The other Larry
Senior Member
Very good question Pondria.
LM
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LM
Michael Eckstein
Senior Member
I have dealt with B&H for many years...Purchased my D30 there as well. I have never had a problem that they didn't resolve quickly and fairly. If you have a problem with any item that you purchase from them they will replace it or refund your money. I don't think you could ask for more than that. I guess some people are never satisfied. Oh well I guess that's life!
Or at least until the same thing happens from your new supplier.
Nonetheless,
Have a safe and Happy Holiday season.
Cameras & Cocktails......(from the Been there Bar & Done that Grill)
JRS
Mike Flaherty
Senior Member
Wow! How very unfortunate. Just send it back and I believe B&H will take care of it. However, based on your experience, I doubt I'd instantly say that they "suck." I'd reserve that type of talk for something more substantial (like them not making this obvious error right). My advice is to cool your jets for now. Happy Holidays.
Mike Flaherty
Mike Flaherty
--Mike Flaherty
Mike Flaherty
Senior Member
Yes. I think that product does not get recycled back to us. Nevertheless, I'm sure it has happened on occasion. Most likely, by an employee taking it upon himself/herself to break their company policy. I doubt you'll find a reputable company with a policy that permits recycling returned goods to buyers expecting brand new stuff.
Of course it does and it
High-volume retailers have established agreements with manufacturers to take back defects and returns. Failing that, reputable retailers will offer returned merchandise for sale as returned merchandise.
There have been threads of late telling of
No. I don't think so.
or are we willing to accept the fact we
No. I don't think so.
If shops held to
Not me. I only buy and will only accept new and unopened merchandise.
Mike Flaherty
(Except for the person who looses
--Mike Flaherty
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
No, we're open. We're closed Dec 25th, and I'll be at my brother-in-law's eating Christmas dinner.B&H is closed on Dec.24. I wonder what those guys will be doing...
wrapping gifts for Santa perhaps...
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
We apologize for the oversight. According to our database, you called Dec 24th to tell us the rebate form is missing. We will mail one, but you can download the form at
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Joe Nonneman67408
Member
This thread, IMHO, shows how much B&H is respected. If someone posted 'Broadway Photo Sucks' they would probably get a call from Duh Magazine to submit an article and zero responses in the forum. When someone says this about B&H there are 124 responses so far, most of them defending B&H. B&H has a following like a rock band, which is very unusual for a mail order firm. I have probably placed twenty orders over the last five years and have had no problems whatsoever. Sometimes B&H was the only place I could find a particular piece of merchandise available at all.
Brian Mackey
Veteran Member
No argument there, smaller companies can be thankful and helpful and make you all warm and fuzzy, thats why I only deal with 2 when possible Berger Brothers camera, and Norman Camera.. Both have over 20 employees and their moods dont change with the alignment of the planets
I wouldnt buy from B&H now if they offered, however, accidents do happen, and no one is perfect. I hope Delta keeps their present attitude towards customer's, B&H is too big to care about anyone...
I guess its safe to say though that if Delta messes up, you will be looking once again for a new dealer... Merry Holidays
I wouldnt buy from B&H now if they offered, however, accidents do happen, and no one is perfect. I hope Delta keeps their present attitude towards customer's, B&H is too big to care about anyone...
I guess its safe to say though that if Delta messes up, you will be looking once again for a new dealer... Merry Holidays
-- http://members.home.net/mackey135/njdigitalservices.htm 'I have discovered digital photography' Livin life at 5 megapixels!
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
Rather than reply to each of the now 100+ messages in this thread, here's (hopefully) one reply to all of them, more or less in order.
At the outset, we are certainly sorry when any customer is dissatisfied with any aspect of a transaction with us and appreciate all manner of constructive criticism and comments which let us see ourselves through our customers' eyes. We strive daily to be better than the day before.
That said ...
I cannot identify Yatin Chachad's transaction at all, nor can I identify him as a customer. I searched under his last name, under the possibility that we swapped first and last names and under his e-mail address all to no avail. I then presumed that since this is the Canon forum the lens in question was a Canon 50/1.4 EF, so I checked every RMA# issued during December for this lens. Nothing. There's no one named "Chachad" in our system. I can't apologize or explain or do anything meaningful. If Mr. Chachad wishes, he can e-mail he ([email protected]) with his transaction data and I'll be happy to confirm and, if appropriate, apologize.
"The difficulty in having to hire, train and manage the extra help during this time would be challenging."
B&H does not hire additional seasonal sales associates.
" Does B&H ever repack, or do they just toss it back into inventory?"
We are very strict about returned merchandise. Each piece is individually inspected. That means that when the customer's parcel gets to us, it's unpacked by our staff, each piece inspected and then the whole thing repacked. If it's in as-new condition, according to our strict standards, it's returned to inventory. If not, depending on circumstances, it's marked "open box" and sold that way at a discount, or returned to the customer.
We have a 14-day (photo) or 7-day (digital & video) no-questions-asked return policy with no restock fee. If we refused to accept returned items which are in as-new condition, either the return policy would quickly get much less liberal, or a restock fee would be applied to each item. We don't consider this customer-friendly at all.
"Na na na Jeff. Having worked in the Retail business (electronics) I can say without hesitation that a
"legitimate" and well run retail store DOES NOT just recycle their returned merchandise. "
Na na yourself. Today's the day after Christmas and all over America people are returning sweaters, toaster ovens, gloves and mittens, cameras, and so on. In the vast majority of cases, if the returned item is in as-new condition, it's reshelved to be resold as brand new merchandise. We're one block from Macy's and I go over there every week or so to see how they operate. One of my siblings is a former executive with Lord & Taylor and now works in management for Brooks Brothers. They do the same. Another of my siblings is an independent manufacturers' rep for numerous high-end giftware lines, repping to retailers throughout the NY-NJ-CT metro area. Every retailer with whom he does business does the same. In the USA, returned merchandise which is in new condition and represents an item currently offered for sale is returned to the retail store to be sold as new. Simple, legal & ethical.
"The old Computer City did this (and a large reason why I feel they went out of business and sold out to COMPUSA). "
Nope. They had cash flow problems because of too much corporate debt.
" major hardware from B&H can and is often pulled
from a shelf to show a customer and let them play with it, or for all we know have returned items in
good condition are sold as new"
Hmmmmmmmmmm. The merchandise on our store shelves which is used to demo to store customers is manufacturer-owned demo stuff and is not sold to customers. Infrequently a customer asks to see an item which is not on a shelf and one is called from the warehouse. If the customer declines to buy, it's repackaged by the sales associate and returned to the warehouse. Ever try on a sweater or suit and decline to buy it?
"Meanwhile, the "policy" info that M.P. mentioned can help everyone know what-to-expect, at-least. "
Unless you read about B&H's policy from ME you're reading speculation.
"An item can be dropped and damaged (with NO "apparent" harm), ever-so-slightly mis-aligning elements, and creating sub-spec performance..."
This could as easily happen while the item is on a truck in transit to us.
"However, with the kind of volume they do, some things will go wrong and errors will happen. The issue here is what's their general policy on returned or open merchandise. A fair evaluation would include B&H's official policy statement on the issue. Anyone know what it is?...
That might be a question for Henry Posner. "
You'd think, yet the thread exceeded 100 entries before someone was kind enough to send the URL to me.
"Although the management and virtually the entire staff (with a few exceptions) are Orthodox Jews, "
Ignoring the issue of WHO CARES ABOUT RACE? The fact is that while our owner is an orthodox Jew, a significant percentage of our staff is made up of all sorts of folks. I'm in management and I'm a died-in-the-wool Deadhead, and that's about the ONLY thing I'm orthodox about.
"Its best not to argue with fools."
Now, THAT'S good advice.
(BTW – I am letting the whole new-car conversation slide by.)
Henry Posner
B&H Photo
(see part 2 of 2 for the rest)
At the outset, we are certainly sorry when any customer is dissatisfied with any aspect of a transaction with us and appreciate all manner of constructive criticism and comments which let us see ourselves through our customers' eyes. We strive daily to be better than the day before.
That said ...
I cannot identify Yatin Chachad's transaction at all, nor can I identify him as a customer. I searched under his last name, under the possibility that we swapped first and last names and under his e-mail address all to no avail. I then presumed that since this is the Canon forum the lens in question was a Canon 50/1.4 EF, so I checked every RMA# issued during December for this lens. Nothing. There's no one named "Chachad" in our system. I can't apologize or explain or do anything meaningful. If Mr. Chachad wishes, he can e-mail he ([email protected]) with his transaction data and I'll be happy to confirm and, if appropriate, apologize.
"The difficulty in having to hire, train and manage the extra help during this time would be challenging."
B&H does not hire additional seasonal sales associates.
" Does B&H ever repack, or do they just toss it back into inventory?"
We are very strict about returned merchandise. Each piece is individually inspected. That means that when the customer's parcel gets to us, it's unpacked by our staff, each piece inspected and then the whole thing repacked. If it's in as-new condition, according to our strict standards, it's returned to inventory. If not, depending on circumstances, it's marked "open box" and sold that way at a discount, or returned to the customer.
We have a 14-day (photo) or 7-day (digital & video) no-questions-asked return policy with no restock fee. If we refused to accept returned items which are in as-new condition, either the return policy would quickly get much less liberal, or a restock fee would be applied to each item. We don't consider this customer-friendly at all.
"Na na na Jeff. Having worked in the Retail business (electronics) I can say without hesitation that a
"legitimate" and well run retail store DOES NOT just recycle their returned merchandise. "
Na na yourself. Today's the day after Christmas and all over America people are returning sweaters, toaster ovens, gloves and mittens, cameras, and so on. In the vast majority of cases, if the returned item is in as-new condition, it's reshelved to be resold as brand new merchandise. We're one block from Macy's and I go over there every week or so to see how they operate. One of my siblings is a former executive with Lord & Taylor and now works in management for Brooks Brothers. They do the same. Another of my siblings is an independent manufacturers' rep for numerous high-end giftware lines, repping to retailers throughout the NY-NJ-CT metro area. Every retailer with whom he does business does the same. In the USA, returned merchandise which is in new condition and represents an item currently offered for sale is returned to the retail store to be sold as new. Simple, legal & ethical.
"The old Computer City did this (and a large reason why I feel they went out of business and sold out to COMPUSA). "
Nope. They had cash flow problems because of too much corporate debt.
" major hardware from B&H can and is often pulled
from a shelf to show a customer and let them play with it, or for all we know have returned items in
good condition are sold as new"
Hmmmmmmmmmm. The merchandise on our store shelves which is used to demo to store customers is manufacturer-owned demo stuff and is not sold to customers. Infrequently a customer asks to see an item which is not on a shelf and one is called from the warehouse. If the customer declines to buy, it's repackaged by the sales associate and returned to the warehouse. Ever try on a sweater or suit and decline to buy it?
"Meanwhile, the "policy" info that M.P. mentioned can help everyone know what-to-expect, at-least. "
Unless you read about B&H's policy from ME you're reading speculation.
"An item can be dropped and damaged (with NO "apparent" harm), ever-so-slightly mis-aligning elements, and creating sub-spec performance..."
This could as easily happen while the item is on a truck in transit to us.
"However, with the kind of volume they do, some things will go wrong and errors will happen. The issue here is what's their general policy on returned or open merchandise. A fair evaluation would include B&H's official policy statement on the issue. Anyone know what it is?...
That might be a question for Henry Posner. "
You'd think, yet the thread exceeded 100 entries before someone was kind enough to send the URL to me.
"Although the management and virtually the entire staff (with a few exceptions) are Orthodox Jews, "
Ignoring the issue of WHO CARES ABOUT RACE? The fact is that while our owner is an orthodox Jew, a significant percentage of our staff is made up of all sorts of folks. I'm in management and I'm a died-in-the-wool Deadhead, and that's about the ONLY thing I'm orthodox about.
"Its best not to argue with fools."
Now, THAT'S good advice.
(BTW – I am letting the whole new-car conversation slide by.)
Henry Posner
B&H Photo
(see part 2 of 2 for the rest)
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
"Its best not to argue with fools."
Now, THAT'S good advice.
(BTW – I am letting the whole new-car conversation slide by.)
"Today I got a 100mm macro lens, 550EX flash and ST-E2 from them, all factory shrink wrapped..."
In the 7 years I've been at B&H and the 20+ I worked as a full-time photographer before that, I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of photo products I've ever seen which came in either a shrink-wrapped or otherwise sealed container. BTW – shrink wrapping machines are readily available and dirt-cheap. Anyone who uses shrink-wrapping as an indication of a product's brand-new condition is fooling himself.
"I'm a flyrod builder. Folks take my rods out in the yard to cast to see if they are what they want. The rod is still new when they bring them back into the shop. I sell them as new and my customers regard them as new.I"
The place where I buy running shoes lets you put them on, take them outside and jog around the block a couple of times. If you don't buy them, they go back to the warehouse and the next person can buy them if they like. Never had a problem with them in 20+ years.
"I recieved delivery confirmation two weeks ago & am still waiting for the credit on my credit card. We are talking about $4000.00 they owe me."
Since this involves private issues regarding this individual's transaction I have replied privately rather than post what some might misconstrue as publishing private data. Suffice it to say that each item the customer returned has been credited promptly and completely. In some cases, it takes our bank some time to notify the customer's bank and some time for the customer's bank to notify him. This is in accordance with the uniform Commercial Code. Every deposit a check you couldn't draw against for several days? The Federal gov't lets them take some time.
"Seems BH gets bad rep come holiday time. I wonder how much of this stems from the hiring of seasonal workers who don't know jack"
Actually, we never hire seasonal workers. And, I don't think one chap complaining about fingerprints on his warranty card (who fingerprints warranty cards anyway? Is this a new episode of CSI?) constitutes "bad rep."
"Or a $15. CD can be wrapped in cello. Know what I mean? There seems to be something else at work here other than margins."
Theft protection.
"D30. I thought the whole thing was trying to sell the more expensive products?
Not at all, for a couple of reasons. First, the more expensive product may well NOT be the more profitable. Second, at B&H none of our sales staff knows which is the more profitable, nor do they work on commission, nor do we hold any sort of high-sale-of-the-day or most-volume-of-the-week contests. Our guys get judged on two things – product knowledge and customer satisfaction.
"You would thing the added packaging would actually help them by minimizing damaged items and hence losing profit."
ROFL It took two years for us to get some of the manufacturers to agree on bar coding and we did all the research and handed each of them a big envelope with the whole package practically gift wrapped.
"This sort of thing is called fraud and it is against the law. "
I'm not a lawyer but I play one online, is that it? Fraud is against the law, but whether this constitutes fraud is IMHO not something most of those here have the background and education to define legally.
"I believe it would me much different if they were simply guilty of shipping items that were examined in store..."
This refers to a different thread and I will post to that one there.
" contacted Henri who was the Customer service manager (funny how you don't forget certain names) "
The only Henry here is me, and I am Director of Sales and Training. The customer service manager is named David. There is no "Henri" here at all. Funny how your memory plays tricks with you about certain names.
From Brian Mackey:
"Personally, I have only been screwed by B&H on shipping charges, hmm and it happended 2 times, seems like a pattern I wouldnt want to continue to "try my luck" with.. "
Brian, we discussed this via e-mail. Now, we won't "try our luck" with you anymore. I'm not inclined to go into details, but I can if you want me to.
In closing, we sincerely regret any customer's dissatisfaction. There seem to be four main customers here – the original poster, Yatin Chachad, whom I cannot identify in our database at all; Steve Mitchell, who began a separate thread about his issue and whom I will answer there; Brian who alleges we screwed him on shipping, but who isn't shopping at B&H anymore due to our decision; and Mr. Morton who's concerned about his refund and to whom I have sent private e-mail.
For those who posted compliments, expressions of faith or support and positive experiences, please accept our gratitude. For the others – we appreciate the opportunity to improve and strive to do so. Perhaps next time we can be given this opportunity in a significantly shorter thread though?
Happy New Year to each of you.
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Now, THAT'S good advice.
(BTW – I am letting the whole new-car conversation slide by.)
"Today I got a 100mm macro lens, 550EX flash and ST-E2 from them, all factory shrink wrapped..."
In the 7 years I've been at B&H and the 20+ I worked as a full-time photographer before that, I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of photo products I've ever seen which came in either a shrink-wrapped or otherwise sealed container. BTW – shrink wrapping machines are readily available and dirt-cheap. Anyone who uses shrink-wrapping as an indication of a product's brand-new condition is fooling himself.
"I'm a flyrod builder. Folks take my rods out in the yard to cast to see if they are what they want. The rod is still new when they bring them back into the shop. I sell them as new and my customers regard them as new.I"
The place where I buy running shoes lets you put them on, take them outside and jog around the block a couple of times. If you don't buy them, they go back to the warehouse and the next person can buy them if they like. Never had a problem with them in 20+ years.
"I recieved delivery confirmation two weeks ago & am still waiting for the credit on my credit card. We are talking about $4000.00 they owe me."
Since this involves private issues regarding this individual's transaction I have replied privately rather than post what some might misconstrue as publishing private data. Suffice it to say that each item the customer returned has been credited promptly and completely. In some cases, it takes our bank some time to notify the customer's bank and some time for the customer's bank to notify him. This is in accordance with the uniform Commercial Code. Every deposit a check you couldn't draw against for several days? The Federal gov't lets them take some time.
"Seems BH gets bad rep come holiday time. I wonder how much of this stems from the hiring of seasonal workers who don't know jack"
Actually, we never hire seasonal workers. And, I don't think one chap complaining about fingerprints on his warranty card (who fingerprints warranty cards anyway? Is this a new episode of CSI?) constitutes "bad rep."
"Or a $15. CD can be wrapped in cello. Know what I mean? There seems to be something else at work here other than margins."
Theft protection.
"D30. I thought the whole thing was trying to sell the more expensive products?
Not at all, for a couple of reasons. First, the more expensive product may well NOT be the more profitable. Second, at B&H none of our sales staff knows which is the more profitable, nor do they work on commission, nor do we hold any sort of high-sale-of-the-day or most-volume-of-the-week contests. Our guys get judged on two things – product knowledge and customer satisfaction.
"You would thing the added packaging would actually help them by minimizing damaged items and hence losing profit."
ROFL It took two years for us to get some of the manufacturers to agree on bar coding and we did all the research and handed each of them a big envelope with the whole package practically gift wrapped.
"This sort of thing is called fraud and it is against the law. "
I'm not a lawyer but I play one online, is that it? Fraud is against the law, but whether this constitutes fraud is IMHO not something most of those here have the background and education to define legally.
"I believe it would me much different if they were simply guilty of shipping items that were examined in store..."
This refers to a different thread and I will post to that one there.
" contacted Henri who was the Customer service manager (funny how you don't forget certain names) "
The only Henry here is me, and I am Director of Sales and Training. The customer service manager is named David. There is no "Henri" here at all. Funny how your memory plays tricks with you about certain names.
From Brian Mackey:
"Personally, I have only been screwed by B&H on shipping charges, hmm and it happended 2 times, seems like a pattern I wouldnt want to continue to "try my luck" with.. "
Brian, we discussed this via e-mail. Now, we won't "try our luck" with you anymore. I'm not inclined to go into details, but I can if you want me to.
In closing, we sincerely regret any customer's dissatisfaction. There seem to be four main customers here – the original poster, Yatin Chachad, whom I cannot identify in our database at all; Steve Mitchell, who began a separate thread about his issue and whom I will answer there; Brian who alleges we screwed him on shipping, but who isn't shopping at B&H anymore due to our decision; and Mr. Morton who's concerned about his refund and to whom I have sent private e-mail.
For those who posted compliments, expressions of faith or support and positive experiences, please accept our gratitude. For the others – we appreciate the opportunity to improve and strive to do so. Perhaps next time we can be given this opportunity in a significantly shorter thread though?
Happy New Year to each of you.
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
R
Roger Levit
Guest
I have seen a lot of complaint answers in my oh so short life, but it is quite obvious that you (and B&H) are a first-class act.
I can say this because I ordered a new camera a few months back and received what was obviously a used camera (the digital folder was at 900). When I called B&H they checked their records and told me that it was indeed a used camera, apologized, had it picked up and my money refunded with out a single argument.
Mistakes happen every day because we (ALL of us) are imperfect human beings. It is how we handle the mistakes that makes the difference.
Roger Levit
I can say this because I ordered a new camera a few months back and received what was obviously a used camera (the digital folder was at 900). When I called B&H they checked their records and told me that it was indeed a used camera, apologized, had it picked up and my money refunded with out a single argument.
Mistakes happen every day because we (ALL of us) are imperfect human beings. It is how we handle the mistakes that makes the difference.
Roger Levit
Steve Mitchell
Senior Member
--Steve Mitchellwww.boxcarstudios.com
L
Lee Rothman
Guest
HOLY CRUD! Am I IMPRESSED or WHAT! What a gentleman to return the anwer to what we have been beating our gums about. That is extraordinarily professional to say the least. While I can't agree with each and every thing that was said, I would at least go along with the majority. And while I have been teased here plenty about the shrink wrap issue (and European Seal), I still feel a tad more comfortable with the "other" vendor I work closely with on Major stuff such as L lenses and the like. I just need to feel more in touch with the person that is picking it off the shelf. I suppose I'll just resign myself to realize that while i still believe strongly that it is possible to get "unmolested" product right from the factory distributor (not via other customer trials or pawing), it just comes down to what any individual feels comfortable with. I, just this week made 2 purchases from B&H and am not concerned about them as they are just filters, hoods and a lens bag. I truly appreciate Mr. Posner's efforts to clear the air on their image, I still view them as professionals. Just not ready to deal with the big stuff from them yet. For those several folks that replied NO on my poll/post (of the Lord knows how many replied YES), please don't give me any more grief. We can all buy from whom we choose and still remain friends here.
Steve Mitchell
Senior Member
Also, Henry, I have not started any threads concerning this issue, only participated in them.
This is being reposted because I did such a horrible job in attempting to insert my replies on my previous post.
--Steve Mitchellwww.boxcarstudios.com
@Dan.com
Senior Member
I'm writing from Dallas, Texas. This weekend, a local radio talk show host I really respect was talking about what he does and dosn't buy on-line. He said he buys books from Amazon.com and his studio equipment from B&H. He said he really likes their professionalism and quality of products.
Wow, was I surprised to here B&H was so popular amongst professionals other than photographers.
Well done Henry.
Regards,
Dan
Wow, was I surprised to here B&H was so popular amongst professionals other than photographers.
Well done Henry.
Regards,
Dan
Michael Porter
Leading Member
Thanks Henry,
I have bought photo and video equipment from B&H for many years. They have always been top drawer in my book. In fact, I have two packages in transit from them right now.
I was very sorry to see the "B&H sucks" phrase appear over and over again in the subject of this thread. IMHO, It was inappropriate, unfair, and misleading to people who didn't take the time to read the whole thread.
What am I going to do about it? When I make my next purchase, I'm going to remember this thread and buy from B&H.
Bottom line, I trust B&H. Keep up the good work!
--Michael Porter
I have bought photo and video equipment from B&H for many years. They have always been top drawer in my book. In fact, I have two packages in transit from them right now.
I was very sorry to see the "B&H sucks" phrase appear over and over again in the subject of this thread. IMHO, It was inappropriate, unfair, and misleading to people who didn't take the time to read the whole thread.
What am I going to do about it? When I make my next purchase, I'm going to remember this thread and buy from B&H.
Bottom line, I trust B&H. Keep up the good work!
--Michael Porter
Steve Mitchell
Senior Member
Mistakes happen. Everyone makes mistakes. I did not feel your company did an acceptable job to rectify the situation. As I mentioned earlier I have made several other purchases since that event. I have had no other negative experiences. I'm glad you're there.
And I don't understand why you stated I started a thread concerning B&H?
Best of Luck--Steve Mitchellwww.boxcarstudios.com
Larry H. Smith
Veteran Member
Henry,
(minor "quibble" below)
Sincere thanks for the illumination. Knowing that B&H's policies are as you have described them has reassured me that they are whom I will choose when I spend $20-30,000 on "going digital" (probably Canon) in the next year.
This is a very-considerable sum to me, as I am not a pro. It is retirement money, which will not replace-itself, and is an expenditure-of-love, so-to-speak. So I intend to spend it wisely, and will definitely be relying on dealer-integrity to help me do-so.
I have read all your recent posts, but am replying to this one, because of a small point regarding your use of a quoted-portion of one of my previous posts.
First, let me say that I believe all your points are well taken, and that they answer as many concerns as can reasonably BE answered, by any dealer. Of course, there is no such thing as a disappointment-free world, and it is enough for-me to know that a dealer has adopted his policies with his "heart in the right place". The fact that "things will happen", is no big deal, if the parties-involved both sincerely intend to make-things-right. Your posts leave me expecting this to be-the-case with B&H.
Now, ...about the quibble....
Here is the statement you have quoted from my post, and your "answering' comment:
I was discussing(and said-so) the potential for damage to items REMOVED FROM it's packaging, in the home of a "trial" customer, and not "supervised" by dealer personnel.
I think you will agree that the protective "foam" cushioning that I also mentioned as packaging will insure that, with reasonable-care, the truck-damage will NOT occur "as easily", as damage to a completely UNPROTECTED "opened" item in the hands of a possibly careless "customer". (And if it did, the package-damage might serve to "flag" the occurence.)
If we want to take the other extreme-view, the item COULD also be crushed by a forklift before ever leaving the mfg.. This has no relevance to the point I was making.
A minor detail, to-be-sure. But an accurate distinction, I believe, between the two situations described.
Nothing about this "correction" changes the overall picture at-all, of course.
I am delighted that you have taken the time to respond, and am sure others appreciate it as much as I do. I have mentioned your response in another related-thread (the "poll"), and hope everyone concerned with this issue will see it.
The 100 posts(or more, considering the several recent threads) that you mention indicate the level of interest/concern among list members and, of course, other non-list customers as-well.
It is a credit to yourself and B&H that you took-note, and thought it worth addressing here. Thank you again!
Larry
(minor "quibble" below)
Sincere thanks for the illumination. Knowing that B&H's policies are as you have described them has reassured me that they are whom I will choose when I spend $20-30,000 on "going digital" (probably Canon) in the next year.
This is a very-considerable sum to me, as I am not a pro. It is retirement money, which will not replace-itself, and is an expenditure-of-love, so-to-speak. So I intend to spend it wisely, and will definitely be relying on dealer-integrity to help me do-so.
I have read all your recent posts, but am replying to this one, because of a small point regarding your use of a quoted-portion of one of my previous posts.
First, let me say that I believe all your points are well taken, and that they answer as many concerns as can reasonably BE answered, by any dealer. Of course, there is no such thing as a disappointment-free world, and it is enough for-me to know that a dealer has adopted his policies with his "heart in the right place". The fact that "things will happen", is no big deal, if the parties-involved both sincerely intend to make-things-right. Your posts leave me expecting this to be-the-case with B&H.
Now, ...about the quibble....
Here is the statement you have quoted from my post, and your "answering' comment:
Taking my remark out-of-context obscures an apple/orange distinction, I believe. (* and I question the use of the words "as easily")
I was discussing(and said-so) the potential for damage to items REMOVED FROM it's packaging, in the home of a "trial" customer, and not "supervised" by dealer personnel.
I think you will agree that the protective "foam" cushioning that I also mentioned as packaging will insure that, with reasonable-care, the truck-damage will NOT occur "as easily", as damage to a completely UNPROTECTED "opened" item in the hands of a possibly careless "customer". (And if it did, the package-damage might serve to "flag" the occurence.)
If we want to take the other extreme-view, the item COULD also be crushed by a forklift before ever leaving the mfg.. This has no relevance to the point I was making.
A minor detail, to-be-sure. But an accurate distinction, I believe, between the two situations described.
Nothing about this "correction" changes the overall picture at-all, of course.
I am delighted that you have taken the time to respond, and am sure others appreciate it as much as I do. I have mentioned your response in another related-thread (the "poll"), and hope everyone concerned with this issue will see it.
The 100 posts(or more, considering the several recent threads) that you mention indicate the level of interest/concern among list members and, of course, other non-list customers as-well.
It is a credit to yourself and B&H that you took-note, and thought it worth addressing here. Thank you again!
Larry
Henry P.,"Its best not to argue with fools."
Now, THAT'S good advice.
(BTW – I am letting the whole new-car conversation slide by.)
"Today I got a 100mm macro lens, 550EX flash and ST-E2 from them,
all factory shrink wrapped..."
In the 7 years I've been at B&H and the 20+ I worked as a full-time
photographer before that, I think I can count on the fingers of one
hand the number of photo products I've ever seen which came in
either a shrink-wrapped or otherwise sealed container. BTW – shrink
wrapping machines are readily available and dirt-cheap. Anyone who
uses shrink-wrapping as an indication of a product's brand-new
condition is fooling himself.
"I'm a flyrod builder. Folks take my rods out in the yard to cast
to see if they are what they want. The rod is still new when they
bring them back into the shop. I sell them as new and my customers
regard them as new.I"
The place where I buy running shoes lets you put them on, take them
outside and jog around the block a couple of times. If you don't
buy them, they go back to the warehouse and the next person can buy
them if they like. Never had a problem with them in 20+ years.
"I recieved delivery confirmation two weeks ago & am still waiting
for the credit on my credit card. We are talking about $4000.00
they owe me."
Since this involves private issues regarding this individual's
transaction I have replied privately rather than post what some
might misconstrue as publishing private data. Suffice it to say
that each item the customer returned has been credited promptly and
completely. In some cases, it takes our bank some time to notify
the customer's bank and some time for the customer's bank to notify
him. This is in accordance with the uniform Commercial Code. Every
deposit a check you couldn't draw against for several days? The
Federal gov't lets them take some time.
"Seems BH gets bad rep come holiday time. I wonder how much of this
stems from the hiring of seasonal workers who don't know jack"
Actually, we never hire seasonal workers. And, I don't think one
chap complaining about fingerprints on his warranty card (who
fingerprints warranty cards anyway? Is this a new episode of CSI?)
constitutes "bad rep."
"Or a $15. CD can be wrapped in cello. Know what I mean? There
seems to be something else at work here other than margins."
Theft protection.
"D30. I thought the whole thing was trying to sell the more
expensive products?
Not at all, for a couple of reasons. First, the more expensive
product may well NOT be the more profitable. Second, at B&H none of
our sales staff knows which is the more profitable, nor do they
work on commission, nor do we hold any sort of high-sale-of-the-day
or most-volume-of-the-week contests. Our guys get judged on two
things – product knowledge and customer satisfaction.
Wow, I would like to work for you, but is that 'product
knowledge' thing really important or could I get away with
lots o' 'customer satisfaction'????????????
Have a safe and Happy Holiday season along with a Happy
and Prosperous(!) New Year.
Cameras & Cocktails......(from a teeny-tiny retailer to a Godzillaesque
retailer)
JRS
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