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Sony Alpha Review - noiser than competition

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On a same sized sensor, if you increase pixel count, you'll get noiser for sure. So in order to get less noisey photo while still maintain higher pixel count, you need to go Full Frame.
 
Foxbat121 said:
On a same sized sensor, if you increase pixel count, you'll get
noiser for sure. So in order to get less noisey photo while still
maintain higher pixel count, you need to go Full Frame.
Click to expand...
...which is exactly what some of us want Pentax to do. At least I do. No real hope though for that to happen. But I do trust in the words from Pentax that we'll get surprised by the "K10D".

--
Jonas
 
IMO, the real question is not if it's noisier, it's if it's noisier when resized down to 6MP.
 
Risto Pitkänen said:
Foxbat121 said:
On a same sized sensor, if you increase pixel count, you'll get
noisier for sure.
Click to expand...
Not true.

A (trivial) counterexample:

Canon EOS D30 vs. Canon EOS 30D.
Click to expand...
Note: those CMOS sensors are inheritively noiser than CCD. Kudos to Canon improves on its technology to keep noise down. However, from what I read, EOS30D is still a little bit noiser than *istD series. The noise index of 30D at ISO 200 is about the same or higher than *ist DS/Samsung GX-1S at ISO 800 or even 1600 IIRC.
 
You're claiming the Pentax at iso800 or iso1600 is as clean as the canon 30D at iso200? 2-3 stop difference? I find that hard to believe, given the canon's renowned 'clean' images.
Foxbat121 said:
Note: those CMOS sensors are inheritively noiser than CCD. Kudos to
Canon improves on its technology to keep noise down. However, from
what I read, EOS30D is still a little bit noiser than *istD series.
The noise index of 30D at ISO 200 is about the same or higher than
*ist DS/Samsung GX-1S at ISO 800 or even 1600 IIRC.
Click to expand...
 
Correct. I get the conclusion from two reviews on Pop Photo mag: Samsung GX-1S and Canon 30D.

Here is 30D certified test results posted on PopPhoto.com:

ISO 100: 1.21
ISO 200: 1.22
ISO 400: 1.42
ISO 800: 1.87
ISO 1600: 2.18

I need to get the exact numbers for Samsung GX-1S when I back at home. IIRC, the index stays around 1.1x until ISO 800 or so.
 
Show me your test data to backup your claim.
 
The eyes don't lie, but Pop Photo does. Pop photo recently said that D200 files have less noise than Canon 5D files! Please!

Check any reviewer's 30D or 20D sample files, and use your eyes to compare the files. I have, and the 30D is almost a whole stop better than the Pentaxes.
Foxbat121 said:
Correct. I get the conclusion from two reviews on Pop Photo mag:
Samsung GX-1S and Canon 30D.

Here is 30D certified test results posted on PopPhoto.com:

ISO 100: 1.21
ISO 200: 1.22
ISO 400: 1.42
ISO 800: 1.87
ISO 1600: 2.18

I need to get the exact numbers for Samsung GX-1S when I back at
home. IIRC, the index stays around 1.1x until ISO 800 or so.
Click to expand...
 
I think that goes too far the other way now. There was a site that compared a statue bust in low light with multiple DSLRs, and I believe the Pentax was the best at the really high ISOs.
Micky Rouse said:
Check any reviewer's 30D or 20D sample files, and use your eyes
to compare the files. I have, and the 30D is almost a whole stop
better than the Pentaxes.
Foxbat121 said:
Correct. I get the conclusion from two reviews on Pop Photo mag:
Samsung GX-1S and Canon 30D.

Here is 30D certified test results posted on PopPhoto.com:

ISO 100: 1.21
ISO 200: 1.22
ISO 400: 1.42
ISO 800: 1.87
ISO 1600: 2.18

I need to get the exact numbers for Samsung GX-1S when I back at
home. IIRC, the index stays around 1.1x until ISO 800 or so.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Nope. That test was flawed. Look at Steves or Imaging resources, or Phil's.

From Steves:

20D ISo 1600
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/20d/samples/img_9945.jpg

*istDs ISO 1600



ISO 1600 is very clean on a 20D. Also has tremendous detail especially shooting raw.

Phils:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistds/Samples/ISO/istds_iso1600_crop.jpg

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS30D/Samples/ISO/30d_iso1600_crop.jpg

I've looked at lots of high ISO samples from both Pentax and Canon, and I'd estimate that the Canon 20D/30D has about 2/3 stop or better advantage.
Unda Covalava said:
Micky Rouse said:
Check any reviewer's 30D or 20D sample files, and use your eyes
to compare the files. I have, and the 30D is almost a whole stop
better than the Pentaxes.
Foxbat121 said:
Correct. I get the conclusion from two reviews on Pop Photo mag:
Samsung GX-1S and Canon 30D.

Here is 30D certified test results posted on PopPhoto.com:

ISO 100: 1.21
ISO 200: 1.22
ISO 400: 1.42
ISO 800: 1.87
ISO 1600: 2.18

I need to get the exact numbers for Samsung GX-1S when I back at
home. IIRC, the index stays around 1.1x until ISO 800 or so.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Unda Covalava said:
Micky Rouse said:
Check any reviewer's 30D or 20D sample files, and use your eyes
to compare the files. I have, and the 30D is almost a whole stop
better than the Pentaxes.
Foxbat121 said:
Correct. I get the conclusion from two reviews on Pop Photo mag:
Samsung GX-1S and Canon 30D.

Here is 30D certified test results posted on PopPhoto.com:

ISO 100: 1.21
ISO 200: 1.22
ISO 400: 1.42
ISO 800: 1.87
ISO 1600: 2.18

I need to get the exact numbers for Samsung GX-1S when I back at
home. IIRC, the index stays around 1.1x until ISO 800 or so.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Here is the numbers for Samsung GX-1S:

ISO 200: 0.95
ISO 400: 1.05
ISO 800: 1.23
ISO 1600: 1.59
ISO 3200: 2.21

Correction on Canon 30D on ISO 800: 1.67 instead of 1.87.

Now AF speed:

30D: at 12EV 0.49, at 8 EV 0.55, at 2EV 0.60, at 0EV 0.70

Samsung: at 12EV 0.51, at 8 EV 0.82, at 2EV 1.90, at 0EV 2.00

Explanation of how PopPhoto test these stuff can be found at their site. To me it is quite scientific and objective test.

On the other hand, those who claims 'eye doesn't lie' is called subjective test.
 
I did. Phils review is comoparing an old DS (probably old firmware as well) to 300D. 300D is 6.3 MP while 20D/30D is 8.2MP sensor of same size.
 
With all due respect, without knowing what I'm talking about, how can you determine it was flawed? It was actually very scientific, all shots taken at the same time with the same controlled lighting. The pictures were there for all of us to judge. I'll try to find you the link.
Micky Rouse said:
Nope. That test was flawed.
Click to expand...
 
Exactly.
 
I had DS and loved it. I now have 30D and 5D. The noise I am getting at high iso from my 30D is slightly less than DS at same condition.

What you are saying here is that this shot I took with 30D at iso 1000 must be far~ far~ worst than DS with iso 800 since 30D@iso 200 is worst than DS@iso800. I do not think so


Foxbat121 said:
Risto Pitkänen said:
Foxbat121 said:
On a same sized sensor, if you increase pixel count, you'll get
noisier for sure.
Click to expand...
Not true.

A (trivial) counterexample:

Canon EOS D30 vs. Canon EOS 30D.
Click to expand...
Note: those CMOS sensors are inheritively noiser than CCD. Kudos to
Canon improves on its technology to keep noise down. However, from
what I read, EOS30D is still a little bit noiser than *istD series.
The noise index of 30D at ISO 200 is about the same or higher than
*ist DS/Samsung GX-1S at ISO 800 or even 1600 IIRC.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/jinwoo
 
Why don't you post your DS shot at the same lighting so that we can have something to compare to?
 
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