Colorvision Spyder and Profiler Plus Problem and Costco

Karl Guttag · Dec 19, 2001

I decided it was long past time to try and get everything calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a $400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly. Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10). Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their intenet site mails them too you).

--Karl

Richard M · Dec 19, 2001

Hi carl I also went down this path recently and ended up going back to standard after 2 days of profiling my prints looked worse thatn before I have now just calibrated my monitor and am not game to touch anything else for a while.

Regards

Karlg said:
I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a
$400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the
Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look
print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are
VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a
loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly.
Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be
happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy
theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink
and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my
local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The
prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's
which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print
including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10).
Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on
how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me
to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their
intenet site mails them too you).

--
Karl

jcwphoto · Dec 19, 2001

Karlg said:
What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune).

My feelings exactly. The first pass with the profiler is supposed to get you an approximation that you can fine tune, but from the looks of the first print with the estimation profile, I'm better off either paying for a profiling service or just going back to Epson inks.

I wish I hadn't bought Profiler, though I hear for some people it works great. Just not for me.--jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net

Mark Zarn · Dec 19, 2001

Karl,

I've been using Monaco EZColor 2 for a few months now with really good results. I used the Epson 1280 offer and got the software, a colorimeter "spider", and a 5x7 IT8 target for about what you paid. Using only the demo software that comes with the 1280, without the IT8 target, it's hard to get an idea of what this program is capable of.

I found too that the monitor had a very different appearance than I ever got with Adobe Gamma; somewhat brighter and more cool looking. It's a very quick job to reprofile the monitor evey few weeks, and to create a new paper profile. Sure makes me less apprehensive about trying new (expensive!) kinds of paper.

There is a profile editing feature in version 2, which I've never had to use. I'm not a pro but I make a fair number of prints, and it won't take long for this program to pay for itself in paper and ink savings (I also use a CIS on my printer). For the money, I think it's about the best thing out there right now.

Regards,
Mark

Karlg said:
I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

--'Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas.'

Fred Bopp · Dec 19, 2001

I have to agree with Mark. I have WiziWYG and Colorblind's ProveIt and EZ2 is by far the best. The Chroma 4 colorimeter works with all 3 systems. WiziWYG has problems with Windows ME and XP and their tech support would not even answer me. ProveIt only does monitors, both CRT and LCD. EZ2 does it all and even lets you tweek printer profiles if they need it.

I'll stick with Monaco. Hope they come up with an upgrade to include LCD monitors.
Best, Fred

Mark Zarn said:
I found too that the monitor had a very different appearance than I
ever got with Adobe Gamma; somewhat brighter and more cool looking.
It's a very quick job to reprofile the monitor evey few weeks, and
to create a new paper profile. Sure makes me less apprehensive
about trying new (expensive!) kinds of paper.

There is a profile editing feature in version 2, which I've never
had to use. I'm not a pro but I make a fair number of prints, and
it won't take long for this program to pay for itself in paper and
ink savings (I also use a CIS on my printer). For the money, I
think it's about the best thing out there right now.

Regards,
Mark

Karlg said:

I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

Click to expand...

--
'Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas.'

Bob R · Dec 20, 2001

I also agree with the comments about MonacoEZcolor 2. I have used it to calibrate my monitor, Epson 1270 printer, Epson 2450 scanner and Nikon 8000ed film scanner. Results have been very accurate.

Fred Bopp said:
Mark Zarn said:

I found too that the monitor had a very different appearance than I
ever got with Adobe Gamma; somewhat brighter and more cool looking.
It's a very quick job to reprofile the monitor evey few weeks, and
to create a new paper profile. Sure makes me less apprehensive
about trying new (expensive!) kinds of paper.

There is a profile editing feature in version 2, which I've never
had to use. I'm not a pro but I make a fair number of prints, and
it won't take long for this program to pay for itself in paper and
ink savings (I also use a CIS on my printer). For the money, I
think it's about the best thing out there right now.

Regards,
Mark

Karlg said:

I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

Click to expand...

--
'Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas.'

Click to expand...

Evan51627 · Dec 20, 2001

Hi Karlg,

It happen i almost buy Spyder calibration to calibrate my monitor and epson 1290 printer but it was too expensive for me, so i just calibrate manually with my eyes and some guideline from this really great site:

http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html

trust me, i can produce very beautifull print from my printer now and the color look similar from monitor to printer

regards,

Evan

Karlg said:
I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a
$400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the
Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look
print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are
VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a
loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly.
Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be
happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy
theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink
and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my
local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The
prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's
which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print
including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10).
Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on
how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me
to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their
intenet site mails them too you).

--
Karl

Richard Brown47498 · Dec 20, 2001

I have been using the products for about 3 years now and at first with earlier versions of a calibrator things were amazing. I have been using the spyder for over a year and find it to be great, I will tell you that just calibrating your monitor will not solve your printing troubles.

I have spent many many hours of testing profiles and papers and setting things up to get good results and it was never an easy deal.

Evan said:
It happen i almost buy Spyder calibration to calibrate my monitor
and epson 1290 printer but it was too expensive for me, so i just
calibrate manually with my eyes and some guideline from this really
great site:

http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html

trust me, i can produce very beautifull print from my printer now
and the color look similar from monitor to printer

regards,

Evan

Karlg said:

I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a
$400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the
Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look
print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are
VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a
loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly.
Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be
happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy
theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink
and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my
local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The
prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's
which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print
including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10).
Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on
how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me
to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their
intenet site mails them too you).

--
Karl

Click to expand...

Art Rosch · Dec 20, 2001

Hi folks. Does it make more sense to get a better monitor before investing
in spyder/calibrator? Mine isn't bad, but it's a lower end Viewsonic.
Art

Jeffrey Behr · Dec 20, 2001

Karl, I received my ColorVision suite just last week and have gotten lots better results than you, so for whatever it's worth...

1. Read Ian Lyon's tutorials on this stuff, and especially follow his advice on how to make a neutral, unprocessed scan. Find it at http://www.rgbnet.co.uk/ilyons/epson_scan/epsonscan_1.htm .

2. Pick a review image that has a broad range of colors, etc. to test with. I use the PDI target with the 4 faces across the bottom and the black-to-white gradient on the right.

3. Close Photoshop after each time you build a profile or the new profile may not be available to the print driver. I suppose if you sequentially number the profiles you build, you can always tell if it's the new one you're selecting in the driver, but I use the same name each time.

4. Continue the test-target-printing, scanning, and review ordeal, adjusting the scanner settings each time, until you get a review print that's close. With my Epson 1250 Photo scanner, I never got the histogram of the scanned profiling target to start at black, so my resulting review prints lacked contrast but the colors were about right.

5. Now build another profile using the profile's sliders, adjusting for the errors in the review print. My first use of the sliders, I added 5 units of contrast and cut brightness by 5.

6. Now continue this iterative process of building a new profile and tweeking the sliders until your prints match the image on the monitor.

I'm very pleased with my results. My 24"-wide Epson 7000 blocked the darks to a dark-gray/green blob before profiling. After, it does a very nice job of separating dark shades from blacks, and my prints now have lots of detail in the dark areas.

I know it's REALLY frustrating to have spent the money and time and get poor results. I believe the 2 keys to successful results are a good scan and willingness to tweek the sliders a little at a time.

Good luck to all of you having trouble with their ProfilerPlus sytems.
--I love my D30s!

Jamooche · Dec 20, 2001

I was ready to buy the Colorvision spyder becaue it will work with my Laptop LCD. Now this doesn't seem such a good idea. My screen is a new Dell laptop inspiton 8000, resolution 1400x1050 so it is a top notch LCD. Prints look great on screen now, but are horrible on my epson 1280...any ideas for LCDs...does Monaco work with LCD?

(on a side note, this color matching problem is the only trouble I have had with the D30 so far...only had it one week...)

Thanks--Jamil

Karlg said:
I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a
$400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the
Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look
print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are
VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a
loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly.
Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be
happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy
theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink
and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my
local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The
prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's
which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print
including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10).
Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on
how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me
to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their
intenet site mails them too you).

--
Karl

Darren Joy · Dec 21, 2001

Karlg said:
The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

Yes, I noticed that too. You may try downloading the latest release of the monitor calibration software from the Colorvision website, Photocal is now to version 2.5.1 and Optical is at version 3.5, your license entitles you to the new version ( or so the website says ) if you don't have it in your shipped package. I found the newer software is much better, and produces a better calibration it seems, and it isn't quite so bright.

You can download them from :

http://www.colorcal.com/

Karl Guttag said:
But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

I've used Profiler RGB ( now called Profiler Plus ) to create custom profiles for my Epson 1290, and they're fantastic! FAR better than the standard ones, I can't recommend this system enough.

It is a little tricky, and the instructions aren't especially good, and if you create the profile print in the wrong way, or scan it in the wrong way, the results do indeed look awful, therefore I suggest you follow the intructions on Ian Lyon's excellent website :

http://www.computer-darkroom.co.uk/

They will guide you through the process of a complete colour setup for your photoshop, and creating custom profiles for you printer. I followed Ian's advice for Profiler RGB, and my results are excellent . Ian's site is invaluable for learning about colour calibration, and has plenty of useful tips which you may not have thought of.

I was a little sceptical at first about spending so much money on a thingy to stick to the front of my monitor, and some software which I would effectively use, and then shelve; but I have no regrets, it's been worth every penny.

Powerone · Dec 21, 2001

I agree with Richard that profiling is never easy. It may seem easy from the product information or brochure but the truth is that you will have to spend time and effort to get good profiles. I have been using Colorvision's Spyder for some time and I am satisfied with the results I am getting. Good Luck!

SL

Richard Brown said:
Evan said:

It happen i almost buy Spyder calibration to calibrate my monitor
and epson 1290 printer but it was too expensive for me, so i just
calibrate manually with my eyes and some guideline from this really
great site:

http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html

trust me, i can produce very beautifull print from my printer now
and the color look similar from monitor to printer

regards,

Evan

Karlg said:

I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a
$400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the
Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look
print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are
VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a
loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly.
Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be
happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy
theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink
and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my
local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The
prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's
which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print
including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10).
Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on
how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me
to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their
intenet site mails them too you).

--
Karl

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Fred Miranda · Dec 21, 2001

Hi Jamil,

I have been using the spyder "LCD version" on my Inspiron 8100 (1600x1200) laptop. It works as advertised and now I get accurate colors in all my systems. I have not tried the Profiler Plus though.
I prefer tweaking the images manually and using the Epson ICCs.

There is a lot of info at Ian’s Computer Darkroom site on how to adjust your images for print.
http://www.computer-darkroom.co.uk/

Best,
Fred Miranda

Jamil Abbasy said:
(on a side note, this color matching problem is the only trouble I
have had with the D30 so far...only had it one week...)

Thanks--Jamil

Karlg said:

I decided it was long past time to try and get everything
calibrated in my system.

The Spyder Calibration of the montor seemed to go OK. The Screen
certainly seems different (brighter) than it was before.

But the printer calibration with the ProfilerPlus seems to be a big
problem and the directions are scanty even in the "full" manual. I
went through their proceedure and the results were horrible. The
directions are so poor that it is hard to figure out what I was
doing wrong. I called Technical support during their business
hours and got "George's" answering machine (I guess Tech support is
hard to get a hold of the week before XMAS).

What gets me is that the direction have you eyeballing things in
the end to "fine tune" the print (I wish I could get close enough
that all I had to do was fine tune). One would think than in a
$400 package they would send a calibration chart to calibrate the
Scanner, but it looks like you are just suppost to print/look
print/look until you like what you see. The directions/manual are
VERY scant as to what "PREVIEW" does and what you are suppose to do.

Anyway $400 and 2 hours later my prints look horrible and I am at a
loss to figure out how to fix it. Hopefully George is in tomorrow.

It gets me how hard it is to get the printer calibrated correctly.
Epson's ICMs come out too dark and slightly magenta (I would be
happy if I could just tweak theirs). If I was a conspiracy
theorist, I would think it a plot by Epson to get you to waste ink
and paper.

On the good side. I took a test CD with pictures on it down to my
local Costco that has the Fuji Digital printing system. The
prints look very good and only cost 20 cents a piece for 4x6's
which I figure about half of what the Epson 1270 costs to print
including ink and paper (49 cents for a 5x7 and $1.99 for an 8x10).
Their turn around ranges from 1 to 3 hours to 24 hours depending on
how busy they are they say. Now all they need to do is allow me
to upload them to the store so I only have to make one trip (their
intenet site mails them too you).

--
Karl

Click to expand...

--Fred Mirandawww.fredmiranda.com

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Colorvision Spyder and Profiler Plus Problem and Costco

Karl Guttag

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