August: the Canon vs Nikon war will heat up

No, dotcomeditor was right.

Competition is not the same as war. If you want a war I can direct to quite a few places, but digital photography is not one of them
Among the dumbest posts I've seen in two years.

Companies develop new products. That's what they do.
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When I ask which Canon lenses are best,
people tell me to 'go to L.'
Yes, but they develop those products due pressure from their
rivals, and not not lose market share. If Nikon wasn't in the
market, then I'm sure we'd still be on the 20D, and with a price
closer to $2k.

Did you ever take economics class , and learned about competition?
I think yours is among the dumbest replies I've seen in 2 years.
 
Very true, Canon needs an entry level sub $500 camera. I know you can still get the old rebel for about $500 from B&H. But who wants the old rebel when you can get a nice Pentax with 2.5" screen for about the same.

I'm hoping Canon intro's something cheap, because I will be getting my daughter a dslr for Christmas, and Canon just doesn't have anything in the low price range that is exceptable. I'm hoping for a 6-8mp with 2.5" LCD for under $500 this fall.
 
I think this fall will be very boring for most Canon users. Sure maybe a new Rebel, but the big new feature will be a larger LCD I picture styles, other than that it will be the same Rebel that is already on the market.

Yes Canon will probably release a new 1 Ds MK II, again maybe nice for pros with a lot of money, but not a camera I really care about.

Canon seems to have dug a hole, they are working on this great new future technology, but they can't really give product specifics or it will kill current sales. We probably won't see anything really interesting for consumers from Canon until next spring - at the earliest.

I would guess this is why chuck did that interview, throw out a few bones to try and keep us excited, but personally vague statements with no specifics really doesn't do much for me. Be interesting to see when Canon gets back on top of its game.
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Ed
http://www.cbrycelea.com/photos/
 
In other words, what benefit would the sports shooter get when
going full frame? They lose added reach and incur more noise. So
why would they want it?
A 22mp FF would gain them reach.
As a sports shooter myself, I would much rather see a 1.6 crop body
with faster focusing, better burst. I don't see what benefit a
full frame would give me.
It isn't the crop factor, but the pixel density that matters there.

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-CW
 
Canon will bring out a new 1.3 camera priced at near the 200D cost, as well as a travel lens of around 18-125/200. It will have 12 megs, not be sealed, and take regular lenses. My 19-35 Tokina will become a 25-45 , very nice, thank-you Canon, and I can sell my 17-85 to a Rebel shooter. Then they will update the S80, call it something new, and put the IS on it. Perfect! Thanks Canon, bring it on, my $$'s on you !! Cheers, and Merry Christmas to me and a many thousands of other shooters! ;)
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Life is about choices...See Cuba: http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com
 
Why does everyone want poster size prints. I have just returned from Bali armed with a 30D,Sigma 10-20mm lens and Canon 50 mm and I was far from bored. The 30D is amazing in low light. The 50mm lens allowed me to capture dancers using natural fire light with noise free images,excellent saturation and crisp quality.

I cannot wait to expand my lens collection and after months reviewing all the options available I am very happy that I purchased the Canon 30D.I have used Nikon,Olympus and Panasonic in the past.
10 mega pixels ,who cares.
I cant wait for the brillliant lighting the the autumn(fall).
 
Ok, how do you prepare prints for your wall of 16 by 20, or 16 by 24 like I have at home? The interpolation I add is about 10 to 15%, and I wish I didn't have to use it. Sure would like to print 200dpi without it.
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Life is about choices...See Cuba: http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com
 
If you've been a member of this forum, then you've seen the number of Nikon users who have jumped ship for Canon. It's a relatively small number, but it's an even smaller number going from Canon to Nikon... and I doubt it will change, and certainly NOT because Nikon is releasing a 10.2 mp body.
Indeed - I jumped from Nikon to Canon because of that damn' horrible 10.2 sensor, as implemented in the D200.
 
The best thing Canon could do at this point, is spend some R&D money and greatly improve their ergonomics.
Hi Najib,

there is nothing special about Nikon's ergonomics, and nothing inherently bad about Canon's.

I've owned a D200, and although that camera persuaded me to jump ship and get a Canon 30D (looks and handling aren't much good if the image quality is bad), I still own a D70.

And I can use any of 'em easily and effectively - they all have decent ergonomics once you take the time to familiarise yourself.

Nikon's ergonomic approach is by no means better - it's just different .
 
A 12 meg sensor would give me a 16 by 24 print at 178 dpi without interpolation. I'd settle for that, kinda cause I can't afford the 16.6 version. However, if I came into a bit more long green, the 16.6 meg body would give me that print at 208 dpi, I believe. Right? How much or how little interpolation do you guys use? And, would it not be fairly easy to see the difference in the prints at, say, 3 feet distance? Sharp is so much more impressive, isn't it? I hope the 24-105 IS lens will do for the 12 meg 1.3 I'm waiting for.
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Life is about choices...See Cuba: http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com
 
So why do you give credence to what you remember from 18months ago, and not the far more recent , referenced info I have provided?

Also, without the actual source, anyone's memory (including mine!) can play tricks - we include the gloss we put on it at the time, without intention to mislead, but inaccurately just the same.
Actually my statement was from what a canon exec said about 1.5
years ago. Unfortunatly I'm unable to find that article now.
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Regards,
DaveMart

'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment
 
That's your opinion - but the point of my post is that all the statements by Canon indicate that 1.3 is likely to continue - have you any references where they state the contrary, or not?
These urban myths like the demise of the 1.3 are amazing - no
matter how many times people are pointed to Canon's actual
statements, they seem to keep reverting to their suppositions!
As opposed to the urban myths about the release of a new line of
1.3x crop cameras? Until a new 1.3x model is actually released,
the semi-annual hopes and wishes are simply that. There are some
significant tradeoffs in buying a 1.3x camera, especially when
there are no lenses specific to the format - but why restate the
obvious since this horse has been beaten to death (every 6months in
fact). "Having [email protected] means doing 8.5fps" serves well for a
sports / event camera in 2004/2005/2006, but we have been told that
Canon will eventually merge the 1D series.

--
-CW
--
Regards,
DaveMart

'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment
 
Canon: This is where I can't really see a clear new arrival. The
30D was recently introduced, so I can't see an update to that, nor
the Rebel XT, which is already remarkably close to the 30D in
functionality and features, while remaining entry level. What is
needed is a plug between the 30D and 5D. So I'm thinking a 1.3x
crop DSLR to not eat up 5D sales, and still give an upgrade path to
20D and 30D owners. The body will be a competitor to the D200, but
offering 1.3x weather sealed semi-pro body is the answer to the
D200, while not jeopardizing 5D or 30D sales. Price: $1499-$1999.
If they do that, my D200 will be for sale on Ebay.
--
Scott A.
 
A Canon rep also told me less than 8 mo ago, all lines , including the 1.3 were continuing. Why some people want it to dissappear is beyond me.
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Life is about choices...See Cuba: http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com
 
It all depends on how you read them. You seem to desperately want more 1.3x cameras so I think that colors your interpretations of what Canon says. I would be perfectly happy if Canon never releases another 1.3x camera. It is 1x and 1.6x for me for the foreseeable future.

Greg

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http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/
 
Using the date of Phil's reviews, there was 67 months between the review of the D30 and the 30D. Divide this by 5 ( the MP increase ) and you get 13.4 months / MP. I was originally ( and quickly ) looking at the D60 to 20D which is about 17 months / MP.

There is 42 months between the D100 and the D200 ( not the 4 years you like to claim ) which is 10.5 months / MP.

As for the pro models, odds are good that we will see this year a 10MP 10FPS replacement for the D2h.
 
1. burst rate/ buffer handling
2. focus / tracking ability
3. reach
4. low noise signature at high ISO
What's "reach", in your view? The term is so vague and depending on whose opinion you ask seems to relate to some combination of magnification, the physical overall size of the sensor and the size of the individual elements on the sensor. Magnification is entirely a function of the lens configuration; it's going to project the same image at the focal plane no matter what the size of the sensor of piece of film placed on the plane, so we can discount that right off. The physical size of the sensor just governs how much of the projected image at the focal plane we sample or crop, be it a 36x24mm rectangle for full frame 35mm or 24x16mm for a 1.5x crop (yes, that's Nikon but the math is easier).

That just leaves the element size, which is actually providing additional detail within the image and not any additional focal length implied by the term reach. True, the more detail you have the larger you can output the uncropped image before you notice any pixellation which equates to a lossless "zoom" at the output stage, but that's totally independent of the sensor size. With current technology you could hypothetically have a FF sensor with a 12um pitch and a 1.6x crop sensor with an 8um pitch - everything else being equal, which would you prefer?
How does going full frame positively affect any of these things?
In other words, what benefit would the sports shooter get when
going full frame? They lose added reach and incur more noise. So
why would they want it?
How does it negatively affect any of those things?

Burst rate is currently limited by two things; the mirror mechanism (if present) and the ability to spool data from the output buffer onto the memory card, and the latter can be mitigated by providing a bigger cache - DRAM is cheap after all. Even at 10fps, 20MP 16bit resolution you only need a 400MB/s bus from the sensor to the buffer (a few technical issues aside), which is not exactly a huge amount by current data bus standards, but still 10x more than even Sandisk's brand new Extreme IV cards can handle.

Focus has absolutely nothing to do with the image sensor, how can it since it's hidden by the shutter until exposure? There are actually some dedicated sensors in the base of Canon's DSLRs that perform this function in conjunction with the lens and the onboard DIGIC processor, but that's another subject altogether.

Skipping reach for now, noise is mainly a function of the size of the individual sensor elements, not the overall size of the sensor itself. Think of each element as a bucket collecting raindrops (the photons) - the smaller your buckets the more prone they are to overflow, possibly into adjacent ones, and the less likely they are individually able to provide an accurate indication of the rainfall. Want to know how much rain fell in an hour, but don't want to wait, then instead of waiting for an hour, why not wait half an hour and then double the amount of rainfall you measure in the bucket, or even quarter of an hour and quadruple it? This is essentially how a DSLR simulates the higher ISOs of film which does genuinely react to light faster, however in doing so you also multiply any errors, which is why higher ISOs are noisier.

The upshot of this is that the smaller you make the elements, the lower the number of photons that are going to strike them in a given period of time, and the greater the margin for error, especially when you start increasing the ISO. Ironically this means that the very thing needed for "reach" as I think you mean it, namely smaller sensor elements to provide additional detail in a subject at a given distance from the camera, will mean paying a price in noise levels, just the opposite of "they lose added reach and incur more noise".
As a sports shooter myself, I would much rather see a 1.6 crop body
with faster focusing, better burst. I don't see what benefit a
full frame would give me.
To be fair, possibly none. That would depend on your shooting style, how close you are able to get to your subject matter and your willingness to experiment with the creative opportunities afforded by a larger sensor that doesn't crop your image for you. You might have seen shots taken from right behind the net at football matches - many of those were taken remotely with a ultra wideangle lenses on 1DmkII and even 1DSmkII bodies, for instance.

Here's something for you to consider though. It's pretty much a given that the body most commonly seen in the hands of professional sports photographers at any event will be the 1DmkII (or mkIIN). If "reach" is so important to sports photographers, then why are they all using, and in the main perfectly satisfied with, the camera with the second lowest pixel density of all Canon's current DSLRs?

[For the record, from the lowest to the highest, the order is 5D, 1DmkII, 350D, 1DSmkII, 30D.]

Andy
 
I think you can pretty much count out any new 1.3x 12 mp sensor from Canon for a consumer camera. I think Canon has pretty much made its bet with 1.6x sensors for cameras under $1,500.

I am pretty sure Canon will eventually move to just 1.6x and 1.0 sensors. My guess is that the 1.0 will have a high speed crop mode similar the what Nikon has in the D2x.

I would much rather see Canon focus on a much nicer body for its sub $1,500 cameras. Weather sealing, faster, huge buffer, quieter, better view finder, better low light AF, programmable settings, sensor cleaning system and better flash.

Then again all of these things were pretty easily doable for the 30D and instead Canon choose to do a quick update to generate some more cash. I am pretty sure we will see a similar effort from Canon on the new Rebel and that will be the big news for Canon consumer and prosumer users the Fall. Also remember there is no Fall show next year - it is every other year.
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Ed
http://www.cbrycelea.com/photos/
 
Well, you were the one that said my thread was one of the dumbest,
so who is the one that begun this by being harsh?
Look through the entire thread and tell me when I said that????

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com
 
Don't exacerbate your over-exited imaginings by speculating on what I want.
I doubt I would go for a 1.3, if that has anything to do with the subject.
It is also irrelevant whether you want one.

What possible interpretation of 'we would like to continue 1.3' is there other than that Canon want to make more 1.3 cameras?
The coloring of interpretations seems to be solely your own!
It all depends on how you read them. You seem to desperately want
more 1.3x cameras so I think that colors your interpretations of
what Canon says. I would be perfectly happy if Canon never
releases another 1.3x camera. It is 1x and 1.6x for me for the
foreseeable future.

Greg

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http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/
--
Regards,
DaveMart

'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment
 

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