proudfather
Senior Member
just kidding 
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Why Nikon?
- Thread starter Bmark
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PismoBeach
Senior Member
I said both companies do incremental updates. I never said canon didn't make more, they do make more and more predictable cycle. Some people like that, some don't. I really feel sorry for you that you get so defensive about Nikon. I would seek professional help from either an institution or your Nikon clergy for that. BTW, you really showed your brand snobbery in the other thread, I hope you are proud of yourself for that "you are a step below comment".
LPTA
Leading Member
big upgrades like
D2h to D2hs
D70 to D70s
D2X to D2Xs ?
it lookes to me like Nikon did more minor upgrades than Canon...lol
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Andrew
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D2h to D2hs
D70 to D70s
D2X to D2Xs ?
it lookes to me like Nikon did more minor upgrades than Canon...lol
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Andrew
http://lpta.smugmug.com/
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Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
I am not getting defensive about Nikon at all. I am defending facts that Canon has traditionally done more incremental upgrades that I personally did not like. It is you who is trying to argue about it. Again, I clearly said, the choice was clear to me. I never said, that you or anyone else should use the same attribute for the decision.
You are clearly breaking forum posting rules by personally attacking with non-photographic topic. One more such personal attach, I will not refrain from reporting this to the forum administrators.
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Speed is significant and interesting but accuracy is downright fascinating
http://www.pbase.com/pradipta
Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
You are right, but you also got to realize that when D70s was released most of the upgrades were made available for D70 owners via firmware upgrades. You can't quite say the same thing about 30D. Can you? Same applies to D2Xs - most of the upgrades will be made available via firmware upgrade. Was it done for 1DMkII when 1DMkIIN was released?
If you followed Nikon product release history, most of hardware changes in these incremental models (with the exception of D2Hs) were driven by standardization of parts like LCD screen thereby potentially streamlining manufacturing processes. While at the same time, additional features were made available to older models via firmware upgrade.
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Speed is significant and interesting but accuracy is downright fascinating
http://www.pbase.com/pradipta
PismoBeach
Senior Member
Wait, you do this post but want to report me? Nice. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=19070301
As for Nikon and Canon updates, both do small increments. No one argued that. The firmware update is a separate argument you started after someone else, not me, pointed out your previous statement was inaccurate.
As for Nikon and Canon updates, both do small increments. No one argued that. The firmware update is a separate argument you started after someone else, not me, pointed out your previous statement was inaccurate.
BishopVC
Forum Enthusiast
In general I agree with the posters that state you'll be fine regardless which way you go. I went through the same decision making process you're going through now about six months ago. As one likes to make a decision based upon something other than a coin flip I did put some thought into my choice so here's a post of mine from a few months ago outlining my thought process on this question:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=17242861
Still very happy with my choice, btw, even though the 20D replacement (not announced at the time of my decision) does have a spot meter. No regrets whatsoever.
Regards,
Bishop
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=17242861
Still very happy with my choice, btw, even though the 20D replacement (not announced at the time of my decision) does have a spot meter. No regrets whatsoever.
Regards,
Bishop
LPTA
Leading Member
I'm not the one who started saying Canon only do minor upgrades, you did remember? and now you're changing the firmware stories? so what is your point exactly? is it about the "minor upgrade" or is it about "free firmware upgrade"?
What Nikon did with free firmware release is very good customer service and I wish Canon could do the same thing for the 300D's.
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Andrew
http://lpta.smugmug.com/
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What Nikon did with free firmware release is very good customer service and I wish Canon could do the same thing for the 300D's.
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Andrew
http://lpta.smugmug.com/
Smugmug coupon code:
Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
It is both. And you will have to consider both.
All major upgrades had significantly better functionality that were head and shoulders above the model it replaced (like D2X over D1X) and whenever there was a minor release, most of the features were made available via firmware upgrades (like D70s over D70).
They go hand in hand.
As I said before, for me, the main criteria for continuing with Nikon was that I liked this strategy.
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Speed is significant and interesting but accuracy is downright fascinating
http://www.pbase.com/pradipta
Pradipta Dutta
Veteran Member
They are very related.
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Speed is significant and interesting but accuracy is downright fascinating
http://www.pbase.com/pradipta
jhanzel
Member
Mark,
Glad you "felt" the camera.
In addition to all the comments about the reason to keep a "family" of cameras and lenses, I find that the D200 has a great weight balance for easy point-and-shot, the hand grip is secure, and the case is protected from, although not impervious, to the odd events of nature when I'm shooting (my children's) outdor sports.
I do always keep the strap wrapped around right arm just in case.
Best,
John
Glad you "felt" the camera.
In addition to all the comments about the reason to keep a "family" of cameras and lenses, I find that the D200 has a great weight balance for easy point-and-shot, the hand grip is secure, and the case is protected from, although not impervious, to the odd events of nature when I'm shooting (my children's) outdor sports.
I do always keep the strap wrapped around right arm just in case.
Best,
John
LPTA
Leading Member
Good for you
Since Nikon has about 20s% of the market share, they have to start somewhere to get their market share back because Nikon image quality and overpriced lens system just not helping them.
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Andrew
http://lpta.smugmug.com/
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Since Nikon has about 20s% of the market share, they have to start somewhere to get their market share back because Nikon image quality and overpriced lens system just not helping them.
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Andrew
http://lpta.smugmug.com/
Smugmug coupon code:
Daniel Bliss
Senior Member
Nikon will get you closer to that Broncolor rig for a lot less money in a truly portable manner with a lot of control over the light.
Canon -- well, I can't recall them ever beating Nikon to market with a flash feature. I'm sure I've missed something. But flash was the reason I went Nikon back in the early 1990s and subsequently resisted powerful temptations to switch. Canon is actually not too far behind Nikon; but Nikon has the edge with slightly faster synchronization speeds on some models, earlier implementation of key features, an edge on metering and so on. The D50 and D70's 1/500 synchronisation is unique these days in small format digital. The flash system with Nikon is tremendously usable and easy to learn, and the SB800, at the same actual dollar price as the SB24 was 15 years ago but with tremendously more capability and a nice set of accessories that the older units conspicuously lacked, is as good a value in a flash unit as I can think of.
PS. As for the glass, you have to take your pick. I think Nikon takes better care of the photographer needing cheaper/smaller/lighter lenses -- pretty well everything up to about $700 or so. Both are very close in the pro glass category with Canon having an edge on features (e.g. more VR lenses)
Canon -- well, I can't recall them ever beating Nikon to market with a flash feature. I'm sure I've missed something. But flash was the reason I went Nikon back in the early 1990s and subsequently resisted powerful temptations to switch. Canon is actually not too far behind Nikon; but Nikon has the edge with slightly faster synchronization speeds on some models, earlier implementation of key features, an edge on metering and so on. The D50 and D70's 1/500 synchronisation is unique these days in small format digital. The flash system with Nikon is tremendously usable and easy to learn, and the SB800, at the same actual dollar price as the SB24 was 15 years ago but with tremendously more capability and a nice set of accessories that the older units conspicuously lacked, is as good a value in a flash unit as I can think of.
PS. As for the glass, you have to take your pick. I think Nikon takes better care of the photographer needing cheaper/smaller/lighter lenses -- pretty well everything up to about $700 or so. Both are very close in the pro glass category with Canon having an edge on features (e.g. more VR lenses)
Andrew64673
Senior Member
after a breif look through this thread I cant beleive the answers people give. "you should get canon", " I would get canon if I had my time over", (ok so thats just an honest opinion I suppose) "the camera makes no difference, its the photographer..."
Yes it is the photographer that does it and a skilled photog could get what he wanted out of either buit the question is "why did you pick nikon?"
My answers
The bodies: they are all comfortable, ergonomic, intuitive, feel like they were made for photographers and make you want to pick them up and take photos. Canon has never made anything that made me want to pick up and use.
The lenses: a great range of great lenses, some good value ones as well as some I would not get and to top it off some wonderfull old lenses going back to the 60's
the sensors: I like the way the photos look, they have a natural real organic lifelike look. I am sure if I had canons I could get what I needed, but from my experience their images lack a little life and even look a bit digital IMO, but this is a little thing that workflow may solve I think. The canon high iso superiority is overstated and overrated IMO. Canon did have a high res advantage between the 1ds and the d2x, but that is pretty much a non issue now.
If I could get a clean swap all my n for c ( like a 1ds2 for my d2x, a 1d2 for my d1x, a 20d for my d100 and lenses) I would not do it. I like using my nikons. Its a personal thing, getting either would not be a bad choice, I say try both and get what feels right for you.
Yes it is the photographer that does it and a skilled photog could get what he wanted out of either buit the question is "why did you pick nikon?"
My answers
The bodies: they are all comfortable, ergonomic, intuitive, feel like they were made for photographers and make you want to pick them up and take photos. Canon has never made anything that made me want to pick up and use.
The lenses: a great range of great lenses, some good value ones as well as some I would not get and to top it off some wonderfull old lenses going back to the 60's
the sensors: I like the way the photos look, they have a natural real organic lifelike look. I am sure if I had canons I could get what I needed, but from my experience their images lack a little life and even look a bit digital IMO, but this is a little thing that workflow may solve I think. The canon high iso superiority is overstated and overrated IMO. Canon did have a high res advantage between the 1ds and the d2x, but that is pretty much a non issue now.
If I could get a clean swap all my n for c ( like a 1ds2 for my d2x, a 1d2 for my d1x, a 20d for my d100 and lenses) I would not do it. I like using my nikons. Its a personal thing, getting either would not be a bad choice, I say try both and get what feels right for you.
Bmark
Senior Member
Yea, if I were planning on shelling out $3,000.00 for a camera body I might also consider the 5D. It's a little out of my price target (by the time I buy the lenses for the minimum coverage I desire I am in the $4,000 to $5,000 range with the 30D or the D200). Also, I actually like the magnification factor because I do a lot of telephoto work.
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
PismoBeach
Senior Member
In my opinion the firmware updates are not really a strong consideration in buying a platform. It's not the reason why I got the D200. I got it because it is capable NOW, not down the road after an S version comes out. It is great that Nikon offers the firmware but I really didn't feel like much happened when I updated the D70 firmware with D70s firmware. I am sure I'd feel the same way if Canon did that too. Let's analyze canon, if your minor upgrade argument holds up. Let's see..
1D to 1D Mark 2 was a 4mp to 8mp upgrade along with other improvements. The N model was a 12 month replacement to add buffer and a bigger LCD.
The 1Ds to 1Ds Mark 2 was a 11mp to 16mp improvement. Seems substantial to me.
Rebel to Rebel XT was 6mp to 8mp, new body.
30D to 60D was 3 to 6mp, to 10D was a midyear replacement at 6mp with a much sturdier body and better AF. Then the 10D to 20D was a new AF system and was 8mp. The 30D added a 100,000k life shutter, 2x improvement, larger LCD, larger buffer. Yes the chips is the same but they lowered the price. The last one was not major but it was not minor.
1D to 1D Mark 2 was a 4mp to 8mp upgrade along with other improvements. The N model was a 12 month replacement to add buffer and a bigger LCD.
The 1Ds to 1Ds Mark 2 was a 11mp to 16mp improvement. Seems substantial to me.
Rebel to Rebel XT was 6mp to 8mp, new body.
30D to 60D was 3 to 6mp, to 10D was a midyear replacement at 6mp with a much sturdier body and better AF. Then the 10D to 20D was a new AF system and was 8mp. The 30D added a 100,000k life shutter, 2x improvement, larger LCD, larger buffer. Yes the chips is the same but they lowered the price. The last one was not major but it was not minor.
Jeff Morris
Senior Member
I had a 100-400 when i owned my D30 the D60.
The 100-400 was built like a tank.
It was very heavy.
It was SOFT!!!!!!!
It was a push pull that I hate, talk about a long lens.
Focus speed was nothing great.
Canons forums at the time were complaining about the mentioned softness.
The Nikkor is very well built, it does have some plastic in it, but it feels great and it is lite.
The lens is very sharp, pro quality glass.
The VR works VERY well.
It is a very slow focus lens due to it's gearing.
There is no contest IMHO, the Nikkor is a far superior performer!
Regards,
Jeff Morris / Homecinemaman
Adams, Gutmann, Steichen, Snoopy, Stigletz, Weston. they lead by example.
The 100-400 was built like a tank.
It was very heavy.
It was SOFT!!!!!!!
It was a push pull that I hate, talk about a long lens.
Focus speed was nothing great.
Canons forums at the time were complaining about the mentioned softness.
The Nikkor is very well built, it does have some plastic in it, but it feels great and it is lite.
The lens is very sharp, pro quality glass.
The VR works VERY well.
It is a very slow focus lens due to it's gearing.
There is no contest IMHO, the Nikkor is a far superior performer!
Regards,
Jeff Morris / Homecinemaman
Adams, Gutmann, Steichen, Snoopy, Stigletz, Weston. they lead by example.
I would rent both for a w-e and see which one works best for me. Worth the expense, considering what is spent later in a system.
Nobody can make the choice for you. We each have our own. Consider John's priorities vs. mine:
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Thierry
Nobody can make the choice for you. We each have our own. Consider John's priorities vs. mine:
To me VR in a fast short zoom is a useless feature. It adds to the lens cost, its weight, and more mechanical parts inside the lens add potential for a failure down the road. I want it only if there is a return on my investment.
FF is not an option until the 5D drops 50% in price. Until then, it is just out of my reach.
I'm totally indifferent to the above. Proprietary (and often idiosyncratic, obscure) RAW formats are everywhere. All manufacturers use these formats and not just in photography. It is also arguable that the NEF format (actually only the WB coeff.) is "encrypted": it is too easy to decipher to be called "encryption:.
Yes, but not a big deal to me.
Another minor issue to me. No camera is perfect, they all have their own little idiosyncracies. But the D200 has many excellent features to make up for a small mishap.
I've bought fast lenses from Nikon w/o problem. Although it's true that the 17-55 f2.8 afs supply has been a bit erratic recently. The price of success ...
I shoot very little at > ISO400. It is not that lower noise at high ISO would not be useful on occasions, it is that the way I shoot I would not take advantage of it very often. Hence I put a lower priority on this than many others (but again, to each her/his own). Also I've yet to see a people portrait shot with a Canon dSLR w/o that unmistakable plastic appearance, and I'll swap good portraits at low ISO over lower noise at high ISO in a hearbeat (the main reason I would want to rent the Canon dSLR would be to check this for myself: is it the way people process the pics, or is it a characterics of Canon CMOS sensors,with no way around it).
True. That would be item #1 or 2 if I had made that list. One thing I like in Canon's lens line-up is the availability of optically high quality lenses but slower and consequently much more affordable. The 70-200 f4L is a very good example (what a sweet lens). There isn't an equivalent in Nikon's lens line-up. So if I were on a tighter budget and could not afford the 70-200 f2.8 AFS VR which I have, this would definitely have a significant impact in my decision. For my budget and my priorities, Nikon has exactly the lenses I want/wish for, and Canon not quite (IMHO the 70-200 f2.8L USM IS is not a match for the 70-200 f2.8 AFS VR because of its so-so performance at short focal length). Thefore #8 as it is tilts towards Nikon. In other times, with another lens budget, it may have been different.
Plus two more
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Thierry
n057
Veteran Member
Because I decided a long time ago I want Nikon. I almost bought a Canon when they had the breech-lock mount. When they dropped that I looked for other features, and decided on Nikon.
Now I will not look back. So much so that I am totally oblivous to anything Canon offers. I admit I am so totally biased towards Nikon that I am hopeless
Now, if you want to discuss printers, yes, there I am a Canon fan.
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JC
Sascha Gast
Leading Member
oh my god. if anything i like Nikon because Nikon people don't go to the Canon forum to defend their choice of brand. what a joke, go back where you choose to be and stop talking like this in a NIKON FORUM. All of us here decided on NIKON for one reason or another.
Why do you come here and try to prove anything, I don't give a sh..
20% market share vs whatever, is this how you make decisions.
I am sure McDonalds sells the most burgers, but please don't tell me that's because they are good or better than anybodies burgers. they are everywhere, feel flimsy in your hand and have great advertising. I like In'n Out burger, much better feel/taste and suits my needs.
this is meant to be a forum for adults...hahaha, right.
but maybe I am just 20% right and 80% over all this cra....
and to the OP, it's like asking if you should buy a yellow labrador or a golden retriever. feel them both and get what you like because they are essentially the same kind of great dog.
but please do your homework and test them both
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Sascha
http://www.pbase.com/saschagast
'I really don't care if you think your gear is better than mine', my girlfriend is really hot...........
Why do you come here and try to prove anything, I don't give a sh..
20% market share vs whatever, is this how you make decisions.
I am sure McDonalds sells the most burgers, but please don't tell me that's because they are good or better than anybodies burgers. they are everywhere, feel flimsy in your hand and have great advertising. I like In'n Out burger, much better feel/taste and suits my needs.
this is meant to be a forum for adults...hahaha, right.
but maybe I am just 20% right and 80% over all this cra....
and to the OP, it's like asking if you should buy a yellow labrador or a golden retriever. feel them both and get what you like because they are essentially the same kind of great dog.
but please do your homework and test them both
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Sascha
http://www.pbase.com/saschagast
'I really don't care if you think your gear is better than mine', my girlfriend is really hot...........
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