Types, Quality of Studio Lights

I'll offer my experience here as I recently went through the same
process. I'm an amateur, and since getting the D30, I find I'm
exploring photography in areas that I never considered before.
That camera has a way of seducing you to spend more money...

I considered the Canon flash option (would get a ST-E2 and
a 420EX to go with my 550ex), but would need stands,
umbrellas, and ??? so I decided to go with a "complete" kit
that would cost less than the flash option.

I researched and decided I wanted to get some monolights.
I knew I wanted a modeling light (since I have no exprience,
I wanted SOME idea of what the setup would produce), and
at least 3 lights in order to experiment. In addition, I wanted
a softlight, and different sized umbrellas.

My goal in the whole setup was to allow me to experiment
as much as possible and learn, while not spending too much.
(I'd rather spend the $$$ on some new lenses I need)

Most monolights were priced beyond where I wanted to be,
but I found Britek to be a popular "cheap" brand. I'm a firm
believer in the "you get what you pay for" philosohy, but in
this case I wanted something innexpensive to play with.
http://www.briteklight.com/ and I was willing to put up with
inferior construction.

I ordered a complete kit from a dealer (and there are many
on eBay and elsewhere) featuring 2 300w/s lights and a
150w/s light. These light feature 1,1/2,1/4 power, slave,
test trigger, 150W modeling lamp w/on/off (and it adjusts
to power setting), and a few more features... they come
with stands, reflectors, umbrellas, synch cables, and I added
a softbox, barn doors, and a couple of other items including
carry cases for everything.

The whole package came to around $600, and though I
have not had much time to try them yet, I am satisfied
with what I got for my money. They are mostly plastic
construction on the cases, and have wimpy mounts to
the stands, but they are OK for my needs. As soon as I
gain more experience, I can make a much better decision
when I spend much $$$ for a better setup. (and I can
always use what I have to supplement that)

In summary, I spent ~$600 for Britek monolights and I
am satisfied as a beginner. Once I start using these, I
will post some pictures.

I posted some I took the other day at ISO800 here
http://66.66.146.36:9600/ (these were not done
with the lights; totaly seperate set of pics)

I will add that I also purchased a flash meter, and the
Weis SafeSync just to be safe...

Member said:

You tend to use a flash meter ($50 to $400 depending on what you
want) so you don't need to guess, but you do have to meter when you
move the lights, or if the model moves a lot.

Click to expand...

I ended up ordering a Minolta IVf for around ~$200. Works well,
and came highly recommended.

Anyway, that's my experience. If anyone has further
questions, feel free to post or email me directly.

• EA

I don't mind getting> Paul Buff's White Lightning that people are recommending, but I> want to know what else the money is getting and if there are> something better than Paul Buff's White Lightning.>

Of course there is "better" than White-Lightning. I have used Elinchrom maybe a bit better but also $1450 for 1200 WS. For someone who is just starting out a 1,000 WS white-lighning is only $500. with 2.9 sec recycle, 5 f-stops of continuously variable flashpower range. You cannot beat the value. Its also used by many "pros" Art Ketchum among others.

They are easy to handle, and the modeling light and sliders give complete control over the lighting.

• Mark

http://www.photoshift.com

Edward,

I had one of these before I got White-lightning and they are really junk.
The quality of these things is just unacceptable.

• mark

Member said:

You get what you pay for. A meter for less than $100 bucks is a pretty sorry excuse for a meter. That's why I said $100 to $300. Some meters go beyond $300.

Click to expand...

A lot of people who have the WIEN say it is accurate as a "real" meter, just hard to read at lower stops (linear scale for a logorimitc function), and doesn't mesure ambient or avg multiple readings, and has a fixed ISO (so you need to convert stops in your head).

They use to be pro meters when they first came out. Well for the pros who were wussy enough to need a meter rather then compute all the distances and bounces in their head

Sounds livable on a budget.

I'm not on so much of a budget, but I do love a deal which is why I got the used IVf which is a whole lot more readable then the WIEN, and deals with film speeds for me. It also does a lot of other things that I currently have no use for, and probbably never will (cine speeds, memory, avg), and a few things that I will (ambiant metering).

What would a $300+ meter get me? (even if it isn't useful to me, I love trivia, so if you would be so kind...)

Member said:

The manufacturers of monos and strobes "fudge" a lot on the actual power output of their lights. That's why I didn't get into lumens or watt seconds. Most specs are off by a good margin.

Click to expand...

I agree, it is far more useful to know what exposure you'll get through a softbox (of corse for a real comparisin eveyone needs the same meters, softboxes, color and size room...which seems like a lot of bother to go through).

Member said:

Takes a lot of wattage from a bulb to get the faster shutter speeds readily obtainable with a 600 watt second set of monos.

Click to expand...

Ok, so monos are good for faster shutter times (or smaller f-stops) and less heat. Hot lights are better for mixing with motion video, getting motion blur (in pictures where you want it), simpler to visulise then mono lights (even monos with adjustable modeling lights). Did I miss anything? (I left out price, because I'm not sure which really is cheaper)

Member said:

Member said:

Film? Arn't we in a digital group?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Member said:

We are both. Film and digital have always been a part of the forums. I've left out the adjective digital in front of film.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was teasing. You can tell by the crudely drawn similing face.

mstephan said:

I have used Elinchrom maybe a bit better but also $1450 for 1200 WS.

Click to expand...

I looked at their web pages when I was researching the WL, and didn't see much that said why they were better. Since you have used 'em, can you explain what is better about them? (I don't boubt that they are better, but it would be nice to know why!)

Actually it isn't totally true that I saw nothing better, they did have nicer instruction manuals, and some of thje light mods (like the giant octalight) looked cool. I kind of assume there is more then that though.

Hi all,

Just wanted to update you all. Thanks to all the information here, I decided to get monolights or strobes w/ powerpacks. It seems people using hotlights sooner or later go to monolights or strobes. The D30 is my first camera ever because I decided why screw around wasting money on a point and shoot only to buy a D30 a couple months down the line.

So I'll use that same logic to go for monolights/strobes it appears that aside from $$ there is no regrets with getting monolights instead of hotlights.

Now, I just need to figure out what brand/models to buy

--John

JohnV said:

Hi,

I'm sure there are other people who want to make a home studio set
up or have dreams of getting a studio. I'm trying to get
information on studio lights, but I don't have local sources to
talk to.

So I understand there are 3 big categories of studio lights (by the
way, if anything is wrong, please correct it):

1. hot lights
2. monolights
3. strobes

Pros/Cons of hot lights - Since the light is always on, what you
see in the viewfinder is what you get. No need to guess. However,
the lights get hot, hence the name... My question is how hot? How
about photoflex starlites which claim they run cool. Are they
still too hot? What temperature are we talking about? What if I
crank the AC down like David Letterman in Ed Sullivan Theater?

Pros/Cons of monolights - Well they don't get as hot but you have
to guess about how much light you are getting... Is that it? It
can't be that simple...

Pros/Cons of strobes - beats me...

--J

Click to expand...

stripes said:

Member said:

I have used Elinchrom maybe a bit better but also $1450 for 1200 WS.> > I looked at their web pages when I was researching the WL, and> didn't see much that said why they were better. Since you have> used 'em, can you explain what is better about them? (I don't> boubt that they are better, but it would be nice to know why!)> > Actually it isn't totally true that I saw nothing better, they did> have nicer instruction manuals, and some of thje light mods (like> the giant octalight) looked cool. I kind of assume there is more> then that though.>

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Elinchrom Octalight is awesome, I think they may recycle a bit faster too. But unless you are a professional its not worth the xtra cost. The design and controls are very elegant -- the "Cadillac of Monolights"

So I figure I need at least 2 lights to start off. I know people say that one should buy as much wattage as can be afforded. Should (ideally?) all the lights be high wattage? Must I get two 1,000 watters?

Thanks,
John

mark Stephan said:

stripes said:

mstephan said:

I have used Elinchrom maybe a bit better but also $1450 for 1200 WS.

Click to expand...

I looked at their web pages when I was researching the WL, and
didn't see much that said why they were better. Since you have
used 'em, can you explain what is better about them? (I don't
boubt that they are better, but it would be nice to know why!)

Actually it isn't totally true that I saw nothing better, they did
have nicer instruction manuals, and some of thje light mods (like
the giant octalight) looked cool. I kind of assume there is more
then that though.

Click to expand...

The Elinchrom Octalight is awesome, I think they may recycle a bit
faster too. But unless you are a professional its not worth the
xtra cost. The design and controls are very elegant -- the
"Cadillac of Monolights"

Click to expand...

You guys need to look at:
http://www.alienbees.com

Hi Peter,

I was thinking I'll want to get something with more power. I figure 1000WS is a nice figure.

--John

Peter Gregg said:

You guys need to look at:
http://www.alienbees.com

Click to expand...

JohnV73959 said:

So I figure I need at least 2 lights to start off. I know people say that one should buy as much wattage as can be afforded. Should (ideally?) all the lights be high wattage? Must I get two 1,000 watters?

Click to expand...

Lots of people use one main light, and a fill light at a stop less, maybe even 1.5 or 2 stops less. So you might be able to get by with one light less powerful then the other. If you use the same (or similar) light mods that is.

Well if you get two lights and later decide to get more powerful ones you may be able to move the current ones into the role of hair lights and background lights or even accent lights, depending on how much power you need there. So you may not need your inital lights to be as powerful as you can possiably get.

Without knowing what kind of f stop you want, at what range, and with what light mod it is hard to tell how powerful a monolight (or strobe system) you need. f/16 through a diffusion umbrella needs a whole lot more power then f/22 through a softbox! Those are more the kind of thing you need to think about before you decide how much power you need.

Oh, and watt seconds doesn't tell the whole story, monolights tend to be more efficent then power pack + strobe systems, and some monolights are more efficent then others. Plus the reflectors (and light mods!) make a big difference...

John,

There is a lot you can do with just one light -- I would start there, check

Creative Lighting Techniques, listed on my site http://www.photoshift.com This book give great practical 1 light set up with a home made diffuser (you can use a large softbox too), and also teaches the theory of light. Effects of the size of the light source, the distance to the subject (the pepper example is great), shadow to specular highlights, etc.
Excellent mix of theory illustrated with great real-world examples.

Once you get the basics you can start to get creative.
Have fun , Mark

JohnV said:

Thanks,
John

mark Stephan said:

stripes said:

JohnV73959 said:

I have used Elinchrom maybe a bit better but also $1450 for 1200 WS.

Click to expand...

I looked at their web pages when I was researching the WL, and
didn't see much that said why they were better. Since you have
used 'em, can you explain what is better about them? (I don't
boubt that they are better, but it would be nice to know why!)

Actually it isn't totally true that I saw nothing better, they did
have nicer instruction manuals, and some of thje light mods (like
the giant octalight) looked cool. I kind of assume there is more
then that though.

Click to expand...

The Elinchrom Octalight is awesome, I think they may recycle a bit
faster too. But unless you are a professional its not worth the
xtra cost. The design and controls are very elegant -- the
"Cadillac of Monolights"

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Gee, I dunno, John.

If you're doing this as a home hobby you might want to improvise something yourself. A professional can justify buying all this expensive stuff, but for us home hobbyists...

I made my hotlights using old 300W halogen bulb holders (from a discarded uplighter) stuffed into a square biscuit tin. The lids from two tins were ziptied to the edges of the box to serve as barndoors. I fixed up a household light dimmer at the back to control the wattage. I'll be changing to a 500W halogen bulb soon. The contraption is mounted on a standard tripod using a nut that fits the screw on top of the tripod. Works great. Just finished it last night. Maybe I'll put up some pictures later on.

Of course you could also just get some 500W garden lights...

Earlier on I mounted two old flashguns on two tripods to use as strobes. One was triggered by a PC sync cord, and the other by a slave flash shoe. The light was diffused using a diffusion panel built according to instructions at http://www.lightningmagic.com , using PVC pipes. Of course I did not buy the kit. Instead I got some cheap white cloth and some curtain blockout material, sewed a hem into three edges, and threaded the PVC pipes through. Worked like a charm.

JohnV said:

Thanks,
John

mark Stephan said:

stripes said:

JohnV73959 said:

I have used Elinchrom maybe a bit better but also $1450 for 1200 WS.

Click to expand...

I looked at their web pages when I was researching the WL, and
didn't see much that said why they were better. Since you have
used 'em, can you explain what is better about them? (I don't
boubt that they are better, but it would be nice to know why!)

Actually it isn't totally true that I saw nothing better, they did
have nicer instruction manuals, and some of thje light mods (like
the giant octalight) looked cool. I kind of assume there is more
then that though.

Click to expand...

The Elinchrom Octalight is awesome, I think they may recycle a bit
faster too. But unless you are a professional its not worth the
xtra cost. The design and controls are very elegant -- the
"Cadillac of Monolights"

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Bowens or elin's can't go wrong with them

JohnV said:

Just wanted to update you all. Thanks to all the information here,
I decided to get monolights or strobes w/ powerpacks. It seems
people using hotlights sooner or later go to monolights or strobes.
The D30 is my first camera ever because I decided why screw around
wasting money on a point and shoot only to buy a D30 a couple
months down the line.

So I'll use that same logic to go for monolights/strobes it appears
that aside from $$ there is no regrets with getting monolights
instead of hotlights.

Now, I just need to figure out what brand/models to buy

--John

JohnV said:

Hi,

I'm sure there are other people who want to make a home studio set
up or have dreams of getting a studio. I'm trying to get
information on studio lights, but I don't have local sources to
talk to.

So I understand there are 3 big categories of studio lights (by the
way, if anything is wrong, please correct it):

1. hot lights
2. monolights
3. strobes

Pros/Cons of hot lights - Since the light is always on, what you
see in the viewfinder is what you get. No need to guess. However,
the lights get hot, hence the name... My question is how hot? How
about photoflex starlites which claim they run cool. Are they
still too hot? What temperature are we talking about? What if I
crank the AC down like David Letterman in Ed Sullivan Theater?

Pros/Cons of monolights - Well they don't get as hot but you have
to guess about how much light you are getting... Is that it? It
can't be that simple...

Pros/Cons of strobes - beats me...

--J

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I second that. Elinchrom all the way, Prolinca if you're on a budget.

Something like a Elinchrom Classic "Studio to go Set" is an awesome place to start.

http://www.elinchrom.com/classic.htm

Paul Pope said:

elin's can't go wrong with them

Click to expand...

Hiya

Interesting thread for me. I have been shooting for 18 months or so with hot lights, shot around 130 models. I recently started using a 550ex on camera instead of the hotlights, and was quite disappointed by the inflexibility of it all, so even more recently, I bought some studio flash gear (Visatec, Bron's cheaper range). I have not yet shot any commercial models with them, unfortunately, but I have done a bunch of testing, and they seem very powerful, and flexible.

So, I have a lot of experience with hot lights. The main issues I see include:

o lack of brightness (=DOF issues)

I used four 800w "redheads", with colour correction gel (L201), and white diffusion (L219), all quite close to the model (under four feet, usually). On the D30, with my 28-135mm lens, ISO 400, I shot at around 5.6 at 1/45, maybe 1/60. That's too slow, and way to wide open for my liking. I had real DOF issues (which ironically became a bit of a selling point for my images!). I had similar problems with my 550ex, if i wanted to shoot at f8 or smaller, the 550ex would fire at full power, and take a good five seconds to recharge (unacceptable for my kinda work).

Comparably, mono lights are MUCH brighter (with similar distances and diffusion, I can shoot at f91 (should I want to!) with my new monos. That sounds crazy, but when you start including light modifiers (brollies, softboxes with baffles), ratios, and the possibility of bouncing from reflectors, that take out several stops with each step, I found I am shooting at f22 (if I want) at half power on the strobes. I love that flexibility.

o heat

Really, not a big deal, IMO. I shoot amateur models, they usually have nothing to compare it to. It is a pain in summer with no air cone, tho. As someone said, it's no hotter than sitting in bright sunlight.

The monos are a lot cooler (but still give off a noticeable amount of heat if you're shooting 10 frames a minute (which I do - you may not).

o "quality" of light

I don't mean "high quality" versus "low quality", I mean... the light from hot lights is different to monos. Even when you take into account all the physical aspects, there are things happening that i cannot verbalise (sorry). I am used to hotlights, so in some ways I prefer them... I image that as I use strobes more, I'll start to prefer shots lit by them. But shots lit with hotlight definitely look subtly different. Wethers it's a good or bad thing, I leave as an exercise for the reader. I guess it mostly depends on your goal, huh? (if you're interested, you can see images on my site, lit in various ways - email me for more info on who was lit by what).

o WYSIWYG factor

I have a theatrical (technical, LIGHTING) background, so using hotlights was a natural extension for me. I like the idea of seeing in real time the changes I make to the lights affecting the scene I am lighting. Modelling lights in monos, at 250w are pathetic, you need to use them in a dark room for them to be much use at all. That may be suitable in a proper studio, but not so good in "found locations", with out extensive blackout work.

With hotlights, you can see right away your ratios, fall off, and so on. Not seeing that will frustrate me from now on, but I am sure I'll adapt.

I often shoot video either at the same time, or right after, so hotlights were handy for me for that. I'll now need to set up twice as many stands, lights, and require a lot more power, all in the same amount of room. That will be a pain, but not much I can do about it!

... more to come in next post, something weird's going on with post lengths?
---abbywww.abbywinters.com(images may offend some)

...continued...

...There is a lot of talk about meters here. At the risk of making myself flame bait, they seem to me to be a bit of a toss for studio setups. I am sure every studio shooter worth his salt would feel lost without one, but in my experience so far, I'd rather do a five step bracket, check out the images on a computer screen, make adjustments, and then shoot the damn scene.

The only reason we have flash meters is cos with film you never know until it's processed. With digital, what's the danm point? Anyone shooting in a studio will have a PC handy (heck, a laptop will tell you enough). The three minutes it takes (at most) to get images on screen is NOTHING, and tells you a whole lot more than any meter ever could.

Catchlight, shadows, exposure, framing, models clothing, setting... everything a Polaroid tells you, and more. I spent $280US on a meter (the guy in the shop said I'd need it with the strobes I bought), and so far, I have been less than impressed. It told me stuff that was interesting (for example, that I could shoot at f91, should I want to (not that any lens I have could do that)), and sure it looks techy... but when it comes to the crunch, shooting 800 images each of four models in one day, I doubt I'll put it out of my camera bag.

In my studio setup, I have a 21" TV that I use sometimes to review shots on the fly, just plug the D30's AV out into it. The quality is crappy compared to my 21" Sony trinitron, but it's fine for exposure and cover info.

There's a few threads on dpreview where I have discussed in detail how I use my hotlights (many people missed the point of the discussion, becoming bogged down in the content of my pics, ignoring the actual topic, but there are some very informative posts there). Click on my name at the top of this post for my profile, where there's a list of threads I have posted in. One of them has sample images of the setup i use for hotlights, with a model and stuff.

Hope this helps, there's plenty of great info here in this thread.---abbywww.abbywinters.com(images may offend some)

I find the flexibility of being able to get flash readings, reflected light and most importantly Ambient light readings absolutely invaluable. Thats why I have a light meter. It's not just used in a studio setup. Also a meter will give you reading to 1/10th stop so you can get your exposures spot on.

Abby Winters said:

...continued...

Click to expand...

Abby Winters said:

The only reason we have flash meters is cos with film you never
know until it's processed. With digital, what's the danm point?
Anyone shooting in a studio will have a PC handy (heck, a laptop
will tell you enough). The three minutes it takes (at most) to get
images on screen is NOTHING, and tells you a whole lot more than
any meter ever could.

Click to expand...

Peter Gregg said:

You guys need to look at: http://www.alienbees.com

Click to expand...

I don't like the controls on the back nearly as much as the WL, but at that price it I could buy the remote...

Have you used these? How are they? How do they hold up?

It's a shame they don't have a chart like this though: http://www.white-lightning.com/allspecs.html (they do have a few f-stops for a few lights, but not the full chart).

BabyNSX said:

I find the flexibility of being able to get flash readings, reflected light and most importantly Ambient light readings absolutely invaluable. Thats why I have a light meter. It's not just used in a studio setup. Also a meter will give you reading to 1/10th stop so you can get your exposures spot on.

Click to expand...

That's something I have wondered about. My meter also gives 1/10th of a stop readings, but I'm not sure how useful that is when the camera can only do 1/3rd or 1/2 stops!

Also if you meter your main light and set the exposure to it (ignoring the effect of the fill) as some books say the fill is going to be more then 1/10th of a stop different!

None of that is to say a light/flash meter is useless (it gives me a good starting point so I don't have to take five test shots with the model...only three and all at very close powers).