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SelrahCharleS

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Alright, the price of the DL with the rebate has me tempted. I currently have a Sony DSC F717 which I really like for the most part... but there is a few issues I have. I could afford a DL+kit lens right now, and thats about it. What I'm wondering is how well my 717 stacks up against the DL, is it worth it to me to upgrade or should I just wait until I can afford a better camera?(D or the new D replacement).
  • Image quality: The extra megapixel is of little concern. I think my Sony compares nicely at low ISO as I printed of some comparison photos from this website.
  • AF: Would the DL really be that much faster? I notice the 717 has five area AF vs three area on the DL, does that make a difference?
  • Viewfinder/MF: I find my Sony pretty difficult to manually focus, and it does not do well in bright sun, one of my main complaints actually(although I really like the EVF for some things). I would rather have the pentaprism, but I've heard the DL viewfinder is actually pretty good.
  • Size: I think the DL might be more unobtrusive actually, especially if I bought the DA 40(although the FA 43 is pretty small, and that would work with my k-1000 too, hmm). Even the M 28 I have is pretty small.
  • Overall speed: Shutter lag should be nonexistant when prefocused. Shot to shot times in raw or jpg... hmm burst mode with raw looks about as bad as burst mode on my 717, I dont see myself needing it all that much though.
  • RAW file size: Storage space and processing them. I'm not sure the computer I currently have would be up to the task... I think I would want to shoot in raw a lot too. Its a possibilty I could get a decent computer though from a friend.
  • LBA: I currently have an SMC-M 28mm(btw, is this a good lens?) and an M 50 1.4, as well as a 135mm 2.5 and access to a couple of lenses my dad has... with the kit lens this should be a satisfactory setup right? Well at least until I get my hands on some money again:)
  • Accessories: What do I need besides memory and another set of Nimh AA's? anything?
  • Disatisfaction: I bought the 717, and now after a year I want something better... and the DL is the bottom of the DSLR barrel. A conflict in nature, I am person who like my dads '50 pickup because it has no auto features and I like my k-1000 for the same reason, but then I'm also a bit of a gear head too... I dont want to be one of those people:( I need to stop reading photo magazines and internet forums.
Anything else I should take into consideration? Convince me not to buy it, or further reinforce this feeling that I need a DSLR... is my 717 good enough for me(yes) or would a DL be a lot better(you tell me). I already know a lot of the advantages of the DSLR such as system expandability, but how will it compare when until I have more money to buy the extras for it? or am I just better of waiting until I can afford a couple of lenses along with the purchase?

Sorry for starting yet another one of these threads, but as a lurker I always found them useful(well apperantly not that useful as I'm now asking pretty much the same as in all the threads I've read). But this is not really a which should I buy question, its a should I wait to buy question. If anybody has/had a 717 I would really like to hear your opinion, maybe not on how good the Dl is, but how good the 717 is... How does the 717 compare in "feel" and other subjective factors? Would it be that much a difference? or should I be satisfied with my current camera for now.

Also, how does the rebate process work.... I only have thirty days from the date of purchase right, what if I order from somewhere like beach camera and shipping is really slow?? Am I screwed if the camera doesnt get here in time(although thirty days is a fairly long time).

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
You have some good lenses to start with already, and the kit lens with the DL is also pretty good for the money.

Will you ever be truly satisfied? Not likely. :-) But in truth, that's no different regarding automobiles, computers, clothes... there will always be a new and improved model coming down the pipe soon. If you want to try a DSLR, you will not find a better value than the DL with rebate. Dip your toes into the water and use this opportunity to learn. There has never been a better time to get aquainted with DSLR technology than right now.

David
 
Oh, I forgot - I stepped up to an *ist DL from a Fuji S7000. The S7000 is an EXCELLENT prosumer camera... 6/12MP, 6x zoom, very ergonomic and nice color. Quite a few people use this camera as a backup to their DSLR.

However, after moving up to the *ist DL, I have taken maybe ten pictures and a little bit of video. I loved my S7000, but have been fascinated by my Pentax and the the more professional results I am getting. I can't believe the difference it has made to me in just learning more about photography.

David
 
I have a DS and it works a lot easier with those old M lenses than the K1000 did. The DL will work the same way. The 28/2.8 and 50/1.4 will be great on the DL. The 28 becomes a normal lens and the 50 becomes a short tele.

You may want to pass on the kit lens and get a short prime instead. I do not use my kit lens and instead use a Zenitar 16, A28/2.8 and F50/1.7. The Zenitar is very wide angle and a blast to use.
 
I don't mean to sound presumptuous but would you really need/afford the upcoming K10D (or whatever it ends up being named)?

From the sound of things, being a younger lad, it seems like an expensive camera to really get into.

The rebated DL sounds like a more reasonable purchase if you want the flexibility of an SLR over the F717.

Avoid analytical paralysis, go with what you feel comfortable with and what's in your means and enjoy your hobby.
 
K1000Photographer said:
I have a DS and it works a lot easier with those old M lenses than
the K1000 did. The DL will work the same way. The 28/2.8 and 50/1.4
will be great on the DL. The 28 becomes a normal lens and the 50
becomes a short tele.

You may want to pass on the kit lens and get a short prime instead.
I do not use my kit lens and instead use a Zenitar 16, A28/2.8 and
F50/1.7. The Zenitar is very wide angle and a blast to use.
Click to expand...
I thought of that as I am really not a zoom guy(the 717 gets used at the wide and tele of my zoom range, and occasionally right in the middle), but even with the kit lens the DL is a heckuva price right now(I think from beach cameras its only $50 more with the kit than body only)

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
IRussell said:
I don't mean to sound presumptuous but would you really need/afford
the upcoming K10D (or whatever it ends up being named)?

From the sound of things, being a younger lad, it seems like an
expensive camera to really get into.

The rebated DL sounds like a more reasonable purchase if you want
the flexibility of an SLR over the F717.

Avoid analytical paralysis, go with what you feel comfortable with
and what's in your means and enjoy your hobby.
Click to expand...
Thats the gearhead in me, its more of a want than a need... and I would probably keep that camera for some time(dont have to hear gf and family say "what? you bought another camera?"). I really like the two control wheels and the other extra on the body, but I agree that right now, being a younger lad, the DL is more in my price range... and its probably really good enough. Analytical paralysis is one of my worst personality traits I think:) I think I need to try out the DL in person if I can find one in a store somewhere.

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
I think your right... and I'm feeling kinda bad leaving those lenses laying around because of the price of film.
insulglass said:
You have some good lenses to start with already, and the kit lens
with the DL is also pretty good for the money.

Will you ever be truly satisfied? Not likely. :-) But in truth,
that's no different regarding automobiles, computers, clothes...
there will always be a new and improved model coming down the pipe
soon. If you want to try a DSLR, you will not find a better value
than the DL with rebate. Dip your toes into the water and use this
opportunity to learn. There has never been a better time to get
aquainted with DSLR technology than right now.

David
Click to expand...
--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
I would say the kit lens would be worth $50. It is a useful range, it does a good job and sometimes you want the convenience of a zoom and AF.

Have you tried your old primes on a DL yet? You will love the 50/1.4. :-)
 
SelrahCharleS said:
I think your right... and I'm feeling kinda bad leaving those
lenses laying around because of the price of film.
Click to expand...
When I stepped up to serious digital photography, I found out that with digitals, I take over 100 times as many pictures than I did with film. One can argue all day long about the merits of film quality, color saturation, etc etc but one cannot argue the economy of digital.

For less than $500 and using lenses you already have, you will have a system capable of taking superb shots that is IMHO more versatile and more cost effective than any film system available today.

David
 
K1000Photographer said:
I would say the kit lens would be worth $50. It is a useful range,
it does a good job and sometimes you want the convenience of a zoom
and AF.

Have you tried your old primes on a DL yet? You will love the
50/1.4. :-)
Click to expand...
Looks like beach camera is a reputable store too... so yeah $367 for the kit or $312 body only... So far I have not been able to find a store that carries the DL around here(I have trouble finding one that has a Rebel on display) to play with. I really would like to before plopping down all of my spending money on it.

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
insulglass said:
SelrahCharleS said:
I think your right... and I'm feeling kinda bad leaving those
lenses laying around because of the price of film.
Click to expand...
When I stepped up to serious digital photography, I found out that
with digitals, I take over 100 times as many pictures than I did
with film. One can argue all day long about the merits of film
quality, color saturation, etc etc but one cannot argue the economy
of digital.

For less than $500 and using lenses you already have, you will have
a system capable of taking superb shots that is IMHO more versatile
and more cost effective than any film system available today.

David
Click to expand...
Yep, I like film, and I will continue to use it. But digital gets me better pictures simply because I am willing to take more(I've put over ten thousand shots on my 717, maybe a hundred or so with film).

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
I was a long time Film SLR shooter when I bought a Fuji 602z (my first digicam). In short - loved it (BUT) hated not having a SLR viewfinder and "instant" shooting capacity w/no shutter lag. So... moved from that to a Minolta A1. Again, nice, but not a "SLR".

Since I got my first DSLR (now about 2.5 years ago), I've virtually only taken about 20 shots w/the A1. I've had the KM 5D and 7D, Nikon's D2h and D200 and Oly E-1, AND most recently a Pentax *istD. Still have the D200.... but have not used it since I got the *istD. I simply LOVE the Pentax. Regarding Image Quality - My first DSLR was a 4megapixel and flat out blew the A1 away in image qualty.

It is simple, VERY Well made, gives great images, don't have to shoot RAW, light, small, Amazing Viewfinder...... and I could go on.

There (IMHO) is no comparison between a D"SLR" and a Digicam (regardless of the digicam).

One person before said it (the digital field is advancing so rapidly that you simply cannot keep up with it... in "new goodies"). However, I think we tend to get adicted to this whole thing of "new goodies". I'm not sure image quality advances to the degree of "the goodies". Case in point being my *istD. Now a several year old model, it reneders amazing results which totally satisfy my needs... but now they are coming out w/in body stabilization.... so "there I go again"... :-).

There is probably not a "bad" DSLR out there today (regardless of make or model). They are all capable of far more than I'll ever capture. To me it is a matter of "feel and handling" as well as matching "the goodies" to what kind of photography I do most often.

I do not think you could go wrong w/a DL. I've held one and shot frames throught it (at Circuit City) and that was part of what moved me to Pentax. Really nice.....

Soooooo I'm assuming this has not enticed you to save your $$$$ either... right??? :-)

Bob

--
BobNIK
 
SelrahCharleS said:
Alright, the price of the DL with the rebate has me tempted. I
currently have a Sony DSC F717 which I really like for the most
part... but there is a few issues I have. I could afford a DL+kit
lens right now, and thats about it. What I'm wondering is how well
my 717 stacks up against the DL, is it worth it to me to upgrade or
should I just wait until I can afford a better camera?(D or the new
D replacement).
Click to expand...
The F707 717 828 series Sonys are (having owned and used several) honestly, utter and complete cr__ next to ANY DSLR, and the Pentax DSLRs are by no means bottom of the barrel.

In fact, I'd rather have (and am going to get one shortly) a Pentax camera overa Sony almost any day.

I never like the Minoltas (my own prefs), and I started with Pentax. Pentax has a track record, the buttons are where they should be, lots of aftermarket and Pentax lenses and accessories, good 'finder.

Never buy something absolutely new. Leave the new Sony Alpha to the first buyers and get a cam that will take great pix and handle really well.

--
Dana Curtis Kincaid
http://www.angrytoyrobot.blogspot.com

Minolta Scan Dual IV film scanner
Contax G1
Contax G2
Contax 167MT
Sony V1
Sony Video Cameras
Canon S9000
Epson 820

Apple PowerMac Dual 2GHz G5
 
bobmax said:
I was a long time Film SLR shooter when I bought a Fuji 602z (my
first digicam). In short - loved it (BUT) hated not having a SLR
viewfinder and "instant" shooting capacity w/no shutter lag. So...
moved from that to a Minolta A1. Again, nice, but not a "SLR".

Since I got my first DSLR (now about 2.5 years ago), I've virtually
only taken about 20 shots w/the A1. I've had the KM 5D and 7D,
Nikon's D2h and D200 and Oly E-1, AND most recently a Pentax *istD.
Still have the D200.... but have not used it since I got the *istD.
I simply LOVE the Pentax. Regarding Image Quality - My first DSLR
was a 4megapixel and flat out blew the A1 away in image qualty.

It is simple, VERY Well made, gives great images, don't have to
shoot RAW, light, small, Amazing Viewfinder...... and I could go on.

There (IMHO) is no comparison between a D"SLR" and a Digicam
(regardless of the digicam).

One person before said it (the digital field is advancing so
rapidly that you simply cannot keep up with it... in "new
goodies"). However, I think we tend to get adicted to this whole
thing of "new goodies". I'm not sure image quality advances to the
degree of "the goodies". Case in point being my *istD. Now a
several year old model, it reneders amazing results which totally
satisfy my needs... but now they are coming out w/in body
stabilization.... so "there I go again"... :-).

There is probably not a "bad" DSLR out there today (regardless of
make or model). They are all capable of far more than I'll ever
capture. To me it is a matter of "feel and handling" as well as
matching "the goodies" to what kind of photography I do most often.

I do not think you could go wrong w/a DL. I've held one and shot
frames throught it (at Circuit City) and that was part of what
moved me to Pentax. Really nice.....

Soooooo I'm assuming this has not enticed you to save your $$$$
either... right??? :-)

Bob

--
BobNIK
Click to expand...
I think I am going to have to look around the house for things to sell on ebay. I like my Sony, but I think the DSLR will adress my main frustrations... I'll just take a little out of my car fund, its healthier to walk anyways:)

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
I would suggest that you call Beach Camera to see what is included in their price for the *ist DL. I've checked on some items from some of these low cost sites e.g., bestcameraprices.com, that were priced extremely low. After some discussion with the Customer Service Rep, I discovered that their "Kit" didn't come with a battery, charger or software.

I don't know about Beach, but it would be worthwhile to see why their price is so much lower.
 
Good suggestion, on their website it says they are a Pentax authorized dealer... and I checked resellerratings.com and several other sites like it and it sounds like the only issues were occasional late shipping... I might call anyway to make sure its in stock. They sound like a good dealer.
BLanam said:
I would suggest that you call Beach Camera to see what is included
in their price for the *ist DL. I've checked on some items from
some of these low cost sites e.g., bestcameraprices.com, that were
priced extremely low. After some discussion with the Customer
Service Rep, I discovered that their "Kit" didn't come with a
battery, charger or software.

I don't know about Beach, but it would be worthwhile to see why
their price is so much lower.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
SelrahCharleS said:
  • Viewfinder/MF: I find my Sony pretty difficult to manually
focus, and it does not do well in bright sun, one of my main
complaints actually(although I really like the EVF for some
things). I would rather have the pentaprism, but I've heard the DL
viewfinder is actually pretty good.
Click to expand...
DL/DL2 viewfinders are brighter than D/DS/DS2 viewfinders which have higher magnification. So there is tradeoff. But how easy to manual focus depends on the lens too. Both are not bad anyway.
SelrahCharleS said:
  • Size: I think the DL might be more unobtrusive actually,
especially if I bought the DA 40(although the FA 43 is pretty
small, and that would work with my k-1000 too, hmm). Even the M 28
I have is pretty small.
Click to expand...
DA40/2.8 is quite a bit thinner than FA43/1.9.
SelrahCharleS said:
  • RAW file size: Storage space and processing them. I'm not sure
the computer I currently have would be up to the task... I think I
would want to shoot in raw a lot too. Its a possibilty I could get
a decent computer though from a friend.
Click to expand...
Or just use an external drive, or 2.
SelrahCharleS said:
  • LBA: I currently have an SMC-M 28mm(btw, is this a good lens?)
and an M 50 1.4, as well as a 135mm 2.5 and access to a couple of
lenses my dad has... with the kit lens this should be a
satisfactory setup right? Well at least until I get my hands on
some money again:)
Click to expand...
Better get the DA kit lens which goes down to 18mm.
SelrahCharleS said:
  • Accessories: What do I need besides memory and another set of
Nimh AA's? anything?
Click to expand...
Flash? Not essential anyway.
SelrahCharleS said:
  • Disatisfaction: I bought the 717, and now after a year I want
something better... and the DL is the bottom of the DSLR barrel. A
conflict in nature, I am person who like my dads '50 pickup because
it has no auto features and I like my k-1000 for the same reason,
but then I'm also a bit of a gear head too... I dont want to be one
of those people:( I need to stop reading photo magazines and
internet forums.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with the DL, except maybe the small 3raw/5jpeg buffer if it matters to you.
SelrahCharleS said:
Anything else I should take into consideration? Convince me not to
buy it, or further reinforce this feeling that I need a DSLR... is
my 717 good enough for me(yes) or would a DL be a lot better(you
tell me). I already know a lot of the advantages of the DSLR such
as system expandability, but how will it compare when until I have
more money to buy the extras for it? or am I just better of waiting
until I can afford a couple of lenses along with the purchase?
Click to expand...
If you use high ISO, DSLR is a no brainer. If not, why not keep using the 717? I think the K100D with SR will be a more attractive camera, but won't be as cheap.
--
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan/
 
wlachan said:
SelrahCharleS said:
  • Viewfinder/MF: I find my Sony pretty difficult to manually
focus, and it does not do well in bright sun, one of my main
complaints actually(although I really like the EVF for some
things). I would rather have the pentaprism, but I've heard the DL
viewfinder is actually pretty good.
Click to expand...
DL/DL2 viewfinders are brighter than D/DS/DS2 viewfinders which
have higher magnification. So there is tradeoff. But how easy to
manual focus depends on the lens too. Both are not bad anyway.
Member said:
  • Size: I think the DL might be more unobtrusive actually,
especially if I bought the DA 40(although the FA 43 is pretty
small, and that would work with my k-1000 too, hmm). Even the M 28
I have is pretty small.
Click to expand...
DA40/2.8 is quite a bit thinner than FA43/1.9.
Member said:
  • RAW file size: Storage space and processing them. I'm not sure
the computer I currently have would be up to the task... I think I
would want to shoot in raw a lot too. Its a possibilty I could get
a decent computer though from a friend.
Click to expand...
Or just use an external drive, or 2.
Member said:
  • LBA: I currently have an SMC-M 28mm(btw, is this a good lens?)
and an M 50 1.4, as well as a 135mm 2.5 and access to a couple of
lenses my dad has... with the kit lens this should be a
satisfactory setup right? Well at least until I get my hands on
some money again:)
Click to expand...
Better get the DA kit lens which goes down to 18mm.
Member said:
  • Accessories: What do I need besides memory and another set of
Nimh AA's? anything?
Click to expand...
Flash? Not essential anyway.
Click to expand...
Well, I have an old flash laying around here... and the onboard flash, but I'm an available light fan.
Member said:
Member said:
  • Disatisfaction: I bought the 717, and now after a year I want
something better... and the DL is the bottom of the DSLR barrel. A
conflict in nature, I am person who like my dads '50 pickup because
it has no auto features and I like my k-1000 for the same reason,
but then I'm also a bit of a gear head too... I dont want to be one
of those people:( I need to stop reading photo magazines and
internet forums.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with the DL, except maybe the small 3raw/5jpeg buffer
if it matters to you.
Click to expand...
I thought it might... but the more I think about it, I dont think it will.
Member said:
Member said:
Anything else I should take into consideration? Convince me not to
buy it, or further reinforce this feeling that I need a DSLR... is
my 717 good enough for me(yes) or would a DL be a lot better(you
tell me). I already know a lot of the advantages of the DSLR such
as system expandability, but how will it compare when until I have
more money to buy the extras for it? or am I just better of waiting
until I can afford a couple of lenses along with the purchase?
Click to expand...
If you use high ISO, DSLR is a no brainer. If not, why not keep
using the 717? I think the K100D with SR will be a more attractive
camera, but won't be as cheap.
--
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan/
Click to expand...
The K100D is indeed a more attractive camera(I even like how the name looks like K1000) but yes it will be more expensive. I dont use high ISO much now, but I think thats mostly because I dont like the high ISO on my 717... I think I would use it more with the DL. Thank you for the many responses, I think I will buy it:)

--



http://www.geocities.com/wild_tiger_1

http://flickr.com/photos/selrahcharles/

Whats more important to you? Taking photographs that have great image quality, or taking photographs that are quality images?
 
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