NIKON D200, Banding! Not suitable for weddings?

It appears that the original poster has just started his wedding photography. If he had used a D100 and attempted the same shot, the light source would have bloomed out over the edge of the person's face, rendering the photograph unnacceptable for a tight crop.

Other cameras would exhibit different degrees of difficulty with this shot as well. A bad photograph is just that, a bad photograph.

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Only the name starts with Gr...

Same old arguments.

Your technique is horrible; how dare you shoot at anything higher than 200iso; why don't you take some photo lessons; it's blown up larger than the eye can see; all cameras would have exibited problems with this extreme otherworldly beyond real life situation; if pixel peepers would spend time shooting instead of peeping they wouldn't care about banding; just get your problem 'minimized' by sending your brand-new-out-of-the-box camera in for repairs; why don't you go by a canon; why don't you go shoot film....yadda, yadda, yadda.

Anyway you spin it - it is a flaw/weakness of this 4 ch. design.

Short banding is always going to be present in most D200's in situations where many other cameras will not exibit the same issue. If it's a concern, be forwarned & stay away from this model. Unfortunatley to those of us who love the D200, but for whatever personal, professional reasons refuse to accept this flaw/weakness for our particular style of photography (be it amateur, "pro", artistic, etc.)..it's heartbreaking.

I have high hopes for the new D80/90...

--
=========================
I am neither a cynic or a fool, but digital
technology makes me a little of both.

The OP hasn't been back after posting the identical post on three forums. His original post is reprinted below. He's shooting directly into the sun with a backlit subject, possible lighting it with an SB600 for flash fill and trying to suck up enough of an image to make it useable. What does he expect to get? It's not a question of whether the camera has a banding issue, it's not got the capability of making the shot. Neither does my D2x, and it has no banding problems either.

AND, for all the future complainers here, before you pop off and complain about the D200 photographs with banding issues, let's see the EXIF data and image sizes before we try to figure out whether it is the photographer who deserves the blame or Nikon [or Canon].

"I would like to ask you to do me a favor and share your experience. I' ve to shoot a group portrait with appr. 80 people at a wedding this saturday.

""Ill do that with a podium (20 x 5 feet) consisting of four steps with different hights. This will cover 60 people. The bride and the groom I plan to sit on a bench (10 feet) in front of that podium together with their witnesses and parents. The remaining people I would like to sit left and right of the bridal couple on the floor.

"For the bench and the people sitting I plan to use a black cloth to cover the bench and the floor.
Is this a good layout?

"The sun I'll plan to be directly behind the people (4:00 p.m.) or should I use a slight angle?
"

"I do not plan to use a fil flash. Or should I? I've only a SB-600 or Hensel Studio Strobes.

"I'll shoot at aperture 9 - 11 to get all people sharp, 40 -50 mm focal length with an Nikon D200 (this is 60 mm for 35 mm film) focussing at the bridal couple.
What lens would you recommend? I have the following:
Nikon 35-70mm, 2.8
Nikon 50mm, 1.4
Nikon 17-55mm, 2.8 DX
Tokina AT-X Pro 28-70mm, 2.6-2.8

"Please add some hints from your experience."

These posts crack me up. This is an example where the ready-access of the internet can potentially turn someone off to a product, based on someone else's faulty use of the item. As another poster said, the scene was a set up for failure.

I wonder if the price point on the D200 has attracted a whole host of people who have no photography experience to a camera that is far beyond their limited technical abilities. Take a look at the posts at this site. Many of them are related to folks using sloppy technique: hand-holding at 1/20 sec, trying to stop their kid's soccer game at 1/30 and wondering why things are blurry; not reading the instructions and then wondering why the camera doesn't focus as they expect. Do they admit it is their own fault. No they blame the camera or the manufacturer.

And how many people regularly shoot at ISO 800 or greater, or do they do that only to exploit the weaknesses of the camera so they can complain about noise? I can count the number of times I shoot above 400 on one hand.

Folks reading this thread that think the camera is flawed, recognize that any camera can take a crappy picture. Or, more accurately, any photographer can use his camera to make a crappy picture. Cameras like all tools have limitations. Exceed them and you won't like the results. Personally, I don't have banding on my 3 week old D200, nor is the rubber falling off, nor am I having sharpness issues. No problems at all, really. All I do I recognize its limitations and I spent 30 mins with the instruction book.

I'm gonna go take some sunset pictures at ISO 3200 while riding my bike, with the AF set incorrectly, the lens wide open (or stopped all the way down) and a fluorescent white point. I'll post the results here so you can all see how terrible the camera is )))

Bob

Ive seen worse ´´banding on my D70 and my D70s.

There are some people out there whom just dont have a clue about digital photography.

Martyn

this isn't a reasonable fix....

According to EXIF, he did use a flash.

Maxx

Rikkengaa **** said:

It's a known D200 issue which can be fixed by Nikon to an
acceptable level so...let Nikon fix it.

Not using (fill)flash and ISO 500 do not help the quality of you
pictures regardsless of the banding. I think that it's a good idea
to reconsider your ISO 200 and (fill)flash.

****.

--



My photo's: http://arubaphoto.smugmug.com
My pets: http://www.bikebird.com
Smuggys story: http://arubaphoto.smugmug.com/gallery/1577150

Click to expand...

Roberto Avanzi said:

Roberto Avanzi said:

to be more precise, I'd have applied a mask to limit the effect to
just the affected areas, but for this I didn't bother.

Click to expand...

Is it my eyes, or did the images become less sharp and less detailed?

Click to expand...

Is it that you can't read my statement directly above your comment?

There might (probbaly is) a loss of some detail aftrall I appliede the filter to the entire pictue whith out limiting the effect at all. But the pictuers are such over worked poor examples to start with, I didn't think it would matter.

--
-Steve
===================

Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships. Ansel Adams

Don't like what this guy has to say about banding? well why not attack his photographic abilities instead! I mean, what kind of crazy fool takes backlit photos? LOL!

Stefan Kanya said:

Hello all,
I'v bought a NIKON D200 to start up with wedding photography. But
already my fist customer complained about some photos, as there are
lines visible at high contrast areas, when photographing against
backlight. These photos might not be printed as large as he wanted.
In a small print the lines are not visible.

The problem is, that this is exactly what my customer wants: light
in the back, high contrast.

What should I do? Return the camera. Change the system? Is CANON
better?

Thank you for help.
Best regards,
Stefan Kanya





--
Stefan

Click to expand...

Now, now did your mommy say you were allowed on the internet?
--
-Steve
===================

Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships. Ansel Adams

zakdl said:

Same old arguments.

Your technique is horrible; how dare you shoot at anything higher
than 200iso; why don't you take some photo lessons; it's blown up
larger than the eye can see; all cameras would have exibited
problems with this extreme otherworldly beyond real life situation;
if pixel peepers would spend time shooting instead of peeping they
wouldn't care about banding; just get your problem 'minimized' by
sending your brand-new-out-of-the-box camera in for repairs; why
don't you go by a canon; why don't you go shoot film....yadda,
yadda, yadda.

Click to expand...

The only yadda yadda is from guys like you, constantly complaining about a trivial issue. You CAN avoid the issue, very easily, if you use appropriate photography techniques instead of just doing P&S. If you MUST do P&S, you can fix it easily in post.

zakdl said:

Anyway you spin it - it is a flaw/weakness of this 4 ch. design.

Click to expand...

There's no spin necessary. There is no perfect camera. This issue has been the most documented of any issue in history. If you can't work around it easily, while getting better photos, you do need better technique, lessons, or a P&S.

zakdl said:

artistic, etc.)..it's heartbreaking.

Click to expand...

It's inane to even care about this issue. To call it heartbreaking is absurdity beyond belief.

zakdl said:

I have high hopes for the new D80/90...

Click to expand...

Who cares?

--
my gallery of so-so photos
http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root

Hire a professional photographer with whatever equipment or enrol in a photographic course. You ,and many others, make the mistake of blaming the equipment & not the photgrapher.

The OP presents these images as evidence of a flawed camera without showing us how enlarged they are or any of the EXIF data.
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http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/myfavorites

take away the bands and these photos still suck. if you had a decent pic that had banding than i might feel bad for you.
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enjoy life

doug

He posted the same in other forums as well, he asked a question, we answered and have questions too. He doesn't bother to reply. BIG TROLL.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Josh

--
-Steve
===================

Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships. Ansel Adams

If you shot raw can you email me a file that shows banding? My address is in my profile.

I want to try a print to see for myself. I have a D2Hs and have been thinking of getting a D200 as well.

I would like to print out a sample for myself to see if possible.

Thanks in advance.
--
Tommy
http://www.tlmartin.com

You are correct.. The D200 IN NOT SUITABLE FOR WEDDINGS IN YOUR HANDS??? That much you got right..

I have to thank you too.. The line you fed us about the customer wanting HIGH CONTRAST images made me laugh for a good 10 minutes..

--
Frank

How do I know they're 100% crops?

Banding lines up perfectly with full-sized D200 ISO 400 image showing banding available at: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D200/D200A.HTM



And for folks without an EXIF viewer:

Make - NIKON CORPORATION
Model - NIKON D200
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 300
YResolution - 300
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - Adobe Photoshop CS Windows
DateTime - 2006:07:23 23:57:14
Artist - Unspecified
Copyright - Unspecified
ExifOffset - 404
ExposureTime - 1/125 seconds
FNumber - 4.00
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 500
DateTimeOriginal - 2006:06:24 13:43:59
DateTimeDigitized - 2006:06:24 13:43:59
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/125 seconds
ApertureValue - F 4.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Strobe return light detected
FocalLength - 20.00 mm
UserComment -
SubsecTime - 4
SubsecTimeOriginal - 4
SubsecTimeDigitized - 4
ColorSpace - Uncalibrated
ExifImageWidth - 472
ExifImageHeight - 344
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - Other
SceneType - Other
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
WhiteBalance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 1 x
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 30 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
GainControl - Low gain up
Contrast - Soft
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
SubjectDistanceRange - Unknown

Looks like it was shot in raw mode as the NEF filename is embedded, so he may have adjusted the exposure, etc.

Maxx

redwoodroadie said:

The OP presents these images as evidence of a flawed camera without
showing us how enlarged they are or any of the EXIF data.
--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/myfavorites

Click to expand...

This is a 100% crop from a D200 ISO800 shot done recently at an outdoor event. These folks are under a tent and were shot at 1/180s @ f/5.6, ISO800. No flash was used. It was processed with ACR and sharpened using PSCS (200% .8 radius/threshold 6). The sunlit area behind is about +6.5 stops and probably quite similar to the image from the OP.



Note that this crop is from the top left corner of the original so there's a bit of chromatic aberration.



I have never seen any banding with this camera. I'm convinced that the problem exists with some models, but not mine. In case it means anything to anyone my serial is '50005XX'. I suggest anyone who has a D200 with this problem send it to Nikon to be fixed. It's certainly NOT normal.

Russell

--
Russell Proulx
Montreal, CANADA