RawShooter

LVPG · Jul 14, 2006

Realizing, of course, this is the Kodak forum, I know there are some Nikon shooters here as well-- so, I post it for them.

I downloaded a free copy of RAW SHOOTER ESSENTIALS about a week ago and have been playing with it since. In short, it is to the D200 what PD is to the Kodak; a very efficient RAW converter. More advanced than PD, with better controls, workflow seem similar. It really is a nice little program. I can understand why Adobe picked them up as it makes clear how cumbersome BRIDGE really is. Additionally, [as I always comment on how soft D200 images seem], images seem quite sharp and detailed.

If you haven't tried it, IMO, it's worth the download.
--
Rick

We all know what it can't do. Show me what you can do with it.

muchomaas · Jul 14, 2006

LVPG said:
I downloaded a free copy of RAW SHOOTER ESSENTIALS about a week > ago...If you haven't tried it, IMO, it's worth the download.

I've used it with my 20D, and I agree, it's nice. So far it's been the best (for me anyway) converter I've tested. I just wish it ran on Macs. I'd like to use it as my converter for my 20D, but I need to upgrade my PC before using it full time.

LVPG · Jul 14, 2006

to what Adobe will do with it.

Many, here on the forum, on well aware of my post-processing interest [it's not much]. After using Bible, ARC, PD, SilkyPix, Capture and the painfully slow RawMagic, plus more I've forgetten, RAW SHOOTER is a pleasure to use. Even on my modest 2.0ghz, 512RAM laptop, the program is very fast. And the controls, though very layman oriented, are very nice. On my somewhat increased performance DeskTop, it pretty much real-time. Not too bad for a 5mb program. Makes me wish I'd have tried the premier edition.

--
Rick

We all know what it can't do. Show me what you can do with it.

DavidMillier · Jul 14, 2006

I use rse on evertthing except the 14n. It has the best UI of any converter I've tried. I have stopped using phase one capture 1 even though I paid for it....

LVPG said:
to what Adobe will do with it.

Many, here on the forum, on well aware of my post-processing
interest [it's not much]. After using Bible, ARC, PD, SilkyPix,
Capture and the painfully slow RawMagic, plus more I've forgetten,
RAW SHOOTER is a pleasure to use. Even on my modest 2.0ghz, 512RAM
laptop, the program is very fast. And the controls, though very
layman oriented, are very nice. On my somewhat increased
performance DeskTop, it pretty much real-time. Not too bad for a
5mb program. Makes me wish I'd have tried the premier edition.

--
Rick

We all know what it can't do. Show me what you can do with it.

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

Big Ga · Jul 14, 2006

DMillier said:
I use rse on evertthing except the 14n. It has the best UI of any
converter I've tried. I have stopped using phase one capture 1 even
though I paid for it....

Hmmmm.... if you use it on everything, why on earth didn't you buy the premium version? I can't imagine the frustration of NOT having the extra features of RSP !?!

DavidMillier · Jul 14, 2006

what extra features? rse has everything I need except perhaps the ability to view non raw images

Big Ga said:
DMillier said:

I use rse on evertthing except the 14n. It has the best UI of any
converter I've tried. I have stopped using phase one capture 1 even
though I paid for it....

Click to expand...

Hmmmm.... if you use it on everything, why on earth didn't you buy
the premium version? I can't imagine the frustration of NOT having
the extra features of RSP !?!

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

the signatory · Jul 14, 2006

DMillier said:
I use rse on evertthing except the 14n. It has the best UI of any
converter I've tried. I have stopped using phase one capture 1 even
though I paid for it....

Hi Dave,

Out of interest have you tried RAW Therapee? I happened upon it by chance today and haven't yet given it a blast. Just completed reading the comparison of the other RAW converters here:
http://www.rawtherapee.com/comparison.html

It seems to be the only website I can find with reasonably up-to-date software versions for the main products tested. Excepting, that is, RAW Magick, which he rather curiously states as not having "...been able to test exhaustively", whatever that means.

--
Kind regards,
Nigel

Kodak DSLR Beta Firmware requests: Please send an email to my profile address above, including the word 'FIRMWARE' in the subject line. If you use a spam filtering service, then please ensure you add my email address to your 'Approved' list, as I haven't the time to cope with bounced emails. Thank you.

LVPG · Jul 14, 2006

DMillier said:
what extra features? rse has everything I need except perhaps the
ability to view non raw images
Big Ga wrote:

Funny Dave, I kind of like the fact that it's only RAW-- Keeps the program very efficient. To me, it's like having Bridge and ARC in one clean, neat, fast package. I like that it is just that, a simple RAW converter.

I absolutely agree about the UI. It actually makes me like processing RAW files.

--
Rick

We all know what it can't do. Show me what you can do with it.

Big Ga · Jul 14, 2006

LVPG said:
I kind of like the fact that it's only RAW-- Keeps the
program very efficient. To me, it's like having Bridge and ARC in
one clean, neat, fast package. I like that it is just that, a
simple RAW converter.

I absolutely agree about the UI. It actually makes me like
processing RAW files.

The lack of JPG support is THE number one thing that I (and others) gripe about with Rawshooter. The problem has been compounded by how good RSP actualy is to use (note RSP, not RSE) because with it I can take a RAW file and do ALL the PP work I'd ever want to do on a large percentage of the images. Photoshop now doesn't even come into the equation. RAW to JPG or TIFF in one easy stage.

But then I've got high hopes for lightroom. I think this will be the one that will do everything I need (at least for now ;-)

Big Ga · Jul 14, 2006

DMillier said:
what extra features? rse has everything I need except perhaps the
ability to view non raw images

What do you mean 'what extra features' ?
There is a reason RSE is free and RSP has to be bought you know ;-)

I suppose someone who wants to do little other than open a RAW file and view it/do simple sorting before doing any further low volume PP work in an additional program might find RSE adequate feature wise (the UI and speed is superb in both), but as I said, there are many very compelling, nay essential (doh!) reasons why RSP becomes a must buy, especially if you love using the Pixmantec GUI

DavidMillier · Jul 15, 2006

I don't raw converters to be able to process jpgs and tiffs, just to know they are in a folder. Because I use 4 different cameras it's a pain having to use two or three different programs just to find out what's in a folder...

RSE happily tells you there are no rawfiles to be found but you know there is something in there. All it needs to do is list the filenames...

LVPG said:
DMillier said:

what extra features? rse has everything I need except perhaps the
ability to view non raw images
Big Ga wrote:

Click to expand...

Funny Dave, I kind of like the fact that it's only RAW-- Keeps the
program very efficient. To me, it's like having Bridge and ARC in
one clean, neat, fast package. I like that it is just that, a
simple RAW converter.

I absolutely agree about the UI. It actually makes me like
processing RAW files.

--
Rick

We all know what it can't do. Show me what you can do with it.

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

DavidMillier · Jul 15, 2006

So what are they? When it first came out it seemed to offer a couple of minor extras but nothing of use to me. What are the features you use?

Big Ga said:
DMillier said:

what extra features? rse has everything I need except perhaps the
ability to view non raw images

Click to expand...

What do you mean 'what extra features' ?
There is a reason RSE is free and RSP has to be bought you know ;-)

I suppose someone who wants to do little other than open a RAW file
and view it/do simple sorting before doing any further low volume
PP work in an additional program might find RSE adequate feature
wise (the UI and speed is superb in both), but as I said, there are
many very compelling, nay essential (doh!) reasons why RSP becomes
a must buy, especially if you love using the Pixmantec GUI

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

Big Ga · Jul 15, 2006

DMillier said:
So what are they? When it first came out it seemed to offer a
couple of minor extras but nothing of use to me. What are the
features you use?

Off the top of my head .....

2 sec flat horizon straightening and crop tool - this is worth going RSP alone IMHO! The crop is also selectable in both preset and user customisable aspec ratios. very handy if you have known print sizes.
Curves !!!! how can you live without curves!?!?

Vibrance tool (they could rename this 'Jono look' ... they're on to you Mr Slack!), its really not sales guff, it does give saturation withot going OTT.
Comprehensive batch renaming facility (a godsend for the way we work)
Batch proof output
Side by side viewing of multiple images for quality selection
enhanced processing like noise reduction (albeit a bit dodgy)
etc etc

There are a load of other things as well that we don't really use, but I can imagine other people not wanting to do without. There is a comparison page somewhere on the Pixmantec site.

As I said previously, I can see someone who's just getting into RAW or someone who shoots a very low volume of shots liking RSE to dip their toe in the water so to speak, but then the main benefit of the program is its very fast preview and selection if you have loads of pics .... in which case RSP makes sense for its volume batch enhancements anyway?

Since you can't crop or do curves etc in RSE, you'll need something like photoshop. Hence if you are just doing one or two shots, almost pointless using RSE (although it does look nice ;-) - use Bridge and ACR, but if you have lots of shots, you probably need RSP anyway?

besides, it was only $60 on a number of times when they had the promo offers and only $100 otherwise. Bot really worth being cheap over. Which is probably the reason Pixmantec offer the free RSE in the first place.

I should be in marketing.......

DavidMillier · Jul 15, 2006

Thanks for that but there is nothing in that list that seems particularly useful to me.

My workflow is very simple:

Stick card in reader, copy files to folder.

Load rse, wait for it to compile thumbnails/profiles etc.

Scan through looking for any interesting shots.

Auto white balance

Auto exposure

If that looks ok, convert to 16 bit tiff

If not, fiddle colour temp/exp comp/shadow & highlight contrast until it looks reasonable then convert.

Load Picture window, crop, use levels or curves as necessary

Sharpen, save as jpeg.

Load focus magic, sharpen.

Back to Picture Window to print.

This is all with my Canon's. If I'm using the Kodak then I jump through hoops with photoshop.

My photoshop is version 6 so no thumbnail viewer, no bridge, no ACR. I do have elements 3 which has a simple version of ACR - I use it very occasionally. I have disabled the cataloguing bit of Elements as I don't like it. For cataloguing I use Imatch.

ps

What's batch?

Big Ga said:
DMillier said:

So what are they? When it first came out it seemed to offer a
couple of minor extras but nothing of use to me. What are the
features you use?

Click to expand...

Off the top of my head .....
2 sec flat horizon straightening and crop tool - this is worth
going RSP alone IMHO! The crop is also selectable in both preset
and user customisable aspec ratios. very handy if you have known
print sizes.
Curves !!!! how can you live without curves!?!?
Vibrance tool (they could rename this 'Jono look' ... they're on to
you Mr Slack!), its really not sales guff, it does give saturation
withot going OTT.
Comprehensive batch renaming facility (a godsend for the way we work)
Batch proof output
Side by side viewing of multiple images for quality selection
enhanced processing like noise reduction (albeit a bit dodgy)
etc etc

There are a load of other things as well that we don't really use,
but I can imagine other people not wanting to do without. There is
a comparison page somewhere on the Pixmantec site.
As I said previously, I can see someone who's just getting into RAW
or someone who shoots a very low volume of shots liking RSE to dip
their toe in the water so to speak, but then the main benefit of
the program is its very fast preview and selection if you have
loads of pics .... in which case RSP makes sense for its volume
batch enhancements anyway?

Since you can't crop or do curves etc in RSE, you'll need something
like photoshop. Hence if you are just doing one or two shots,
almost pointless using RSE (although it does look nice ;-) - use
Bridge and ACR, but if you have lots of shots, you probably need
RSP anyway?
besides, it was only $60 on a number of times when they had the
promo offers and only $100 otherwise. Bot really worth being cheap
over. Which is probably the reason Pixmantec offer the free RSE in
the first place.

I should be in marketing.......

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

GodSpeaks · Jul 15, 2006

Batch allows you to mass process many files unattended.

In RSP you would apply your settings to each file (as a group, or individually, or both), then once you had finished applying your setting to each raw file, select all the files, then pass them to the queue and RSP takes over and starts processing all the files based on your settings.

At this point you can walk away and go have a coffee. For me, I usually process anything from 200 to 800 photos at a time. So this is a great way to do it.
--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

Rayna Butler

DavidMillier · Jul 15, 2006

Cheers!

Not for me I think. Each of my shots gets a dedicated 2 minutes of attention! Couldn't be doing with that mass production stuff...

GodSpeaks said:
Batch allows you to mass process many files unattended.

In RSP you would apply your settings to each file (as a group, or
individually, or both), then once you had finished applying your
setting to each raw file, select all the files, then pass them to
the queue and RSP takes over and starts processing all the files
based on your settings.

At this point you can walk away and go have a coffee. For me, I
usually process anything from 200 to 800 photos at a time. So this
is a great way to do it.
--
The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves
into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

Rayna Butler

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

Paul Spatafora · Jul 15, 2006

Hi Nigel,

I downloaded it and I'm looking at it. I have been looking at Bibble again as my primary RAW Developer. It's fast and has all the bells and whisltes you could want. My trail expired and I'm waiting to extended it when they get the tethering fixed.

The developers as getting better and better all the time. I'm quite happy with the results my camera is giving me no matter what converter I'm using.

Paul

the signatory · Jul 16, 2006

Paul Spatafora said:
Hi Nigel,

I downloaded it and I'm looking at it. I have been looking at
Bibble again as my primary RAW Developer. It's fast and has all the
bells and whisltes you could want. My trail expired and I'm waiting
to extended it when they get the tethering fixed.

The developers as getting better and better all the time. I'm quite
happy with the results my camera is giving me no matter what
converter I'm using.

Hi Paul, I can't get it to run on my comp because it needs a P4 2Ghz chip minimum to run it. My comp still only has a P3 1.4Ghz. I did manage to get it going on my P4Mobile chipped laptop though running at 1.7Ghz, but the lcd screen is not best suited to critical photographic work, and I can never quite trust what I am seeing.

So, the little time I've had to try it out has revealed some negative issues already.

1. It won't produce DCR thumbnails in the file browser. Just an empty frame, with the filename beneath.
2. Just like RML, it won't show the correct Exif data.

3. It doesn't seem capable of tackling CA (green/magenta fringing along high contrast edges).

4. The Click balance tool is way off. Strangely, he says he's completely rewritten it for this latest version too.

However, I was very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the image it renders at the default settings just after opening up the file. I also like the GUI and it reminds me of Bibble to some extent, only less cluttered but less well featured, obviously. However, like RML. it is still very much a work in progress and something to keep one's eye on certainly, but not ready for prime time, as they say. ;-)

Speaking of RML, did you notice we had Peter proudly announcing the imminent arrival of the alpha version of RMeX last Friday week? Still waiting! LOL

Best
--
Kind regards,
Nigel

Kodak DSLR Beta Firmware requests: Please send an email to my profile address above, including the word 'FIRMWARE' in the subject line. If you use a spam filtering service, then please ensure you add my email address to your 'Approved' list, as I haven't the time to cope with bounced emails. Thank you.

DavidMillier · Jul 16, 2006

Hi Nigel

I've just downloaded a copy. Seems OK at first glance. A decent UI but the layout doesn't appear to be customisable.

When you are using two small monitors in a dual config, customisable is good...

the signatory said:
DMillier said:

I use rse on evertthing except the 14n. It has the best UI of any
converter I've tried. I have stopped using phase one capture 1 even
though I paid for it....

Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

Out of interest have you tried RAW Therapee? I happened upon it by
chance today and haven't yet given it a blast. Just completed
reading the comparison of the other RAW converters here:
http://www.rawtherapee.com/comparison.html

It seems to be the only website I can find with reasonably
up-to-date software versions for the main products tested.
Excepting, that is, RAW Magick, which he rather curiously states as
not having "...been able to test exhaustively", whatever that
means.

--
Kind regards,
Nigel

Kodak DSLR Beta Firmware requests: Please send an email to my
profile address above, including the word 'FIRMWARE' in the subject
line. If you use a spam filtering service, then please ensure you
add my email address to your 'Approved' list, as I haven't the time
to cope with bounced emails. Thank you.

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

the signatory · Jul 16, 2006

DMillier said:
Hi Nigel

I've just downloaded a copy. Seems OK at first glance. A decent UI
but the layout doesn't appear to be customisable.

When you are using two small monitors in a dual config,
customisable is good...

I didn't notice that, Dave. It just so happens I had to lend an acquaintance my second monitor a few days ago as an emergency substitute, so that explains why I didn't get round to checking that out.

Have you by any chance discovered what the 'Transform' tab is supposed to do in the Adjustments panel? It's not mentioned in the extremely brief online User manual page, and just shows as blank when selected!

--
Kind regards,
Nigel

Kodak DSLR Beta Firmware requests: Please send an email to my profile address above, including the word 'FIRMWARE' in the subject line. If you use a spam filtering service, then please ensure you add my email address to your 'Approved' list, as I haven't the time to cope with bounced emails. Thank you.

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