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BH Photo SUCKS!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yatin Chachad
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Lee,

If you want us to believe that YOUR cars are carried by hand away from the assembly line and brought right up to the truck then you must think we are all fools here. The simple fact is that cars are road tested on a Dyno or test track right after they are built. There is a line machanic there and that is his/her job. And as far are the "knoweldge bubble" comment goes. I don't think I it's in any danger here...

In any case, I think we drifted away from the real topic.. I certainly can understand someone wanting a factory sealed product. That's fine, what I don't think is necessary is saying B&H Sucks! forshipping an opened lens box. Do you think the original poster could have possibly chose a better title here?
Lee Rothman said:
Frank Benvenuto said:
It is down right IMPOSSIBLE to see a car come off the truck with
ZERO miles. After 25 years selling cars I can tell you that I have
NEVER seen a single car come with ZERO miles... That statement
killed all the credibility LEE might have had..
Walt said:
Oh by the way, my cousin works at a Ford plant and you can't
imagine what the "new" cars go through before the odometers are
even hooked up. At random, these cars are taken and drivin around
the plant and even off the plant property. Hehe

That odometer law doesn't even apply until the cars are released
from the plant, odometers are hooked up and sealed and then the
cars are loaded on trains and or trucks for delivery to the various
dealers. And besides it's rare to see a new car with "0" miles on
it anyway. Geeezzz

Walt
Peter Stewart said:
I've tried hard throughout this thread but just can't contain myself.

I stand foresquare with Michael and Walt.

Flame or not, you jumped on here with a title – BH Photo sucks! uh?

Because of wrinkled plastic?

Because of a fingerprint on the warranty card?

My Gawd!

By your own statement the lens worked just fine, no scratches, no
evidence of any knd of wear or use.

And the problem is????
Wrinkled plastic?
A fingerprint?

I quite agree you are spoiled rotten to badmouth a company who is
held in very high regard throughout the industry (of course, not
with all; in the good old USA, make a single mistake and you're a
very bad company).

As to feeling the same way (fingerprint) on an autombile, all I can
say is I'm so very thankful I don't know you personally or
professionally.

Personally, if I had received that lens and all the parts were
there and it was in perfect condition showing no signs of use, we
have a done deal.

I have to quit before I get really wound up.

Peter Stewart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Frank B
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Frank B
 
I thought they were the best, but Heck
Member said:
no! I bought my D30 , and 70-200 F4.0 from Canoga Camera, and it
arrived on time, factoy fresh, in mint condition. I will remain a
Canoga cutomer till I die.
Click to expand...
Gosh, I hope they stay in business or you die quick, one or the other. (VBG)

In all fairness, I'm a retailer. I always hope my customers will give me at least one opportunity to right their perceived wrongs. Why not give B&H an opportunity to make things right for you.

When I taught kids, I always told my kids they were all entitled to a bad day from time to time. Hell, I had my own. Give B&H the benefit of one bad day. It might be followed by many many good ones.

After all, God himself probably looks back at the day you were conceived as a less than perfect . (VBG)

Please take these comments in fun, though they carry earnest thoughts, they have no intention of making any personal indictments at all.--Dave Lewis
 
He's giving B&H their chance to make it right, on HIS terms. Which means they should promptly refund his money, and be glad to get rid of him as a customer. They don't need a "customer" who's gonna post "B&H Sucks" (or it's equivalent) any time they make a mistake, before they're even given a chance to do anything about it.

I've heard a lot of great things about Canoga and Delta in this thread. Just like I've heard many great things about B&H. But you know what, I'm sure I can find somebody who's experienced a mistake by them. And you know what, as they grow in business, I'm sure the number of mistakes will grow, too (and perhaps even as a percentage). I sure hope someobody doesn't come along and post "Delta sucks" when that happens. It wouldn't be fair to them.
Dave Lewis said:
In all fairness, I'm a retailer. I always hope my customers will
give me at least one opportunity to right their perceived wrongs.
Why not give B&H an opportunity to make things right for you.
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
 
Please note the poll I started to hopefully end this flame war about B&H. It regards one's insistance on getting a fully UNOPENED box as factory fresh NEW. Submit your yes or no accordingly. You will see this poll as a new thread. Thanks

Lee
 
Yatin Chachad said:
I have no problem about getting something that someone fiddled
around with and returned it to the box in unbroken condition. But,
I have a right to know that such a thing has happened, and then
decide if I still want to purchase this item at full price, or
purchase it at a discount. However, this product CANNOT be sold as
new, and I CANNOT be told that the material I am getting is
"Factory sealed and Fresh", beacuse it is not. That is a downright
Lie, and that is what BH Photo did. Again I am not saying that
Canoga has never, ever done it, but they have not done it to me,
and that is why I will buy from them henceforth.
Y. Chachad
Click to expand...
What about a new car. Would you buy a new car off the lot with, say 50 - 60 miles on it, knowing full well that probably two or three people had test driven it. In a world of non sealed photography merchandise, "test handling" is a fact of life. If the lens showed no signs of having been adversely handled I would regard it as new. If you were in the store with your camera and you asked to see a certain lens on your camera and the clerk pulled a new box off the shelf for you to try the lens, would you consider that lens a demo or used after you had put it on your camera then returned it to the box. Would you buy that lens, or would you demand another. Would you consider your handling of it a jeopardy you couldn't live with. If not, then how is your handling the lens any different than anyone else's in the presense of the store clerk.

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but have a little trouble with your intensity.--Dave Lewis
 
Ideally, a store would have ONE demo lens of all their lenses, and ONLY the demo would be handled by customers.

Of course, VERY few stores would be able to do that for reasons of space and cost. I'll bet even B&H doesn't have a demo lens available for EVERY lens it carries.
Dave Lewis said:
What about a new car. Would you buy a new car off the lot with, say
50 - 60 miles on it, knowing full well that probably two or three
people had test driven it. In a world of non sealed photography
merchandise, "test handling" is a fact of life. If the lens showed
no signs of having been adversely handled I would regard it as new.
If you were in the store with your camera and you asked to see a
certain lens on your camera and the clerk pulled a new box off the
shelf for you to try the lens, would you consider that lens a demo
or used after you had put it on your camera then returned it to the
box. Would you buy that lens, or would you demand another. Would
you consider your handling of it a jeopardy you couldn't live with.
If not, then how is your handling the lens any different than
anyone else's in the presense of the store clerk.
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
 
Yatin Chachad said:
Thanks for your support. People do not realize that when they buy
a car is is NEW, when they buy a demo car it is a demo car, and not
exactly new. And you pay a reduced price accordingly. As a
customer, I should be informed if the car I am buying is brand new
or a demo, and I was sold a demo as brand new!
Thank you LMC54

LMC54 wrote:
Click to expand...
I would hardly regard a lens that somebody took out of the wrapper to look at, a demo. A demo is a lens that has been on a camera, out of the store to try out then back to the store again, to perhaps be tried again. It is totally new in every way, but has been "tried out."

I'm a flyrod builder. Folks take my rods out in the yard to cast to see if they are what they want. The rod is still new when they bring them back into the shop. I sell them as new and my customers regard them as new.I have some rods that I let folks take for a day to fish with. They are demo rods. They remain in new condition but must be sold for less money because they have indeed been used.

I will agree, though, that there is no way for you to know how the lens was handled or whether it was indeed a demo. For that reason it is reasonable for you to request another. To indict the store as less than honest is much too severe in my mind.--Dave Lewis
 
A rather different scenario I feel. Just take a look at my poll so far. Those folks NOT concerned about product having been opened are far behind those that ARE. Your fly rod setup is quite different we feel.....
 
Last week I went to B&H and asked to see the Arca Swiss Monoball B1 ball head.

The salesman told me that they keep it in stock, but as they do not keep one on display (which did surprise me) asked if I knew it's what I wanted, I told him that I wanted to look at it first.

He called it up from stock and took it out of the box and showed me how it worked.

I did wind up purchasing it, but I can't imagine that if I didn't that he wouldn't have just put it back in the box and put it back into stock.

I can't believe that after showing it to me that they would have considered it anything but new.

I think when purchasing something via the net or mail order, perhaps it's better to place the order by phone and insist that it's factory fresh and that it has not been opened to show to a customer. This could possibly save you alot of grief.
 
Good analogy.

The tricky part, of course, is knowing whether that opened unit is in fact, a demo, or has simply been looked at in the store. For that, you have to rely on the store's integrity.

For those who DEMAND completely unopened boxes: how would you feel if you were charged a FEE (equal to the difference in NEW vs. "opened to examine" prices) to look at a lens that was in stock, before making a purchase decision?

That would be fair, IMO.
Dave Lewis said:
I would hardly regard a lens that somebody took out of the wrapper
to look at, a demo. A demo is a lens that has been on a camera, out
of the store to try out then back to the store again, to perhaps be
tried again. It is totally new in every way, but has been "tried
out."

I'm a flyrod builder. Folks take my rods out in the yard to cast to
see if they are what they want. The rod is still new when they
bring them back into the shop. I sell them as new and my customers
regard them as new.I have some rods that I let folks take for a day
to fish with. They are demo rods. They remain in new condition but
must be sold for less money because they have indeed been used.

I will agree, though, that there is no way for you to know how the
lens was handled or whether it was indeed a demo. For that reason
it is reasonable for you to request another. To indict the store as
less than honest is much too severe in my mind.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
 
You are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. NEW means out of BACK STOCK away from prying hands. Shelf means subject to anyone's prying hands at will. When I pay an Advertised price that is for a NEW product I expect it to come from the FORMER.....NOT the latter. Thank you....
DavidP said:
The tricky part, of course, is knowing whether that opened unit is
in fact, a demo, or has simply been looked at in the store. For
that, you have to rely on the store's integrity.

For those who DEMAND completely unopened boxes: how would you feel
if you were charged a FEE (equal to the difference in NEW vs.
"opened to examine" prices) to look at a lens that was in stock,
before making a purchase decision?

That would be fair, IMO.
Dave Lewis said:
I would hardly regard a lens that somebody took out of the wrapper
to look at, a demo. A demo is a lens that has been on a camera, out
of the store to try out then back to the store again, to perhaps be
tried again. It is totally new in every way, but has been "tried
out."

I'm a flyrod builder. Folks take my rods out in the yard to cast to
see if they are what they want. The rod is still new when they
bring them back into the shop. I sell them as new and my customers
regard them as new.I have some rods that I let folks take for a day
to fish with. They are demo rods. They remain in new condition but
must be sold for less money because they have indeed been used.

I will agree, though, that there is no way for you to know how the
lens was handled or whether it was indeed a demo. For that reason
it is reasonable for you to request another. To indict the store as
less than honest is much too severe in my mind.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
Click to expand...
 
This is exactly how many boxes that are opened end up being sold "as new". And I don't have a problem with that. This is different than a case where you purchased the lens, then returned it. Why? Because the salesman (presumably) watched you handle the eqipment, and knows nothing was hurt.

As far as insisting on "unopened and new", I don't think a salesman at a place like B&H could legitimately promise that. He probably sends the order on to somebody else, and they have no idea if the box has previously been opened. How would they tell, other than opening it up?
blang said:
Last week I went to B&H and asked to see the Arca Swiss Monoball B1
ball head.
The salesman told me that they keep it in stock, but as they do not
keep one on display (which did surprise me) asked if I knew it's
what I wanted, I told him that I wanted to look at it first.
He called it up from stock and took it out of the box and showed me
how it worked.
I did wind up purchasing it, but I can't imagine that if I didn't
that he wouldn't have just put it back in the box and put it back
into stock.

I can't believe that after showing it to me that they would have
considered it anything but new.

I think when purchasing something via the net or mail order,
perhaps it's better to place the order by phone and insist that
it's factory fresh and that it has not been opened to show to a
customer. This could possibly save you alot of grief.
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
 
Thanks Blang.....Now I know why the Bogen 3437 head I got from them looked like it had been through the war when I received it. Obviously some folks had their mitts on it prior to it getting shipped to me. First time shame on them,,,,,,second time "shame on me" but there won't be a second time.
blang said:
Last week I went to B&H and asked to see the Arca Swiss Monoball B1
ball head.
The salesman told me that they keep it in stock, but as they do not
keep one on display (which did surprise me) asked if I knew it's
what I wanted, I told him that I wanted to look at it first.
He called it up from stock and took it out of the box and showed me
how it worked.
I did wind up purchasing it, but I can't imagine that if I didn't
that he wouldn't have just put it back in the box and put it back
into stock.

I can't believe that after showing it to me that they would have
considered it anything but new.

I think when purchasing something via the net or mail order,
perhaps it's better to place the order by phone and insist that
it's factory fresh and that it has not been opened to show to a
customer. This could possibly save you alot of grief.
Click to expand...
 
Please give some examples of companies (on the net, where we can verify) who offer "new" vs. "shelf" items.

I'm not talking about "refurb" or "returned" merchandise.

I want to know of places that have a different price for something that's merely been opened for an in-store customer to look at.

Obviously, this precludes mail-order-only places.

Better yet, somebody please try this at Canoga for me. (They're open for walk-in customers, right?) Go in to the store. Find a Canon lens that they have in-stock, but not on display. Ask to look at it. Open the box, take it out, and carefully examine it. Now, hand it back to the salesman, and let him put it away. (Note the serial number). Now, have a friend come in a few minutes later, and ask to buy that lens. See which lens gets handed to him, and if it's sold "as new".

Any takers on what happens? (This isn't meant to bash Canoga -- but it shows that "new" doesn't mean "unopened" in this business).
Lee Rothman said:
You are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. NEW
means out of BACK STOCK away from prying hands. Shelf means subject
to anyone's prying hands at will. When I pay an Advertised price
that is for a NEW product I expect it to come from the
FORMER.....NOT the latter. Thank you....
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
 
Have you EVER looked at a piece of photographic equipment at a store before buying it? Have they ever opened a box for you to do so? Do you insist after looking at it that it now be sold at a reduced price for the next customer because of what you've just done?

What a racket. Next time I get a lens, I'll have my wife go open the box a day before, then insist on them selling it as "demo'd". Then I'll go pick it up at the reduced price.
Lee Rothman said:
Thanks Blang.....Now I know why the Bogen 3437 head I got from them
looked like it had been through the war when I received it.
Obviously some folks had their mitts on it prior to it getting
shipped to me. First time shame on them,,,,,,second time "shame on
me" but there won't be a second time.

--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
Click to expand...
 
DavidP said:
In this case, the only option B&H was given to fix the problem was
to accept a return and credit the money. Therefore, if they do
that, they're OK by me.
Click to expand...
It's a huge inconvenience though. If I'm looking for possible inconveniences, I'll buy from Beach camera or Buydig.com (same company), or some other heavy discounter.
 
Uhhhhh, can you say DELTA! I can (and do) as their product comes to me sealed, shrink wrapped and with a indelible seal ( in this case last week with a European Assurance Seal) which CAN NOT be tampered with on it. Even the plastic bags that the lens and flash come in from Canon that wrinkle oh so easily had NO wrinkles in them when removed. So YEAH.....when I say SEALED I mean completely NOT messed with. What part of "Not Messed With" don't you understand?!!!!!!!
DavidP said:
I'm not talking about "refurb" or "returned" merchandise.

I want to know of places that have a different price for something
that's merely been opened for an in-store customer to look at.

Obviously, this precludes mail-order-only places.

Better yet, somebody please try this at Canoga for me. (They're
open for walk-in customers, right?) Go in to the store. Find a
Canon lens that they have in-stock, but not on display. Ask to
look at it. Open the box, take it out, and carefully examine it.
Now, hand it back to the salesman, and let him put it away. (Note
the serial number). Now, have a friend come in a few minutes
later, and ask to buy that lens. See which lens gets handed to
him, and if it's sold "as new".

Any takers on what happens? (This isn't meant to bash Canoga --
but it shows that "new" doesn't mean "unopened" in this business).
Lee Rothman said:
You are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. NEW
means out of BACK STOCK away from prying hands. Shelf means subject
to anyone's prying hands at will. When I pay an Advertised price
that is for a NEW product I expect it to come from the
FORMER.....NOT the latter. Thank you....
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.xroad.com
Click to expand...
 
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