 forum would have a bias there (I think Canon forums are biased towards their products.)
--
'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'
 
Dollar for dollar, the D50 DOES outperform many cameras in its own and higher price points. Looks as if the D80 is going to be sporting the D50's 420 segment sensor. Now why would this be? Pound for pound quality...that's why.

The D200 is a fine camera and has LOTS of features that I'd love to have. However, the D80 is a hybrid between the D50 and D200, and will hopefully, in many aspects, be better than both in a true balance between image quality and advanced features with multiple exposures being one of them. Build quality is something entirely different and the D200 will break the backs of the D50, D70s, and D80 in this regard. But of course, those looking to use the latter three cameras full time in non demanding environments usually don't need the heavy duty metal and sealed chassis of the D200....like myself.

I would guess that the next generation of cameras after the D200, etc., will sport a new sensor. The D70s sensor is very good, but has problems standing up to the D50/D80 sensor in regard to dynamic range and noise levels. It has been said a few times in the D200 forum that noise has been an issue for such an expensive camera.

As I've stated before, IMO, the D50 was made a little too well, and dominated the next price point up in terms of image quality.
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Dollar for dollar, it is the BEST Nikon has to offer. Hands down. However, feature and build wise, it does fall somewhat short to the D80, D200, and D2X. Image quality, I wouldn't be too sure. I'd like to see someone pick a few D50 images among a few D200 images. If it can't be done consistently, which is very likely the case, then there is your proof.
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http://cmvsm.zoto.com/galleries/favorites6227
 
The original poster put no dollar limit on the topic, he simply asked is the D50 sensor the best sensor offered in a Nikon camera, the answer to that question is an emphatic no. You say falls "somewhat short of the D2x" in build quality and features, my you do have a flair for understatement. Every one has an opinion so if thats truly yours, so be it. I have yet to see anything like this from a D50:





Both from one of Anthony Medici's fine pBase galleries.

While I am sure the D50 can get images similar to these, I dont think it could do so on a consistant basis and with anywhere near as much detail.

Honestly, look at the resolution numbers, the D50 is 1600, 1400 and 1850, the D2Xs is 2400, 2000, and 2800 respectively, thats almost twice the resolving power of the D50.
Remember, cost was not supposed to be a factor in this comparison.

Take care, Ted

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http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/
 
The recent talk of Nikon models and comparing them has me confused.
I though I'd read enough posts to put the Nikon sensors into a
hierarchy. I thought the D50 had the newest sensor technology and
was considered to give the best IQ, no banding issues, lowest
noise, etc.
The D50 has a very good sensor, and is quite capable of making great images, but what in the world has given you the impression that it is superior to the sensors of the D200, D2x?

First of all, IQ comes mainly from how you use the sensor, not the sensor by itself. This includes both the skills of the operator (that would be you :), and how data from the sensor is handled after it is lifted from the sensor.

The pro cameras (and I do include D200 in that group) and their sensors have a lot of properties that give them an edge. In my humble opinion, there are two main differences:

1. Sheer image size is one argument, others will fiercly deny this, and make elaborate arguments that image size really does not matter. But the simple truth is this: more pixels give you more oppurtunities to crop and work with images not originally well composed. I do own a D2H, and love it, but there are always images here and there where I did not work well and need to crop afterwards. Then I would love to have the 10 megapixels of the D200.

2. The D200 and D2X sensors does not have the same helpful built-in image processing around them. They give you much more unprocessed images out of the camera, meaning you are supposed to work with them, while the D50 is built to deliver images where as little after processing as possible is required. With the D50 you let the camera make much more desicions for you, where the D200/D2X let you (or force you) to make your own decisions.
Is there any consensus, if image quality is the only priority and
other features are ignored, which camera's sensor is best?
This is a strange reasoning -- You simply cannot ignore "other features" when discussing image quality because the sensor would be useless without all those "other features" surrounding it. Walking around with an insanely great but bare digital sensor in you hand will get you nowhere.

Take the shutter as an example. A D200 shutter wil by all likelyhood outlast a D50 shutter by a few houndred thousand accutations (give or take a few). You might argue that you do not plan to use it for several hundreds of thousands images, but there are people that will, and for them a D200 sensor will do a better job then the D50 sensor -- because a sensor behind a shutter that has broken down is pretty useless.

Or take speed, my D2H sensor might look inferior to a D50 sensor, but when you have clicked away four raw images and stand there waiting for the camera to finish writing on the card, I am still shooting another burst. And another. And another to my card is full. A sensor that cannot take pictures beacuse "the other features" are not up to the task is actually not a very useful sensor for that particular situation.
I practically ruled out buying a D200 or D2X but based on past
posts, I didn't want to pay more and step down in image quality. Is
this just something D50 owners delude ourselves with? :-)
The D50 is a great camera, and gives a tremendous value per dollar spent. You can take great images with it. But to think it is superior to the D200 and D2X, yes, that is most definately self delusion ... :-)
 
Grevture,

I have been reading this forum daily for about a month gathering info on "what's best" "buy this not that" etc as I am about to enter the higher end DSL market. Your response is the most practical and logical response regarding the subject that I have read thus far. Really helps. Thanks

Tony
 
Thanks for the excellent responses. It makes sense, in hindsight, but it's nice to hear from people in the know.

For a couple people that wondered, I wanted know about only the sensor for a couple reasons. I shoot exclusively RAW so I'm not interested in WB, tone, custom curves, or in camera multi-exposure... all things I do in RAW conversion or PP. From Nikon's site, it seems the pro cameras do some image processing pre A/D conversion, so it seems there is some optimization being done on the RAW file and maybe this is one edge the pro cams have over the D50.

I've been a computer nut (when not being a photo geek) forever. We've all seen CPU generations obsolete each other so quickly, and sensor fabs have a lot in common with chip fabs. Eventually I will step up to a pro camera, and want to be sure newer sensors haven't leapfrogged older versions in the pro cameras. With the D2X being 2 years old now, it's hard to imagine it's sensor/software being so good then that it still beats the new products this year and has some useful lifespan left.

The D200 may be a the next sweet spot for me. If buying one used, is there anything to look out for like a certain serial number or firmware version to make sure you get a good copy? Or can any of them be upgraded to the fixed software with a CF firmware upgrade?

Again, thanks for the replies, very informative!
 
Regardless of if you shoot RAW or not, the shutter, focus motor, metering system, memory bandwidth/bus, and internal processor speed and quality all are very important to image quality. While the D2X might be a year or so old, the D2Xs was just anounced a couple months ago. If you have not held a D2X up to your eye you havent seen the best Nikon has to offer, just looking though it you can see obvious differences, the viewfinder is way nicer than the D70/D50, and yes, even the viewfinder will help image quality in that very minute focus errors etc will be visible. Keep in mind we are talking about a $4000+ camera here.

Take care, Ted
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http://photobucket.com/albums/y260/tdkd13/
 
Slap some nice glass on the D50, and you'll see it perform. For you to even bring the D50 into the same price/quality class as the D2X, that's says everything, especially given the fact that you could buy almost 10 D50's for the same price as one D2X.

Unless you are cropping the images, I'd like to see your "resolve" allow you to pick images from the D50 to the D200 to the D2X consistently. This of course would mean that they would all have to have the same lens. Let's choose the Nikon 70-200VR.

Now, I'm not insulting the D2X at all. It is a fine camera and has features and benefits far above that of the D50, D80, or D200 that is much more suited to the pros and prosumers alike. However, you can hide behind the "he didn't say anything about price" comment, which is absolutely ridiculous. Its ALWAYS about price and the return on investment. To the average user, the D50 dominates in that category among all Nikon cameras in my opinion. I'm not pro user, so take it for what its worth.

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http://cmvsm.zoto.com/galleries/favorites6227
 

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