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OT: Kodak Smart Frame Problems

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kelleym

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I need the forum's help here -- I bought the Kodak Smart frame for a present for my wife, and wanted to store on the frame (or on a CF card) images from the D30 she and I have taken.

Here's my dilemma -- I can't get a full-frame picture to store if I first process it in Photoshop. I save it as a 1280x960 (which they recommend) and, of course, it doesn't have EXIF info (so no thumbnail) but it also doesn't load into the picture frame. OTOH, it does read the CF card just fine straight from the D30 (shooting in JPG mode).

I've followed regular naming conventions, put them in the right folders, but still no luck. I can drag the images over in ZoomBrowser to save to the camera and they will load correctly and display okay but with the black bars at the top and bottom (wrong aspect ratio, even though the images themselves are stored correctly). I suspect it has something to do either with lack of EXIF -- but I'm at a loss to figure out where to go next.

Any ideas I'll be glad to try them.--Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
 
Mike,

I haven't had any problems loading pics in JPEG format using 640x480 size and 72 dpi resolution. I get full screen images and great pictures. I don't have any EXIF data or thumbnails but that doesn't seem to matter.

Do you get any error message when you select copy from CF card? Does the frame let you check off the images that you want to load from the CF card? Does the frame see the images on the card (without thumbs)?

You may want to format another card and try again. I am curious as to what the frame does when you try to copy?

Mike B.
 
Mike B. said:
Mike,

I haven't had any problems loading pics in JPEG format using
640x480 size and 72 dpi resolution. I get full screen images and
great pictures. I don't have any EXIF data or thumbnails but that
doesn't seem to matter.
Click to expand...
I'll bet you're not getting fullscreen images -- I thought I was, until I compared them to the ones stored in the frame already (like the tiger). Mine are almost full screen, but still have black at the top and bottom. Nothing I can't live with, but I feel a little cheated.

Plus, the Kodak FAQ says to prepare your images as 1280 x 960 before downloading them (as the frame further resamples). While I can copy a 640x480 image to them, I sure can't do it at 1280x960. It doesn't even see the image, let alone let me copy it. So something's odd.
Mike B.63725 said:
Do you get any error message when you select copy from CF card?
Does the frame let you check off the images that you want to load
from the CF card? Does the frame see the images on the card
(without thumbs)?

You may want to format another card and try again. I am curious as
to what the frame does when you try to copy?
Click to expand...
The frame behaves oddly at all times -- I've tried three different CF cards and it gives me different errors with all. Most of the time it just turns off -- as if the card is so bad it can't handle anything and shuts down.

I have two more frames, so I'll try them and see if I can eliminate the variables (I haven't opened them up yet because I wanted this one to work. I'll tell you one thing -- it's a good thing I didn't get this for my mom, who would not be able to deal with these technical issues).--Mike http://www.kelleytown.com
 
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.--Mike http://www.kelleytown.com
 
Assuming you're using D30, you'll need to adjust the 3:2 aspect ratio from the D30 to match the 4:3 ratio of the frame. So here's what I do:

1. In Photoshop I use the crop tool. I set the width to 6.4 in, the height to 4.8 inches and the resolution to 72.
2. Crop using the above parameters.

3. Save it as a jpeg file. Quality 5 is all you need.

That's it. Copy it to the card. You can then copy it into the frame memory or let it run from the card (if you don't mind the little "CF" in the corner.

Questions welcome
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
--Joe Hawblitzel
 
For me

Breezebrowser-> photoshop-> CF card.
Joe Hawblitzel said:
3. Save it as a jpeg file. Quality 5 is all you need.

That's it. Copy it to the card. You can then copy it into the
frame memory or let it run from the card (if you don't mind the
little "CF" in the corner.

Questions welcome
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
--
Joe Hawblitzel
Click to expand...
 
Mike,

I open the .jpg with Photoshop 6. Rotate portrait shots. Then I use Photoshops cropping tool to make it as close to the ratio of 4/3 as possible. Then I use PSs sizing tool to change the maximum dimension in either direction to 640 and 480. I don't exceed either dimension (size it in the direction that keeps it within 640x480.) Sometimes this leaves black on the sides or top depending on my original cropping. Then I use Windows Explorer to copy it to a CF card. With this method I see the whole picture and thumbnails of all pictures on the card. I don't see any degrading of the image compared to how it looks on my monitor and see no reason to copy it any larger than 640x480. Bryan Biggers told me he can't see thumbnails on the CF but can see them on the frame. Curious because I can see all thumbnails with my method. He uses a different program to size.

Danny
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
 
I neglected to mention the method I described above also shows thumbnails, both from pictures stored on the frame and also on the card.
Daniel Lauring said:
I open the .jpg with Photoshop 6. Rotate portrait shots. Then I
use Photoshops cropping tool to make it as close to the ratio of
4/3 as possible. Then I use PSs sizing tool to change the maximum
dimension in either direction to 640 and 480. I don't exceed
either dimension (size it in the direction that keeps it within
640x480.) Sometimes this leaves black on the sides or top
depending on my original cropping. Then I use Windows Explorer to
copy it to a CF card. With this method I see the whole picture and
thumbnails of all pictures on the card. I don't see any degrading
of the image compared to how it looks on my monitor and see no
reason to copy it any larger than 640x480. Bryan Biggers told me
he can't see thumbnails on the CF but can see them on the frame.
Curious because I can see all thumbnails with my method. He uses a
different program to size.

Danny
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Joe Hawblitzel
 
Joe Hawblitzel said:
Assuming you're using D30, you'll need to adjust the 3:2 aspect
ratio from the D30 to match the 4:3 ratio of the frame. So here's
what I do:
1. In Photoshop I use the crop tool. I set the width to 6.4 in,
the height to 4.8 inches and the resolution to 72.
Click to expand...
I use pixels and set them directly for 640 and 480 in the resize, using the size tool. Can you resize using the crop tool? Is there a way to prepick and aspect ration in the crop tool where you don't have to use a trial and error method. My pics usually end up 630x480 or 640x463 or something like that.
Joe Hawblitzel said:
2. Crop using the above parameters.
Click to expand...
You can crop using specific parameters?
Joe Hawblitzel said:
3. Save it as a jpeg file. Quality 5 is all you need.
Click to expand...
I use quality 8. I tried a lower quality setting but it didn't seem to save much space from the already tiny pictures (which run 50 to 110K.) Even still, I notice some variegation in subtle sky shadings. I don't know if this is a picture frame limitation or a jpg artifact.
Joe Hawblitzel said:
That's it. Copy it to the card. You can then copy it into the
frame memory or let it run from the card (if you don't mind the
little "CF" in the corner.

Questions welcome
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
--
Joe Hawblitzel
Click to expand...
 
Joe Hawblitzel said:
I neglected to mention the method I described above also shows
thumbnails, both from pictures stored on the frame and also on the
card.
Click to expand...
Could this be because Photoshop 6 keeps the thumbnails in the jpgs while other programs don't?
 
Daniel Lauring said:
Joe Hawblitzel said:
Assuming you're using D30, you'll need to adjust the 3:2 aspect
ratio from the D30 to match the 4:3 ratio of the frame. So here's
what I do:
1. In Photoshop I use the crop tool. I set the width to 6.4 in,
the height to 4.8 inches and the resolution to 72.
Click to expand...
I use pixels and set them directly for 640 and 480 in the resize,
using the size tool. Can you resize using the crop tool? Is there
a way to prepick and aspect ration in the crop tool where you don't
have to use a trial and error method. My pics usually end up
630x480 or 640x463 or something like that.
Click to expand...
Yes you can resize using the crop tool and since you have to crop anyway to get the aspect ratio right, you might as well. Just open the crop tool in Photoshop and in the top toolbar make the settings I listed. Then drag across the picture to enlarge the cropping box. Position it where you want, double click or hit enter and your picture will be re-sized and cropped all at once.
Member said:
Member said:
2. Crop using the above parameters.
Click to expand...
You can crop using specific parameters?
Click to expand...
Yes, but remember the frame can't display 3:2 ratio pictures without bands along the top. Kodak's early digital cameras used 3:2 (35mm) ratios, so it's a bit of a surprise the frame is setup for 4:3. It probably reflects Kodak's realization that most digital photography is geared to match monitors and TVs rather than 4x6 prints.
Member said:
Member said:
3. Save it as a jpeg file. Quality 5 is all you need.
Click to expand...
I use quality 8. I tried a lower quality setting but it didn't
seem to save much space from the already tiny pictures (which run
50 to 110K.) Even still, I notice some variegation in subtle sky
shadings. I don't know if this is a picture frame limitation or a
jpg artifact.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure on this. You're right on the sky artifacts. I doubt the frame can reproduce enough colors for subtle shading, but I don't know for sure. If I get time I'll experiment.
Member said:
Member said:
That's it. Copy it to the card. You can then copy it into the
frame memory or let it run from the card (if you don't mind the
little "CF" in the corner.

Questions welcome
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
--
Joe Hawblitzel
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Joe Hawblitzel
 
I haven't seen any problems at all with two different frames. I crop to a 4:3 ratio in Photoshop and resize to 640 x 480. It just seemed senseless to save to a bigger size dispite what Kodak says. I did however use the high quality jpg setting (10 or 11). I then just drag and drop to CF card reader. It works perfectly. A perfect fit on the frame with all thumbnails visible. I have seen no errors or other issues. Any issues with pictures of the sky appear to be color limitations of the frame and not jpeg artifacts. Not a concern with me. I am giving one to my mother!

Rich
Mike Kelley said:
Just to finish this out, I tried all three frames and they work
exactly the same. So, for anyone who's using these things, I'd
love to know your workflow here in taking images off the computer
and putting them into the frame.

It just ain't working well for me.
--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
 
Joe Hawblitzel said:
Joe Hawblitzel said:
Yes, but remember the frame can't display 3:2 ratio pictures without > > bands along the top. Kodak's early digital cameras used 3:2 (35mm)
atios, so it's a bit of a surprise the frame is setup for 4:3. It probably
reflects Kodak's realization that most digital photography is geared to
match monitors and TVs rather than 4x6 prints.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I thnk it has to do with 640x480 LCD's being cheap because they are used for laptops (or used to be). 3:2 LCD screens are probably much more expensive.

--RZ http://www.romeozulu.com/photos
 
Dan (and others -- thanks to everyone for contributing here), I did solve my problem, at least to my satisfaction.

The problem, as I did theorize, was the size of the image attempted to store to the frame. Kodak says in the FAQ that for images to be stored there prepared in Photoshop, the size should be at least 1280x960, as it further compresses. Wrong! At that size, with maximum quality, the Photoframe can't handle the image.

Storing them at 640x480 at maximum quality also had problems AT TIMES. It appears related to the buffer the frame holds. So the safest it to prepare your images at 640x480 and store around 80 percent quality. This works great.

As for thumbnails -- are you using JPGs shot from the D30, Dan, or images converted to TIFs from RAW. If the former, I can understand why they'd retain their embedded thumbs. If the latter (which may be what others are doing) I don't think the EXIF is written in such a manner that the JPG has a thumb. I'll play around and investigate further.
--Mike http://www.kelleytown.com
 
Mike,

Here's what I did - created two versions of the same image, one at 1280x960 and the other at 640x480, both saved as JPG's using PS 6's Save for the Web function with quality 60.

The results displayed by the frame were almost identical for both images - I noticed slightly higher contrast for the higher resolution image, but pretty subtle. So you're right - Kodak's recommendation to store images at a higher than 640x480 resolution is not required.

I haven't been able to view the thumbnails with these pictures, but it's not something I'm concerned about. I removed the LCD cover as mentioned by Joe H., and really like the display quality of this frame.

Good stuff ...
  • Mohit
Member said:
The problem, as I did theorize, was the size of the image attempted
to store to the frame. Kodak says in the FAQ that for images to be
stored there prepared in Photoshop, the size should be at least
1280x960, as it further compresses. Wrong! At that size, with
maximum quality, the Photoframe can't handle the image.
Click to expand...
 
I use downsized jpgs, Mike. I don't have the patience or machine for processing RAWs (though I did just upgrade my 450Mhz to a 1.1Ghz...that would probably help.)

Doesn't the Canon software give you a thumbnail if you use it to process the RAW file? Isn't it in the CRW file?

Danny
Mike Kelley said:
Dan (and others -- thanks to everyone for contributing here), I did
solve my problem, at least to my satisfaction.

The problem, as I did theorize, was the size of the image attempted
to store to the frame. Kodak says in the FAQ that for images to be
stored there prepared in Photoshop, the size should be at least
1280x960, as it further compresses. Wrong! At that size, with
maximum quality, the Photoframe can't handle the image.

Storing them at 640x480 at maximum quality also had problems AT
TIMES. It appears related to the buffer the frame holds. So the
safest it to prepare your images at 640x480 and store around 80
percent quality. This works great.

As for thumbnails -- are you using JPGs shot from the D30, Dan, or
images converted to TIFs from RAW. If the former, I can understand
why they'd retain their embedded thumbs. If the latter (which may
be what others are doing) I don't think the EXIF is written in such
a manner that the JPG has a thumb. I'll play around and
investigate further.

--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
 
I am using downsized jpeg's (640 X480) straight from the D30. Thumbnails work just fine that way. No problems at all.

Rich
Mike Kelley said:
Dan (and others -- thanks to everyone for contributing here), I did
solve my problem, at least to my satisfaction.

The problem, as I did theorize, was the size of the image attempted
to store to the frame. Kodak says in the FAQ that for images to be
stored there prepared in Photoshop, the size should be at least
1280x960, as it further compresses. Wrong! At that size, with
maximum quality, the Photoframe can't handle the image.

Storing them at 640x480 at maximum quality also had problems AT
TIMES. It appears related to the buffer the frame holds. So the
safest it to prepare your images at 640x480 and store around 80
percent quality. This works great.

As for thumbnails -- are you using JPGs shot from the D30, Dan, or
images converted to TIFs from RAW. If the former, I can understand
why they'd retain their embedded thumbs. If the latter (which may
be what others are doing) I don't think the EXIF is written in such
a manner that the JPG has a thumb. I'll play around and
investigate further.

--
Mike
http://www.kelleytown.com
Click to expand...
 
Mohit said:
Mike,

Here's what I did - created two versions of the same image, one at
1280x960 and the other at 640x480, both saved as JPG's using PS 6's
Save for the Web function with quality 60.

The results displayed by the frame were almost identical for both
images - I noticed slightly higher contrast for the higher
resolution image, but pretty subtle. So you're right - Kodak's
recommendation to store images at a higher than 640x480 resolution
is not required.
Click to expand...
It may be worse than that -- if you save at the maximum quality (no compression) I'm going to bet you the Smart Frame won't display your images at all, let alone load them into the frame.

But at least I got it working now.
Mohit said:
I haven't been able to view the thumbnails with these pictures, but
it's not something I'm concerned about. I removed the LCD cover as
mentioned by Joe H., and really like the display quality of this
frame.
Click to expand...
I'd like to figure out the thumbnail thingee only because it bothers me and others have gotten it to work. Plus it would be kind of nice to be able to see what you're deleting.--Mike http://www.kelleytown.com
 
Daniel Lauring said:
I use downsized jpgs, Mike. I don't have the patience or machine
for processing RAWs (though I did just upgrade my 450Mhz to a
1.1Ghz...that would probably help.)

Doesn't the Canon software give you a thumbnail if you use it to
process the RAW file? Isn't it in the CRW file?
Click to expand...
Thumbnail is not in the CRW, but the separate THM file. And processed into TIFs you lose EXIF (along with the thumbnail). So I suspect that's the difference here.

Now, it should be possible to upload the full size TIFS back to the D30 (creating a JPG for those of us who shoot RAW) using ZoomBrowser or some alternative, and then download into PS for further processing. This is exactly what I'll try next (a rather roundabout approach but one that should correctly preserve the thumbs).--Mike http://www.kelleytown.com
 
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