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Important update for 3600 HS(D) owners

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Gordon Chau65853

Gordon Chau65853

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Gordon Chau said:
To all those who participated in this old thread two months ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=1752649

Just a note to alert 3600 owners who had problems with bounce flash
metering about a fix of the problem, thanks to BOLD work by Bryan
and tc (Crowning). I converted mine and can confirm its efficacy.
Instruction on:

http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/3600hs_fix.html

Gordon Chau
Click to expand...
Works Great! Thanks to all who found and posted this fix. I used the 'just cut the wire' fix. From gross overexposure in the bounce mode or when using a Lumiquest bounce card to dead on exposure in both situations.
 
Gordon Chau said:
Just a note to alert 3600 owners who had problems with bounce flash
metering about a fix of the problem, thanks to BOLD work by Bryan
and tc (Crowning). I converted mine and can confirm its efficacy.
Instruction on:
Click to expand...
I wonder where Minolta stand legally on this.

The D7 is advertised as working with the 3600HS but it turns
out it doesn't. If you 'correct' the problem then the warranty
on the 3600HS is invalid. If you don't 'correct' the problem I think
there's a case for returning both the 3600HS and the D7 to
Minolta unless they an 'fix' the problem. (And a possible 'fix'
might be supplying a rebate against a 5600HS for D7 owners).

I bought my D7 with the expectation that it would function
correctly with Minolta accessories and while I was willing to
accept that my 3500xi might not function 100% with the
camera I find it less than acceptable that there are trivially
stupid problems with the 3600HS and that even if you buy
a 5600HS you pay the extra money and get very few of the
extra features functional in return.

-----------------Andrew.
 
Andrew Cruickshank said:
I wonder where Minolta stand legally on this.

The D7 is advertised as working with the 3600HS but it turns
out it doesn't. If you 'correct' the problem then the warranty
on the 3600HS is invalid. If you don't 'correct' the problem I think
there's a case for returning both the 3600HS and the D7 to
Minolta unless they an 'fix' the problem. (And a possible 'fix'
might be supplying a rebate against a 5600HS for D7 owners).

I bought my D7 with the expectation that it would function
correctly with Minolta accessories and while I was willing to
accept that my 3500xi might not function 100% with the
camera I find it less than acceptable that there are trivially
stupid problems with the 3600HS and that even if you buy
a 5600HS you pay the extra money and get very few of the
extra features functional in return.

--
---------------
Andrew.
Click to expand...
I don't think that Minolta cares. they obviously don't care about fixing the other bugs that the camera has with a firmware upgrade, even though the camera has been for sale for 6 months. It could be that the local operations are able to understand the problems, and would help if they could, but are unable to communicate effectively with the home company. They clearly have no idea how annoying users find this kind of behaviour.

The problem with the 3600 is a firmware problem with the camera and not the flash for the following reasons.

1) Disabling the position sensor lets the flash work. The camera is paying attention to the information from the sensor and making a bad exposure decision.

2) With the sensor enabled, the camera can still control the flash with EV compenstation, so it isn't some hardware problem with the flash.

As you say, the flash is clearly sold as compatible with the camera, but isn't. Actually, this is not the only accessory which is shown on the Minolta web site as being compatible which is not.

Bryan
 
Bryan Biggers said:
I don't think that Minolta cares. they obviously don't care about
fixing the other bugs that the camera has with a firmware upgrade,
even though the camera has been for sale for 6 months.
Click to expand...
I agree with Bryan and here are some of my thoughts, too. I have bought the D7. Many of us (almost everyone in this forum) has bought the D7. More and more people are buying the D7 continuously. We all suggest people should buy the D7 because it is a great camera. So, more people go and buy the D7.

So, why should MINOLTA care? Their camera is selling more and more and more and more! For them, this shows that people are happy with the D7 and this is why they buy it. So, why should they do anything at all about it. "Yes, there are faults with the D7, but why should we give a sh*t? Let people keep buying!",is what MINOLTA think.

Don't tell me that you think MINOLTA are not aware of what's happening in the market. We are! And it is not even our business. It is just a hobby for us. And do not give me the customer's satisfaction bullsh*t.

The D7 is no doubt a very good camera, but why doesn't MINOLTA want to keep it this way? As we (users) play with out cameras more and more we discover more and more flows. Why doesn't MINOLTA want to do anything about it?

But, oh, I forgot. We have already paid for the camera!!!! So what is there to gain for MINOLTA?

--Pablettowww.pbase.com/pettas(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)Last update 14 December 2001
 
Bryan Biggers said:
Andrew Cruickshank said:
I wonder where Minolta stand legally on this.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Bryan Biggers said:
As you say, the flash is clearly sold as compatible with the
camera, but isn't. Actually, this is not the only accessory which
is shown on the Minolta web site as being compatible which is not.
Click to expand...
So that tends to raise the question as to where Minolta
stand legally on this. I think my point is that if the camera
is bought by somebody in the UK (I have no idea about the
US or other regions) and they intend to use it with a Minolta
flashgun then this gets into the 'fitness for purpose' territory
that gives the customer some right of redress and presumably
puts Minolta (or more specifically the retailers who actually have
the direct exposure) into a rather sticky position under the
Sale of Goods act.

I'm extremely annoyed by these problems -- glad I haven't
bought a 3600HS yet -- but that was my original intention and
a major attraction of the D7 was the supposed compatibility
with Dynax flash accessories.
-----------------Andrew.
 
Andrew Cruickshank said:
So that tends to raise the question as to where Minolta
stand legally on this. I think my point is that if the camera
is bought by somebody in the UK (I have no idea about the
US or other regions) and they intend to use it with a Minolta
flashgun then this gets into the 'fitness for purpose' territory
that gives the customer some right of redress and presumably
puts Minolta (or more specifically the retailers who actually have
the direct exposure) into a rather sticky position under the
Sale of Goods act.

I'm extremely annoyed by these problems -- glad I haven't
bought a 3600HS yet -- but that was my original intention and
a major attraction of the D7 was the supposed compatibility
with Dynax flash accessories.

--
---------------
Andrew.
Click to expand...
Andrew, I take it you are in the UK. So, what you are saying is we should start complaining and see if we can get our 5600HS(D) for less money? Hmmmm, good idea! Currently, I am having a dispute with Carphone Warehouse, so I have made lots of contacts on the legal side. I will try and find out what may happen. The 5600 sells for about GBP300.00 in the UK and I am not willing to pay this amount of money for a flash that will do the work that a GBP50.00 on a much simpler camera than the D7.

I can accept the fact that the 5600 costs so much because it has all these "extras". It has many functions, it is very powerful. But why should I pay for those extras they are not supposed to be "expoloited" by my camera? It is like buying a Ferrari and not being able to ware any tyres other than bicycle wheels. Get the meaning? ;-)

--Pablettowww.pbase.com/pettas(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)Last update 14 December 2001
 
What happens with use of the 3600HS on my Maxxum cameras if I use this "cut the wire" fix?...Bob
Don said:
Gordon Chau said:
To all those who participated in this old thread two months ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=1752649

Just a note to alert 3600 owners who had problems with bounce flash
metering about a fix of the problem, thanks to BOLD work by Bryan
and tc (Crowning). I converted mine and can confirm its efficacy.
Instruction on:

http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/3600hs_fix.html

Gordon Chau
Click to expand...
Works Great! Thanks to all who found and posted this fix. I used
the 'just cut the wire' fix. From gross overexposure in the bounce
mode or when using a Lumiquest bounce card to dead on exposure in
both situations.
Click to expand...
--Robert Jones
 
I don't know how the Maxxum reacts if the flash is in bounced position (if it uses this information at all!).

The worst thing would be that the camera thinks the flash is NOT bounced and computes the exposure for the normal flash position so the picture will be underexposed.

If you're really concerned about this use my 'unplug the connectors' solution (see Bryans page for more info) and put some wire and a small switch between connector and flash. Place the switch outside the flash, so you can toggle between the two modes.
If you don't know HOW to add this switch simply don't do it.
tc
Robert Jones said:
What happens with use of the 3600HS on my Maxxum cameras if I use> this "cut the wire" fix?...Bob> > Don wrote:> > Gordon Chau wrote:> > > To all those who participated in this old thread two months ago:> > > > > > http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=1752649 > > > > > > Just a note to alert 3600 owners who had problems with bounce flash> > > metering about a fix of the problem, thanks to BOLD work by Bryan> > > and tc (Crowning). I converted mine and can confirm its efficacy.> > > Instruction on:> > > > > > http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/3600hs_fix.html > > > > > > Gordon Chau> > > > > Works Great! Thanks to all who found and posted this fix. I used> > the 'just cut the wire' fix. From gross overexposure in the bounce> > mode or when using a Lumiquest bounce card to dead on exposure in> > both situations.> > --> Robert Jones
Click to expand...
 
Any mention if it is a software or hardware fix? And if hardware fix, it is only for new flash units or can it be applied to existing units?
Tony
Stuart Halliday said:
I've just gotten off the phone with UK Minolta technical support
and was told there is to be a fix soon for the 5600/3600 flash gun
bounce bug.

--
Minolta Dimage 7 Owner
Click to expand...
--Tony
 
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