How did you learn to do post processing?

You will find that you will learn the basics quite quickly, then it's just a matter of 'tweaking' your skills over time. I started with Paint Shop Pro, which is quite user friendly. Since there were also a lot of other users here, it was easy to get help when I needed it.

The most important thing you can do, though, is try to get your shots right while you are shooting them. If you get exposure and focus the way you want, all you will need to learn is cropping and sharpening. The fancy stuff can come later.

Thanks for the compliment on my homepage, I created the header in Photoshop with layers, but I am just now learning how to do that kind of thing.
--
Theresa K
http://theresak.smugmug.com/

photophile said:

"....I never bother reading instructions manuals or diving into the
Help menu,,,"

Click to expand...

Susan, I'm not that good at processing but have spent the last four years trying! I first tried PS Elements but at the time, found PaintShopPro easier to use with the same features. I've gone from PSP Ver 3 up to the current PSP 10 and am quite happy with it. I've got PhotoShop CS but still find PSP does everything and the user interface is more to my liking. I also use Nikon Capture for converting and doing basic editing on my D70 RAW shots.

I still haven't read any of the manuals but just learned by punching all the buttons to see what they would do and then settle on what seems to work. Good ole Trial & Error! Of course, I've gotten lots of instruction and tips from the great members here. I wish I'd had a good instructor to teach me first hand but have had to rely on myself and the forum.

Lucy gave you some great tips for starting out. It is more difficult, but I do recommend using PhotoShop...it's the industry standard and so many photographers speak PS and there's lots more actions and information available for that program. Of course, it's much, much pricier than PSP!!

Good luck with your learning adventure!

Best regards,

****
--
http://www.pbase.com/richardr
D70&C-2100UZ&C-5050Z&C-7000Z&C-3000Z

Susan G said:

Hi there,
Well, I'm going to try to download the Corel Paint Shop 10 trial
version and see what happens.

Click to expand...

That was the program I learned on, I found it to be very powerful and yet quite intuitive. If you struggle with something, go to 'help' and it's actually written in English! We can also give you step by step directions here if you are having a problem. Although I don't use it much, I still have PSP installed on my computer, it's red-eye correction tool is better than Photoshop's, particularly for animals.
--
Theresa K
http://theresak.smugmug.com/

Susan,

I'm running about that ratio between stumbling into a way to accomplish something and the other requiring me to study.

The trouble is that when I consider how many combinations of tools there are in PhotoShop I realize there isn't enough time left to fumble my way through PS 2 much less anything else. If I actually studied it probably wouldn't be much different.

"Ask for directions, nope, I'm not lost again, never have been before! Yeah, right, LOL!

Best,

--
John,

'Lord help me to be the man my labrador thought I was'

and it was a lot of trial and error. Learned heaps from here, and am still learning, but have graduated to PS-CS2. Thanks for the complimentary reference - I'm honored. I also went to our local library, did a search of their system for Adobe photoshop, and got several books on the subject with some good tips in them. I love messing around with photoshop - I'm finding new things to try all the time. I actually wonder if anyone really knows how to use all of it's features. I fought myself with learning how to use layers and masks, but now that I know how, almost never do anything in photoshop without it being on a layer. I also found lots of information by lurking in the Retouching forum. It doesn't happen overnight, tho, it's a complex program - I'm on year 2 and still consider myself a photoshop newby.
--
Judy
FCAS member #125
UZI & C-770
http://www.pbase.com/shebalee928/jjs_gallery

At first I had real trouble. I had PSP and did some basic things, but was just starting to dig deeper when I decided to go the Photoshop route. The layers really threw me a first, and layers ARE the power of Photoshop.

I've mentioned it before on this forum, but I borrowed David Cross's Photoshop Video series from my local library. It was for Photoshop 6 but the concepts were all the same for what I needed. Bingo, seeing it on my TV on all things did the trick. It has snowballed from there. I have checked out many, many books, and even bought some. I try to grab something new from each one.

There are a few things that can get a bit confusing. Some of the masking techniques can get a bit complicated. And of course once you get about ten layers, things can get messy. (I sometimes forget to name them).

Now I switch heads on people with relative ease, in fact many times it is my relatives: ) I hope you get past those first hurdles and can really begin to enjoy this addicitive program.

Just used it to put together this image. Tough to use your flash and still capture a firework. But to us sitting behind the tape, this is what it looked like, or so we visualized.



Perry
--

I appreciate what you're saying!!
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

about the red-eye correction being better in Paint shop. I had done a little on a dog photo in as a gift but it still didn't quite look the way I wanted, but I went ahead with it anyway -- that was on the trial version of PSE4.

I did download Paint shop yesterday and was playing a bit -- like AH, though, I find the Picasa does the job of straightening and even cropping, etc. pretty easily. The cloning tool is nice though and I like the framing -- trying to resave the photos as jpegs though, I ran into little error messages saying they would have to "merge" with something. Uh oh! So they wound up being saved in another format.

It's fun though!

Thanks again,
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

Ah ha! your photo attached and comment about changing relatives' heads made me understand (finally) what this word "layer" is all about. Now for masking -- ?

Funny how concrete examples and watching what someone else is doing seems to be my way of learning. (And I used to be a book learner).

I like the idea of trying to find some videos at the library -- don't know if that sort of thing exists here but it's worth a try.

Thanks for your encouragement -- yes, addiction seems to be the proper word. I'd much rather be doing this than doing the database work I'm supposed to be doing at this computer!

Bye for now,
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

except the only trouble is I try so many buttons that it's hard to remember what I did that actually got results I like and might want to repeat. Ha ha -- the old short term memory ain't what it used to be!! :->

Thanks for your reassurance!!
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

I can see it's going to be a long road. I hope I have the patience -- I think maybe my eye isn't very discriminating -- sometimes I have trouble seeing the differences between pictures others post here asking which one is better etc. One thing I don't want is to turn what so far has been fun into something that turns into an obsession for perfection because then I'll probably put the camera away. I don't know -- maybe I'm just feeling that way this morning.

Thanks for your reassurance that the T&E has so many adherents -- I still can't access stuff in the Olympus reference manual for my camera!!

Best,
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

--That's a really good question. I tried..by mostly trial and error at first. Then when I realized I wasn't learning anything much. I started reading articles on the net written by people who knew. I'd print them out...and keep the stuff I used a lot in a folder (a real paper one as opposed to digital . It's a lot less complicated, to me, if you kind of decide what you want to do...then find out how to do it...and save the "how" somewhere. Most of us only use certain aspects of programs like Paint Shop, Photo Impact, or Photoshop. It seems so much easier to learn the things we want to accomplish in them, than trying to learn the whole program...especially at first.
http://www.pbase.com/madlights

'The bravest person in the world was the first person to milk a cow, and drink what came out' - Steve Martin

about one billion years ago.

Learned by trial and error, but a simple gaussian blur could easily take 2-3 hours on a huge (800x600pixels) image, so we were all quite discriminating on what to try back then=)

I had the opportunity to learn while the program developed so it has never been that overwhelming.

It was a bit disturbing when PS4.0 arrived though with something new called "layers". That took awhile to get used to, and some of us resited as long as we could

I hope you'll find the time and energy to learn what you need, just remember that as a photographer you really don't need to know everything in the program. I believe I know about half of what's in there, and I manage fine, both for photography, post process and pre-press.
Don't really know what the other stuff's good for

Cheers
--
Anders

Some of my pictures can be seen at;
http://teamexcalibur.se/US/usindex.html

event photography and photo journalism

Because I consider myself so new to PP, I wanted to see what others had to say first. Some quick thoughts:

1) All of the bigger PP programs are difficult to master, but mastery isn't the issue. You already are creating images that please you and others. You don't need mastery of PP to be happy and effective. If you work at it actively the rest of your life, there will still be new things to learn and master. Think of that as wonderful, not a problem.

2) It probably makes sense to start with PSE, the junior version of the program most people use. It is easier to get tips from others if you are looking at the same screen. No, the Adobe products are not very intuitive, but there is a lot to be said for using the standard product.

3) You sound like a person with good sense. Don't worry about getting too involved with this part of digital photography. If the intricacies of PP dont please you, you won't get hung up on them.

4) You'll be surprised at how much fun it can be to do some of this stuff. Every day when I walk my dog in a dog park, our eyes are offended by a the sight of a big industrial smokestack. When I worked up my photo of that scene last year, I cloned out that stack, and it felt almost as good as if I'd dynamited the thing!
--
Steve

Glad you decided not to lurk anymore and to add your comments -- you have a very reassuring tone and a common sense attitude that I really appreciate, too.

Love what you did to the smokestack -- did you post that picture, before and after? would be fun to see.

Thanks for your comments and encouragement,
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

It's so good to hear from someone so accomplished as you and oh, so reassuring, to boot! Thank you for adding to this post -- I'm sure others appreciate it, too.

I really like what you've written on your website homepage (not to mention the photographs!) but words have always been important to me as things that also need proper crafting, too. Yours set a really welcoming tone that reassures the visitor of your skill and insight as a photographer.

Thank you again for your suggestions and comments,
Best,
Susan
--



http://www.pbase.com/susan_1016

photophile said:

....I never bother reading instructions manuals or diving into the
Help menu - until I have clicked so many times, I have no idea what
I have done! ;-)) (come on guys - back me up here!!)

Click to expand...

I only paid like a gazillion dollars for the software, so I didn't get a manual.

Not that I would ever disgrace myself being cought reading it, it would be like reading a map or checking facts before entering a discussion

photophile said:

Picasa2 is very much underrrated for what it is - free downloadble
software that helps you organise your photo albums. Its also useful
for minor PP - especially its straightening and cropping tools -
which are light-years ahead of more sophiticated software in terms
of user-friendliness.

Click to expand...

Yes but come on, what about bragging rights?

photophile said:

At the moment, I have PaintShop Pro 10 - whch I find remarkably
easy to use since all its functions follow the same set of rules -
in other words it takes you to a side-window and as you fiddle
around with the slide toggles, you can see what its doing to the
picture. After a bit of time, you get a very good feel for what is
"just right" - especially after you print off one or two examples.

I find the perspective distorsion correction tool and selective
highlight/shadow correction to be the most useful tools in PS-10. I
also use the noise removal function from time to time.

I do RAW development in RawShooter (the full version - which wasn't
that expensive). Picasa2 doesn't recognise ORF files at the moment,
but bizarrely, its perfectly happy with TIFF!

Anyway, don't give up - persevere and you'll soon get the hang of
it - like evryone else! ;-))

Click to expand...

Totally agreed=)

--
Anders

Some of my pictures can be seen at;
http://teamexcalibur.se/US/usindex.html

event photography and photo journalism

photophile said:

Picasa2 doesn't recognise ORF files at the moment,

Click to expand...

I find that Picasa2 does recognize ORF file like JPEG or TIFF (thumbnails, full view or editing). IIRC, the Google download page mentions about its raw read capability.

But what I found a bit strange (may be a bug?) was that in exif shown by Picasa2 the exposure mode is always shown as shutter priority regardless of the actual mode. Has anyone noticed this?

Thanx
D_Bug.

(I'm still learning, and would call myself a biginner).

I used the trial version of Picture Wondows, and found it to be VERY easy to use and to learn about the basic factors involved in PP. It also has a great set of tutorials that help one learn many things with examples.

Currently I use GIMP. Again, you will find many tutorials on the GIMP website, and I think it is quite good for free. Reading other tutorials (e.g. PS tutorials) one can translate them to equivalent steps in GIMP, and can do most things.

Currently I use GIMP for extended editing and Picasa2 for archiving, basic touch up, slideshow or displaying to friends/family, etc.

There are a lot of things in terms of PP that one can learn and master. But here is a brief overview on the basics (PP masters please correct any mistakes):

As I understand, the four basic attributes of a digital photograph are: Color, sharpness, detail and noise (not necessarily in that order).

Color is controlled in camera by WB settings, and to some extent by exposure settings (e.g. exposure can affect saturation). In PP color can be adjusted by the color balance tools. But detecting any color imbalance itself will atke some practice.

Sharpness is controlled in camera by focus or the sharpening methods such as USM in PP.

Details (and contrast, tonality, etc.) can skillfully be retained by exposing right in camera, as well as playing with levels/curves/brightness/contrast settings. Histograms are very useful here.

Noise is a subject by itself, it seems. Different cameras do different degrees of noise reduction. One can use specialized noise reduction programs (e.g. Noiseware is free, IIRC), or by appropriately applying the blurring techniques. I use 'selective Gausian blur' in GIMP for mild noise removal.

There are other techniques such as blending, contrast masking, etc. But what I included above I believe are very basic. There are proper sequences in which to go about correcting the above four, and one probably influences the other, and I havent quite understood them well myself. So I'll leave that for the more experienced people here.

Hope that helps.
D_Bug.

Susan G said:

did you guys take a course to learn to use
Photo Shop or just trial and error on your own?

Click to expand...

Susan,

Since I'm no expert, I'm not the one to ask, or respond. But, I'll offer a few thoughts anyway.

I inherited a computer with Coral installed on it and started out with that. I was living on my ranch and had no manual, and nobody to ask. So, I just dove in, without knowing anything, and I mean anything. But, I knew what crop was, and contrast, brightness, saturation, sharpness and other basic photographic concepts were. And, importunately, I had a good idea about how I wanted my photographs to look. So it was pretty easy to trial and error my through the basics, which all I need to use most of the time.

Since everything I read, and everybody I talked to, were speaking Photoshop, I started using Photoshop Elements 2, and found it superior to what I was using in Corral. I kept reading magazines and even bought a couple of those big, thick Photoshop "how to" books. But, I found that they printed those thick manuals on a paper that was impregnated with a sleep-inducing chemical.

I believe that the first and most important thing about post processing is to know what you want a photo to look like, and what is wrong with the way it looks. Then figure out what needs to be done to make it look like that. To that end, I don't know anything about the vast majority of Photoshop. But, I know quite a bit about how to tweak a photograph to make it look like I want it to look -- which is all I need or want to know. I'm not the least bit interested in "making" a photo by building it using Photoshop's vast graphic arts techniques. But, that's just me.

Like most of us, I'm still learning. But, I only learn what I need to know to accomplish some specific objective(s) or solve a problem at the time. To do that, I'll look at the "big books," ask, search tutorials, and search OTF and the Retouching Forum. For the type of photography I am interested in, I don't need to be a Photoshop expert. All I need to know is how to make photographs look like I want them to look.

A very wise and famous photographer once told me, "John, learn everything you can about the technical aspects of photography -- then forget it as quick as you can." One does need to know what's possible in order to know how to translate their vision into the proper photograph. But, those technical things should not get in the way of one's vision.

So, it depends on what you want to do. But, no matter what that is, just take it one step at a time. Use whatever learning tool(s) you learn best with -- books, tutorials, or whatever. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll learn what you want to know. One thing builds on another. And like everything else, post processing seems overwhelming at first, but it gets easier as you go. Trust me.

And remember you may need to learn only a very few things to accomplish your current objectives. Then you can add to your skills as you go. I think that's about what everybody does.

--John C.