BH Photo SUCKS!

Walt60320 · Dec 21, 2001

Thank you Peter!!!!

Oh by the way, my cousin works at a Ford plant and you can't imagine what the "new" cars go through before the odometers are even hooked up. At random, these cars are taken and drivin around the plant and even off the plant property. Hehe

That odometer law doesn't even apply until the cars are released from the plant, odometers are hooked up and sealed and then the cars are loaded on trains and or trucks for delivery to the various dealers. And besides it's rare to see a new car with "0" miles on it anyway. Geeezzz

Walt

Peter Stewart said:
I've tried hard throughout this thread but just can't contain myself.

I stand foresquare with Michael and Walt.

Flame or not, you jumped on here with a title – BH Photo sucks! uh?

Because of wrinkled plastic?

Because of a fingerprint on the warranty card?

My Gawd!

By your own statement the lens worked just fine, no scratches, no
evidence of any knd of wear or use.

And the problem is????
Wrinkled plastic?
A fingerprint?

I quite agree you are spoiled rotten to badmouth a company who is
held in very high regard throughout the industry (of course, not
with all; in the good old USA, make a single mistake and you're a
very bad company).

As to feeling the same way (fingerprint) on an autombile, all I can
say is I'm so very thankful I don't know you personally or
professionally.

Personally, if I had received that lens and all the parts were
there and it was in perfect condition showing no signs of use, we
have a done deal.

I have to quit before I get really wound up.

Peter Stewart

Lee Rothman · Dec 21, 2001

Actually, I am VERY glad you asked me this question as I am sure others also would like to know. The distributor in fact DOES send it back to either the main manufacturer or an "agent" that will "Refurbish or restore to "like new" condition. After this service has been performed, then it is offered to select retailers that offer THIS specially prepared (refurbished) product at discounted prices. It is referred to as either "Refurbished" or "B stock". Very common practice and some offer some very good buys. It is just that a retailer SHOULD be honest about ANY product that is NOT sold in a Factory Sealed box. Once a box has been gone through, and the product removed from it's original packaging, it should carry a "Open Box" sticker as far as I am concerned. For those not so anal retentive as some of us, they should be the one's to get all of the "open box" product as it seems from this thread they really DON"T care!

aaron53665 said:
lee, what does the distributer do with the returned merch that's in
perfect working order, do they just smash it with a sledgehammer?
or doesn't it probably go back to the factory where they clean it
(if it needs it) and then repackage it as "factory fresh" in
uncrinkled plastick with unsmudged cards and a sealed box? (i'm
sure there are probably other choices between sledgehammer and
repacking as new, but you get the gist of my question i'm sure)

Brian Mackey · Dec 21, 2001

If that were true, Kelly would have pid the shipping both ways for your replacement and pickup of the "Mac-Lens" or did they, and you just forgot to mention it?

Lee Rothman said:
Brian Mackey said:

Well, anyway Happy Holidays, and Good Luck! next year..

Personally, I have only been screwed by B&H on shipping charges,
hmm and it happended 2 times, seems like a pattern I wouldnt want
to continue to "try my luck" with..

By the Way, 2 companies I can count on 100% all the time everytime,

Berger Brothers in NY (yes I said NY)
-
Norman Camera's in MI

If I cant find what I need with these top level (customer service
driven) companies, then I dont need it that bad..

Peace~Out

Member said:

Maybe you got a bad deal but you were able to return the item and
that says a great deal about B&H right there.

heck I biught cameras from local retailers who would not let me
return them to the store in my own home town the next day!

I'd rather try my luck with B&H than with most of the no-name
camera retailers I see mentioned in this forum.

Click to expand...

--
'I have discovered photography. Now I can kill myself.
I have nothing else to learn.' -- Pablo Picasso
http://members.home.net/mackey135

Click to expand...

--'I have discovered photography. Now I can kill myself. I have nothing else to learn.' -- Pablo Picasso http://members.home.net/mackey135

Lee Rothman · Dec 21, 2001

YES Walt.....I do test drive a car to determine if that model of car is what I want. Then I order it in the color and features that I want in particular. I DON"T buy off the lot. That is what I said and that IS what I do. Sorry if you can't handle it!

Walt said:
Walt

Yatin Chachad said:

Thanks for your support. People do not realize that when they buy
a car is is NEW, when they buy a demo car it is a demo car, and not
exactly new. And you pay a reduced price accordingly. As a
customer, I should be informed if the car I am buying is brand new
or a demo, and I was sold a demo as brand new!
Thank you LMC54

Click to expand...

Lee Rothman · Dec 21, 2001

Perhaps I didn't mention that I SPECIFICALLY ASKED for an UNOPEN one that had not been touched. AFAIAC there are NO Second chances in this kind of situation. They either deliver what I want, or I am DONE with them. That simple really... Now don't go off half cocked and say, well they are probably happy not to be doing business with me. I have spent over $5000 with Delta so far and another $5000 to be spent over the next 3 months. They treat me like FAMILY and have NEVER dissapointed me EVER! They even sent me a thank you for the season and doing business with them. Now THAT is the way to do business......

Brian Mackey said:
Lee Rothman said:

Brian Mackey said:

Well, anyway Happy Holidays, and Good Luck! next year..

Personally, I have only been screwed by B&H on shipping charges,
hmm and it happended 2 times, seems like a pattern I wouldnt want
to continue to "try my luck" with..

By the Way, 2 companies I can count on 100% all the time everytime,

Berger Brothers in NY (yes I said NY)
-
Norman Camera's in MI

If I cant find what I need with these top level (customer service
driven) companies, then I dont need it that bad..

Peace~Out

Brian Mackey said:

Maybe you got a bad deal but you were able to return the item and
that says a great deal about B&H right there.

heck I biught cameras from local retailers who would not let me
return them to the store in my own home town the next day!

I'd rather try my luck with B&H than with most of the no-name
camera retailers I see mentioned in this forum.

Click to expand...

--
'I have discovered photography. Now I can kill myself.
I have nothing else to learn.' -- Pablo Picasso
http://members.home.net/mackey135

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
'I have discovered photography. Now I can kill myself.
I have nothing else to learn.' -- Pablo Picasso
http://members.home.net/mackey135

Lee Rothman · Dec 21, 2001

Talk about HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE! I am just as if not more so glad NOT to know or have anything to do with you either. And furthermore. I sell items to folks that look better (after I have so called used them) than some retailers send out as representative of NEW. Now GET OVER IT DUDE!

Lee Rothman · Dec 21, 2001

Walt said:
Oh by the way, my cousin works at a Ford plant and you can't
imagine what the "new" cars go through before the odometers are
even hooked up. At random, these cars are taken and drivin around
the plant and even off the plant property. Hehe

That odometer law doesn't even apply until the cars are released
from the plant, odometers are hooked up and sealed and then the
cars are loaded on trains and or trucks for delivery to the various
dealers. And besides it's rare to see a new car with "0" miles on
it anyway. Geeezzz

Walt

Peter Stewart said:

I've tried hard throughout this thread but just can't contain myself.

I stand foresquare with Michael and Walt.

Flame or not, you jumped on here with a title – BH Photo sucks! uh?

Because of wrinkled plastic?

Because of a fingerprint on the warranty card?

My Gawd!

By your own statement the lens worked just fine, no scratches, no
evidence of any knd of wear or use.

And the problem is????
Wrinkled plastic?
A fingerprint?

I quite agree you are spoiled rotten to badmouth a company who is
held in very high regard throughout the industry (of course, not
with all; in the good old USA, make a single mistake and you're a
very bad company).

As to feeling the same way (fingerprint) on an autombile, all I can
say is I'm so very thankful I don't know you personally or
professionally.

Personally, if I had received that lens and all the parts were
there and it was in perfect condition showing no signs of use, we
have a done deal.

I have to quit before I get really wound up.

Peter Stewart

Click to expand...

jcwphoto · Dec 21, 2001

Lee Rothman said:
YES Walt.....I do test drive a car to determine if that model of
car is what I want. Then I order it in the color and features that
I want in particular. I DON"T buy off the lot. That is what I said
and that IS what I do. Sorry if you can't handle it!

That would make sense, to try what you want and then order a brand new one, but one of the virtues of test driving is to rule out problems with the specific car. I guess not all cars that come off the assembly belt are guarenteed to be bug-free, and test driving the car lets you determine (as far as you can tell through a test drive) that there are no problems.

Of course, I'd like to think that the car I test drove behaves exactly as the one I order fresh off the delivery truck, but that doesn't always happen. I'm not sure how the guarentees work in this situation, though.

j--jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net

Michael Porter · Dec 21, 2001

Hi Yatin,

Just to be clear, did B&H refund your money?

Yatin Chachad said:
Rome said:

rome

Yatin Chachad said:

I purchased a "Factory Fresh, Brand New Lense" from BHphoto (50mm
1.4), or so I was told, and when the lense arrived, it had shown
signs of use (not misuse), the wrapping was off, the plastic inside
was wrinkled, the warranty card had finger prints on it. But the
lense worked fine. Needless to say, I have returned it, and I will
NOT buy from Bhphoto again. I thought they were the best, but Heck
no! I bought my D30 , and 70-200 F4.0 from Canoga Camera, and it
arrived on time, factoy fresh, in mint condition. I will remain a
Canoga cutomer till I die.

--
Sincerely,
Y. Chachad

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Sincerely,
Y. Chachad

AlexM · Dec 21, 2001

Yatin,

I can't help but notice that you're located in India. Is that right? If that is so.. man.. I admire you for ordering overseas. I know that international orders are common now. I'm just curious, how much did they charge you for shipping? ... and how much did you spend to ship it back? You did read the fine print of B&H policy. What would you do if the item is damaged due to shipping?

I received 2 deliveries from B&H this Wednesday. The 70-200mm L IS lens with the hood was wrapped in a Canon inscribed plastic, then bubble wrapped, then placed inside the soft lens pouch/bag which came with lens, then wrapped again in a Canon inscribed plastic, then placed in styrofoam at both ends, with warranty card neatly folded to show serial number on the outside window, then the box. As I was unwrapping the lens, I did notice that the last plastic was wrinkled but one should not to assume that it's been tampered with or the product is defective or used. It is probably normal for these companies to at least inspect these goods upon receiving them from Canon or even before shipping it to the consumers. The lens was a work of art and a fine piece of equipment. The paintjob reminds me of the now obsolete IBM typewriters because it has the same shade, or better yet the IBM AT computers.

Anyway, I think it was all unintentional... somebody didn't was their hands...

Also, the same situation may happen to you with any vendors out there especially if you're ordering in the internet or by phone. Again, there are risks and by ordering online you already accepted those risks --- more risk if you are ordering overseas.

B&H is not a fly-by-night operation. It's a well established company located in Manhattan, NY. Their website tells you exactly where they're located unlike other internet stores where such information is unpublished --- BEWARE! If you haven't seen the place, I'll be glad to take a picture and send to you. If ever you're in the area, you should visit the store --- it's a photographer's paradise. I'm amused by those conveyors mounted in the ceiling.

I will visit B&H on Sunday to return a 70-200mmL non-IS lens. If you happen to order such lens and coincidentally got this lens, I swear to God, I didn't even touched the lens....

I just opened the box and removed the top styrofoam to visually inspect if everything was in order.

Anyway, what bothers me is you're post. You seem to be a professional; if you are, you should settle this professionally on your own and not drag the rest of the crowd that frequents this forum.... Good luck with your return.

-Alex

Yatin Chachad said:
I purchased a "Factory Fresh, Brand New Lense" from BHphoto (50mm
1.4), or so I was told, and when the lense arrived, it had shown
signs of use (not misuse), the wrapping was off, the plastic inside
was wrinkled, the warranty card had finger prints on it. But the
lense worked fine. Needless to say, I have returned it, and I will
NOT buy from Bhphoto again. I thought they were the best, but Heck
no! I bought my D30 , and 70-200 F4.0 from Canoga Camera, and it
arrived on time, factoy fresh, in mint condition. I will remain a
Canoga cutomer till I die.

--
Sincerely,
Y. Chachad

Mike Kuder · Dec 21, 2001

Yatin Chachad- I feel your pain.

I don't intend to make excuses for B&H. In my opinion they are about as top notch a company as you're going to find. I go to their store fairly often and they have a fantastic selection and great prices. Do you have any idea how much business they do? I don't have time to read every post in this thread, but did you call them for a replacement? What happened?

Clearly B&H is 100% better in every way than many, many other supply houses. I have never been had any problems with them what ever, and will continue to use them whenever possible.

Lee - I see that you often recommend Delta - that's fine but FWIW I would never buy a grey market d30 or L glass. I Just feel that there's too much money at stake to save a hundred bucks here or there. Who wants to deal with mack or any one other than canon for multi-thousand dollar camera (warranty) service? Not a flame, just what I'm comfortable with.

Now, As to the problem at hand...

This whole thing has ticked me off for years, and I think in light of the current thread it is appropriate to ask:

WHY THE HELL DO MANUFACTURERS PACKAGE THEIR EXPENSIVE CAMERA EQUIPMENT IN THE CHEAPEST, LEAST TAMPER EVIDENT PACKAGING YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE? ALL THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO TO ELIMINATE THIS ENTIRE PROBLEM IS SEAL THEIR CARTONS WITH A TAMPER LABEL OR ADHESIVE STRIP OR SHRINK WRAP!

Now I know that I'm not the only sharpie in the shed, so it seems to me that the manufacturers don't want to do this. Why do you suppose that would be?

There is virtually no other product available for retail purchase that is packaged in such a poor manner. Cd's? Sealed. Food? Sealed. Computers? Sealed. You get my point.

I know there are some who would say that cameras are a little different, given than they are "tried out" at POS. So you have 1 demo model on the counter and when the customer decides, you go get one from the back, just like every other store in the world. Their would be no reason to open it...as I always do... to make sure everything's in there, because it would be absolutely FACTORY SEALED!

Perhaps the advent of e-tailing will make this improvement mandatory in coming years. I hope so.

BTW - warning to all... you shouldn't buy a sigma 17-35 for canon mount from B&H for a while, because they brought one up from stock for me to check out. I didn't buy it. Wonder where it went ;-)

Best of the Holidays to you all. And thanks for all your valuable insights on these forums. I'm fairly new here - and glad to have found you!

Mike

Mike Kuder · Dec 21, 2001

AlexM said:
B&H is not a fly-by-night operation. It's a well established
company located in Manhattan, NY. Their website tells you exactly
where they're located unlike other internet stores where such
information is unpublished --- BEWARE!

VERY good point.

AlexM said:
If you haven't seen the
place, I'll be glad to take a picture and send to you. If ever
you're in the area, you should visit the store --- it's a
photographer's paradise. I'm amused by those conveyors mounted in
the ceiling.

LOL!

I am particularly fond of the fuji film box gondolas myself!

I wish I made in a year what those guys gross on one Sunday! It's an utterly amazing experience.

best,
Mike

OU_WxGuesser · Dec 21, 2001

Unfortunately, good packaging costs a few cents more. No big deal, but when you multiply this by the gross you come up with a very large sum. Answer found. On my take with the BH situation... Seems BH gets bad rep come holiday time. I wonder how much of this stems from the hiring of seasonal workers who don't know jack. Either way every place is going to screw up some amount of times or another... even your local store. Having worked at a small local store before, I know that customer service is priority #1 for most places. However, since they are smaller prices are higher.... and hence the large places like BH win out. To get the best of both worlds is very rare today.

Aaron------------------------------------------------------------------Aaron Kennedy http://students.ou.edu/K/Aaron.D.Kennedy-1/-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Kuder · Dec 21, 2001

OU_WxGuesser said:
Unfortunately, good packaging costs a few cents more. No big deal,
but when you multiply this by the gross you come up with a very
large sum. Answer found. On my take with the BH situation...
Seems BH gets bad rep come holiday time. I wonder how much of
this stems from the hiring of seasonal workers who don't know jack.
Either way every place is going to screw up some amount of times
or another... even your local store. Having worked at a small
local store before, I know that customer service is priority #1 for
most places. However, since they are smaller prices are higher....
and hence the large places like BH win out. To get the best of
both worlds is very rare today.

Aaron

Point well taken, but why is it that when you buy a DVD player for a hundred bucks that manufacturer can afford a piece of imprinted tape?

Or a $15. CD can be wrapped in cello. Know what I mean? There seems to be something else at work here other than margins.

As far as the local vs discounter, I have found that it's hard to get good advice/service anywhere you go these days, agreed? Often when I am in a local camera shop I feel very much as if they have an agenda, trying to sell me what they want to sell, not what would necessarily be best for me. Often this is because they simply do not have the selection of B&H (or other).

Mike

AlexM · Dec 21, 2001

Mike,

I didn't know how to call those boxes --- I thought the whole thing was a clever idea.

B&H is closed on Dec.24. I wonder what those guys will be doing... wrapping gifts for Santa perhaps...

Merry Xmas!
-Alex

Mike Kuder said:
I am particularly fond of the fuji film box gondolas myself!

Yatin Chachad · Dec 21, 2001

For all those who have visited and participated in this posting I thank you. For those who do not agree with what I have to say, refer to the above Subject statement. Next time you go to your grocery store, buy a pizza that's been opened by someone, and oh well, he didn't take a bite out of it, but maybe just a lick, before he decided he didn't want it. Enjoy.

Yes I am a professional. A Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering in a major company, currently in USA for short period. I treat my clients with respect, and expect the same when I am one. No lies, no games.
Thank you.
Y. Chachad--Sincerely,Y. Chachad

Michael Porter · Dec 21, 2001

Yatrin

I've read all these posts but I'm still not clear about one point and I think important that it not be left vague. Did B&H refund your money?

Yatin Chachad said:
For all those who have visited and participated in this posting I
thank you. For those who do not agree with what I have to say,
refer to the above Subject statement. Next time you go to your
grocery store, buy a pizza that's been opened by someone, and oh
well, he didn't take a bite out of it, but maybe just a lick,
before he decided he didn't want it. Enjoy.
Yes I am a professional. A Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering in a
major company, currently in USA for short period. I treat my
clients with respect, and expect the same when I am one. No lies,
no games.
Thank you.
Y. Chachad
--
Sincerely,
Y. Chachad

Lee Rothman · Dec 21, 2001

AMEN Yatin......Perfectly put!

Yatin Chachad said:
For all those who have visited and participated in this posting I
thank you. For those who do not agree with what I have to say,
refer to the above Subject statement. Next time you go to your
grocery store, buy a pizza that's been opened by someone, and oh
well, he didn't take a bite out of it, but maybe just a lick,
before he decided he didn't want it. Enjoy.
Yes I am a professional. A Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering in a
major company, currently in USA for short period. I treat my
clients with respect, and expect the same when I am one. No lies,
no games.
Thank you.
Y. Chachad
--
Sincerely,
Y. Chachad

Joseph Henry · Dec 21, 2001

OU_WxGuesser said:
Unfortunately, good packaging costs a few cents more. No big deal,
but when you multiply this by the gross you come up with a very
large sum. Answer found>
Aaron
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Kennedy
http://students.ou.edu/K/Aaron.D.Kennedy-1/
---------------------------------------------------

Aaron, a few cents more for good packaging? - I'll pay it. As for "multiply by the gross you come up with a very large sum", well I think B&H can easily cover this cost. There is no excuse for poor customer service nor cutting corners to "save a few cents". Joseph.

blang · Dec 21, 2001

It would be literally impossible for a business with the volume of B&H to not once in a while have an unhappy customer, it's how they rectify the problem that really makes the difference. Granted if you are one of thise few customers with a problem it's frustrating but I'm quite sure B&H will make it right.

To put it in some perspective realize that B&H does more business in one day than most other camera stores do in a whole year. Percentage wise they probably have more happy customers than most stores.

BH Photo SUCKS!

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