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NEC Spectraview LCDs (TravBomb ?)

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I think I will wait until an actual comparison is posted. While I am partial to the 2090 given its price point, the 2190 is still a candidate.

Reports like these from calibration enthusiasts are disheartening but educational :

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?s=1c8563b1d61dd1923a47c2a8f66ed367&showtopic=11086&st=20

My NEC LCD2090UXi arrived today. I initially profiled it native (40% brightness) and didn't really see much difference to my Apple Cinema Display 20" (also native). I got pretty well identical results with Match 3.6 and basICColor display 4. Gray ramps for both displays were very clean and with no banding. The NEC had more contrast but if anything the gamut was slightly smaller than my older Apple. I was a bit disappointed at this stage and wondered whether I should have bought a cheaper Samsung etc.

....

I was still hopeful that the gamut for the new monitor would be slightly better. I haven't seen a lack on screen but compared it with the Apple using the ColorSync utility. I guess the story is if you want better gamut you'll have to pay for it. I was very impressed with the Eizo monitors I saw recently but the closest model to the 2090 would be the L997 at twice the price (at least here). Note that I haven't compared the 2090 side-by-side with the 2180/2190 (same panel) so maybe the larger monitor is better in this department. But again, more dollars. The 2090 will do me for a while.

.....

Above are plots (as profiled) comparing it to sRGB (white mesh). It's better in cyan, but not quite as good as my Apple in the reds/yellows (but close to sRGB). Note that different settings for the display result in a different gamut.

All in all images look great on the 2090 and have real depth. It's a definite step up from my old Sony CRT
......

The monitor supports hardware calibration but there's currently no software to support it ... AFAIK. An updated version of NEC's SpectraView is on the way. I don't think there's much (if anything) that hardware mode supports that you can't do with the buttons on the monitor, but you do miss out on closed-loop calibration. From what I can currently see, I don't think I'll bother with SpectraView.
.....
 
How likely are the new LCD technologies ( SED, OLED, Brightside Tech) to come to market soon? I can see these technologies superceding the NEC 2190 display in quality, but how soon will they be available? In other words, if I buy the NEC 2090 or 2190, for how long will these displays be "current technology" and competitive in the photography business?
--
Michael
 
sting said:
I don't think there's much (if anything)
that hardware mode supports that you can't do with the buttons on
the monitor, but you do miss out on closed-loop calibration.
Click to expand...
If I've been following this discussion correctly, it's not just that the Spectraview calibration software allows for the closed-loop calibration (DDC), but more importantly it allows the calibration to be done using the monitor's internal LUTs (10-bit or 12-bit, depending on model).

Recent discussion threads indicate that the RGB/contrast/gamma buttons on the monitor and the monitor’s menu DO NOT make adjustments to the monitor's internal LUT's, though nobody seems to know what they actually do adjust. And since making the RGB color temperature and gamma adjustments anywhere other than the monitor's internal 10 or 12-bit LUTs will shrink the color space and degrade the on-screen image, you are stuck with a choice if you do not use the Spectraview Software. You either:

(1) calibrate to the monitor’s native white point and native gamma, and therefore likely have a color temperature and gamma adjustment that is not ideal (unless you’re really lucky and the native happens to be exactly what you want for color temp and gamma).

(2) calibrate to your ideal/desired color temp and gamma, but have a color gamut that is shrunk below what the monitor is capable of have less smooth tonal gradients than the monitor is capable of.

As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), the ONLY way to choose a user desired color temp and gamma while still maintaining the entire color gamut and full tonal gradients for the monitor is to use the monitor’s internal LUTs for setting color temp and gamma, and this means using Spectraview 9or I assume LaCie’s calibration software which I assume is the same as Spectraview since the hardware is rebadged).

Since it sounds like the biggest benefit of these high-end monitors is their excellent internal 10 or 12-bit LUTs, not using the Spectraview software largely defeats the purpose of having such a capable high end monitor.
 
Wacomme, I am having a hard time trying to decide between the 2090 and 2190 as well. Besides the cost and 1" size difference, do you see any other advantages with one of these over the other?

Would the 2090 be slightly better because it has a better contrast ratio or does this make that much of a difference?

I appreciate any advice anyone has to offer that will help me make me decision.
 
Although I would disagree with some technical details, generally August's post is correct.

One important note is that NEC, unlike Lacie and EIZO, are much more propriatary in their implementation of DDC/CI. Technically you don't have to buy software from the monitor's manufacturer to access internal monitor LUTs. NEC make it difficult for 3rd party developers to let their software communicate with NEC monitors from what I've read on the messageboards.

The problem is not so much "reduced gamut". It's just any 8 bit to 8 bit LUTs adjustments result in some dropped RGB values. I'm not an engeneer but it does make sense to me. Remap 256 values to some other 256 values - you loose some in the process.

--
Serge Cashman
 
It's strange.........

A couple of days ago I went to http://www.nm-select.com and found the Spectraview software bundles with the GMB puck, and the software separately. Today, the software-only choice is no longer there.
 
Nill Toulme said:
"Disheartening?" That the closest thing he's seen to the 2090 is
twice the price? I don't get it...
Click to expand...
I am wondering if I will also be disappointed if an $800 20" Apple Studio Display will yield visually indistinguishable results from a $1400 NEC 2090 + Spectraview Calibration package or even my current 1880SX.

None of the local stores display the NEC 2090,2190, so I'm stuck doing tons of Internet research. Everyone on this group has been incredibly helpful.
 
Like August said, it seems to me that to take advantage of the 2090 or 2190 as a superior LCD monitor, one needs to use the Spectraview software. Otherwise, it seems that the 2070 or many other lower priced monitors would perform with the same non-spectra calibrated 90's series NEC.
--
Michael
 
wacomme said:
Like August said, it seems to me that to take advantage of the 2090
or 2190 as a superior LCD monitor, one needs to use the Spectraview
software. Otherwise, it seems that the 2070 or many other lower
priced monitors would perform with the same non-spectra calibrated
90's series NEC.
Click to expand...
Totally agreed. I don't want to give anyone a hard time with my peppering of questions given all of the help on this forum. I just want to

know if there is some material that will document the differences between using the Spectraview software and the various NEC 90 series panels . I've downloaded the Spectraview brochures and user manual, and there isn't much info there. If I buy the Spectraview software, what does my money really buy me ?
 
For 4. Are there any advantages in using the SV software over other vendors?

I am truly surprised that noboby has done a thourough review on this product.
 
wacomme said:
How likely are the new LCD technologies ( SED, OLED, Brightside
Tech) to come to market soon? I can see these technologies
superceding the NEC 2190 display in quality, but how soon will they
be available? In other words, if I buy the NEC 2090 or 2190, for
how long will these displays be "current technology" and
competitive in the photography business?
--
Michael
Click to expand...
I have spoken to engineering about all of the above technologies and they dont seem to have much faith in any of them coming out soon. Things like SED have been talked about for 10 years and every year some manufacturer says they will have one mass produced in 2 years and to date we have nothing.

The things I would look out for would be slightly less expensive LED backlit units and the new panels which will cover 92% of the adobe color gamut.
 
tosborn said:
It's strange.........

A couple of days ago I went to http://www.nm-select.com and found the
Spectraview software bundles with the GMB puck, and the software
separately. Today, the software-only choice is no longer there.
Click to expand...
Ok, so heres the deal. The new Spectraview II software has been printing all week and is being sent out to our warehouse as we speak. Marketing told me on Monday that the new software should be posted within the next 14 days, so by August 7th at the latest.

Not sure what the name difference will be but the disk is white and not that goldish orange color.
 
Since it's downloadable can't you just sell a serial number over the internet? I suppose it's not your decision, but considering that a large number of people who buy those monitors already own a calibration solution it makes sense.

Is there a list of colorimeters it works with? I would be specifically interested in Spyder2 and EyeOne LT models...

--
Serge Cashman
 
BrianPriceUK said:
You dont have to worry about separate RGB controls with these new
LCDs. The sRGB setting (6500) is always close enough for the
software to create a perfect profile.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's good to know. My 1880SX only has the presets, but I've been using the separate RGB controls on my LaCie electronBlue4 monitor.

I'm just getting into understanding calibration more, so thank you for your help.
 
Trav Bomb said:
Ok, so heres the deal. The new Spectraview II software has been
printing all week and is being sent out to our warehouse as we
speak. Marketing told me on Monday that the new software should be
posted within the next 14 days, so by August 7th at the latest.
Click to expand...
Thanks, TravBomb. Any word on the price ? Also, will the hardware+software package be bundled with with new 2090/2190 packages ending with SV ?

As for my input on price, I think that $399 is too much to calibrate monitors in the $1000-1500 price range, considering that existing calibrators already do a good job. $25-50 is reasonable for software that works with many calibrators, so the extra $200, about 15-40% of the monitor price for the NEC 90 series, provides for only a small difference. The Spectraview II hw+sw package price above asks $200 for internal LUT calibration software.
 
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