Wow! Here's a new one!

It sure does not happen often but what a refreshing treat when it does! Be sure that client gets a little extra something at the holidays... ;-)

I've had that happen exactly ONCE in my life. In the middle of a family medical crisis, photo buyer calls from a major publisher we work with wanting some usage fees for a cover/inside pics on a revised edition of a book we did years ago. I was hurried and not thinking due to family distractions and threw out a number (based on re-use) that seemed okay to me. He paused on the end of the phone and tells me that he thought the numbers were too low and proceeded to offer me almost DOUBLE the amounts. I thanked him profusely and made sure he got more than our normal holiday promo gift that year!!

Sadly, it's usually just the opposite - they all think we charge too much and want it lower and lower. Congrats on getting a good client - keep 'em forever 'cause they are hard to find like that!
--
Eric in Florida
 
Congratulations, that's a good sign to raise your rates. I have been shot down on the last three jobs for not coming down. My rates are lower than they have ever been, yet I'm spending more money on software and camera upgrades, not to speak of cost of living increases like electric, insurance, and gasoline expenses. I can't understand how photographers can continue to shoot for less.

Do you think $500 per photo + expenses used for advertising, is a lot of money for a large corporation. Most want to pay $1k-2K to shoot as many photos as humanly possible in one day. I have been asked to shoot as many as 25-100 shots in one day!

Why are are rates going down? are photographers so eager to work that they don't care about making a living? Let's all double are rates tomorrow, regardless of what they are, and just say "I'm not going to work for the same price photographers got 20 years ago".

Sorry for the negative take on this but if your client wants to pay you more, it's because it's worth more.

Dan
 
Dan,
your words could have come from me (seems as if I don't own the copyright ;-))

Seriously, good to hear that it's a world wide problem and not locally restricted.
--
cheers, Peter

Germany
 
Peter and Dan,

Take a look at my just posted "Devaluing Photography". While I hadn't read your respective posts in this thread prior to starting that new one, it was prompted by my concern that many of us are still working for 20 year old wages. Reading the linked article that started it is interesting

Some of this is psychological - most people in the arts have a hard time properly valuing their product.

Some of it's market driven - too many "Uncle Harry and his digital Rebel" competitors devaluing our craft. Hey, if they could have looked at their Canon or Nikon film cameras and known they had it nailed as we can now, maybe this would have started earlier. I know I spent a lot of time interpreting what my 4x5 and med format Polaroids were really telling me.

So be assured, it's everywhere. In 2003 I was contacted by Rangefinder in a nationwide poll of photographers post 9/11. After I took the poll, I asked what the woman was learning and was saddened when she said that since that day, 50% of all studios in the country had closed or were about to. I know I had almost no business between Sept 01 and April the next year. That was scary

My business is nowhere near what it was prior to 9/11, although it's recovering.

--
jrbehm
http://web.mac.com/jrbehm/iWeb/Site/Truchas,%20NM.html
 
that is a great story i am glad you shared it. i think similar things hapen to many photographers. i hate to go negative but so many buyers (publishers in particular) are looking at the bottom line they never really consider what good photography does for them. It sounds like you have a photo buyer that apreciates good work.
Dave
 
They sound like they understand life has to be win/win for it to be right. Its easy for us to all intellectualize but few people will actually step up to the plate and do the right thing when they know or sense it isn't right.

For your part, you've been lucky enough to have been touched by someone of that ilk. The only thing better would be to be someone of that ilk. Perhaps you'll have an opportunity now that you've experienced what you have to now experience it from the other side and pass it on.

Mark
 
That's a very interesting post Jeff. Why do your think 9/11
impacted your business so much?
Strictly insecurity - emotional, psychological, fiscal. What had been discretionary funds became a hedge against the unknown. Given the recent news from Palestine/Israel, it may happen again. Advertising monies, wedding funds, family portraits - that money becomes a hedge against the $5 gallon of gas or the $15 bottle of water if there's a bio attack.

We actually had brides call post 9/11 and downgrade their packages to whatever they'd already paid, they weren't spending any more. They changed reception locations when necessary, too. For a time no one knew what the future held. Your profile says you're from the US, surely you recall the state of the nation then?

About the time our business started the tiniest rebound, we went into Afghanistan and everybody help their breath again which slowed that recovery.

The woman from the Rangefinder poll basically said she'd learned that most of the smaller studios just didn't have enough cash reserves to float until things returned. As I said before, only last year have we begun to come back to something normal.

And what do we do about it? We tap into what people need, and find a way to provide that.
--
jrbehm
http://web.mac.com/jrbehm/iWeb/Site/Truchas,%20NM.html
 
One client does not bat an eye at spending 20K to get a good shot of a little restaurant (for national advertising) and another one thinks they should pay 50.00/hour tops and no use fees.

Drives me nuts. The good thing is, now that I am shooting digital, I get the work out the door lickity-split and my clients have never been happier. Looking at my best year for 2006 after some pretty rough times after 9/11. I was down 30% in 2002 and another 17% in 2003. Last year I was up almost 40% from the prior year and this year is up about 15% over last year so far.

--

'Hmmm, I wonder what deep thought might convince these guys I am some kind of artist...'
http://www.jimroofcreative.com
 
Interesting and yes I clearly remember the panic but none of it affected my business at all (IT consulting.) Today, however, the increased energy costs have had a direct impact on my business. Capital expediters have gone way down and that has a direct impact on my income. I averaged 2 -3 new system installs a quarter (I have a small business) right after 9/11 now I'm lucky to get one new system install in 1/2 year. If it weren't for the service contracts that follow new installs I'd be looking for something new to do.

--
Rob Kircher
My Stuff: http://www.pbase.com/rkircher
 
"So be assured, it's everywhere. In 2003 I was contacted by Rangefinder in a nationwide poll of photographers post 9/11. After I took the poll, I asked what the woman was learning and was saddened when she said that since that day, 50% of all studios in the country had closed or were about to. I know I had almost no business between Sept 01 and April the next year. That was scary"

What's scary to me is it's the industry as a whole. I've talked with so many within this industry, labs, supply houses, etcc.... The whole industry is shifting to a consumer market. When I bought my D2x, I asked my sales lady what should I expect quality print wise, she said I don't know what to tell you yet, we've only sold so far to Drs and Lawyers and their wives. They'd sold over 25 before mine. The major Labs have cheap divisions with other names, credit card only setups, no support, no finishing. They are using the same equipment as the Pro Division. Heck their cost are high, forget about how much a Theta cost, look at the software and maintaince contracts expense. A friend who owns 2 Noritzus, a Chromira, and a Melinka had a buddy of his call him to say I'm leaving (so-n-so company) are sales a falling fast.

Back to what the post is about, I've never had a customer tell me I had the price right, the appreciative ones thought I was too cheap, the others thought I was too expensive. 9/11 was a turning point in this industry, many lost jobs to never be replaced and secondary careers as photogs sprung up. How many times have you heard someone say, so-n-so is pretty good, I told them they should turn Professional. I hear it a lot, until recent I've never had but one Bride go into photography, the past few years 4-5 have had a try at it.
 
churn out the same compositions week in week out is it any wonder brides look for the cheapest photographer? So many brides Id may add want to spend £1000, hello good-bye, let Mr. P-T handel thats cr*p. They are so naive a chimp could compile a wedding album these days. Please anyone from USA do a search for 'UK based wedding photographers' look at around 12 and tell me how many pictures from the gallery sections have a lasting impression on you?...

Personally I never look at ANY wedding photographers work anymore because it is so cliched and poor and I mean POOR i can kick ass from 95% but 5% of the general public know good photography...shame, at the same time got to love them el cheapo plastic albums with 30 group shots ALL in colour going for £599, lol.
 

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