Live MOS Sensor & Leica D Vario Elmarit 14-50 mm

I thought these articles could be interesting ( and promising ) for a few people in this forum. Enjoy !

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/popup/behind_the_scenes_l1/vol3.html

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/popup/behind_the_scenes_l1/vol4.html

Regards ,
Nic

It seems to 'arrangment' between Leica and Panny is panny designs and builds the things.. Leica just advise, quote:

"We received a great deal of strict and precise advice as we proceeded together with the development of this new lens."

Then there's the 'wide angle distortion' V 'imaging performance' thing, quote:

"The part that the joint development team worked hardest on, right to the end, was suppressing distortion at the wide-angle setting. Balancing that with the imaging performance was very difficult, and it seemed like we were going to have to give up on it a number of times. Leica Camera AG, though, insisted that we meet the standard, saying "beautiful image rendering is meaningless if the subject is distorted." "

Leica insisted that they go back the drawing board.. not leica helped us to re-do things.. or leica offered us technical knowledge to overcome things.. leica insisted we go back and do it again!

He said at the start that "we were scolded by the production technology people for asking them to manufacture such a difficult lens (laughter). "

So it's panny 'designing' and panny 'making'! Leica may have 'sold' technology know how to them earlier in thier relationship but now it appears to be Panny buying the right to use the Leica name and Leica being able to insist that they don't 'sullly' it while they have the rights.

I think we all knew that that was the relationship but I didn't expect to see it presented like that. They as good as say 'panny make it'! Maybe that's the massage... Panny are able to make leica quality lenses!!
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There's a bit in this one where, at the start of the design process where they're getting to know the ins and outs of the 4/3rds standard, they talk to Oly:

"we held regular discussions with the Olympus staff. In those discussions, we had to clarify matters that were unique to the camera industry and commonly understood by camera makers so we could share the same understanding. In the beginning, we spent most of our time defining details."

Now add the fact that they're making leica lenses to the same quality, etc, that Leica would...

Look at what's in the mixing bowl: Leica know how and quality... rubbing elbows with Olympus in 'technical discussions... and an ambitious multi-national! What does that tell you?

I predict in 10 years a Panny dSLR will be as good as a nikon/canon/olympus dSLR in every way!

I suppose that's a no-brainer as they'd gone from P&Ss to dSLRs in a few years.. a Pro dSLR is just a matter of time in their upwardly mobile progression.

But they're already talked about in the same breath as Leica and Olympus.. 2 respected 'optical giant' brands!! And Pannasonic is right alongside Oly and leica in every senstence on the web. Just think: that is going into the consciousness of every punter out there. You probably couldn't buy that advertising. It's very clever!

Yeah, they're another one of the yuppie camera makers! ;-)
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Panasonic is talking big, but we'll see what the image quality is really like in a bit. The first preview is in, and it's unimpressive so far. Keep in mind that this is probably a pre-production model and that the weather conditions for test photos looked horrible

Still, I don't much think it's going to have anything over the E-330 in image quliaty, noise...

The L1--getting ripped to shreds:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=19020435

Cheers, Seth

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What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

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http://www.wallygoots.com

All of the questions and answers, but the biggest one asked in the forum is not asked in their promo. Of course most people don't want to hear something like.....the fixed viewfinder is very convenient for the manufacterer and gives and excellent opportunity for consumer product frustration. This value subtraction allows for futher upselling of the L2 planned within the next 24 months. Meanwhile you may consider also purchasing the much less expensive consumer model FZ-30 which is further along in it's upselling cycle and encorporates the already developed LCD technology which should have been added to the L1.

sej

EMale said:

It seems to 'arrangment' between Leica and Panny is panny designs
and builds the things.. Leica just advise [...].

Leica insisted that they go back the drawing board.. not leica
helped us to re-do things.. or leica offered us technical knowledge
to overcome things.. leica insisted we go back and do it again!

So it's panny 'designing' and panny 'making'! Leica may have 'sold'
technology know how to them earlier in thier relationship but now
it appears to be Panny buying the right to use the Leica name and
Leica being able to insist that they don't 'sullly' it while they
have the rights.

Click to expand...

The important point is that Leica defined the specifications and quality requirements of the lens and the production line. The rest doesn't matter. Who designs the lens, who products the lens, etc., none of this matters if the characteristics of the lens and the production quality is put at a good level... and THAT is what Leica ensures (or at least what they are supposed to).

DR- depends not from pixel size, but from receptor size. So E-330 and L-1 have bigger receptor then Canon or Sony CMOS cameras, even with smaller sensor size.



http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/l1/sensor_venusengine01.html

..I hadn't read about their relationship 'stated boldly' before... it's always been 'leica and panny holding hands' without a detailed who does what. Or at least I hadn't read it!

So Leica are selling their brands namme as a 'consultation service'? They act like the tradesman to pannys 'apprentice'!
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... of the published NMOS bits!

Sure, i know what they're saying to me but tomtry to actually understand the way the actual photosites are arranged?

It's as clear as mud!



Now to my simple eyes: that is an illustration of the top of a photosite, right? It's a section though a photosite.. a pixel!

First off, half the photosite has 'AL Seal' and 'aperture' closing off about ½ of the avialable surface.

So only about 50% of the suface is open to the light thru the aperture, right!

Then there's a bit of 'P-Sub' and 'Curcuit' closing off a good 2/3rds of that already restricted opening.

What's left is a 'L' shaped photosite, the opening of which is using about 1/7th of the area available to the photosite!

Now here's what the press release says about the photosites design:

"Redesigned Sensor Elements with Greater Photosensitive Surface Area

The Live MOS Sensor takes advantage of the simplified circuit requirements and thinner layer structure of NMOS type sensors to offer a larger photosensitive surface area. In addition, circuit technology refinements were made to boost light utilisation efficiency and improve image quality.

A new transfer mechanism for photodiode signal readout enabled us to reduce the number of circuit paths to two, the same as in a CCD sensor, and thereby minimise the surface area that is unresponsive to light. By effectively enlarging the photosensitive surface area and enabling it to capture light that was previously lost, we were able to achieve both high sensitivity and superior image quality. We also developed a new low-noise photodiode signal amplification circuit to further improve sensitivity."

The drawing says one thing and the press release another!

Surely after all the time that's elapsed since NMOS was installed in the 330, we should know more about it?

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EMale said:

So it's panny 'designing' and panny 'making'! Leica may have 'sold'
technology know how to them earlier in thier relationship but now
it appears to be Panny buying the right to use the Leica name and
Leica being able to insist that they don't 'sullly' it while they
have the rights.

Click to expand...

I have never thought much about these combinations of electronic company/German combinations as far as them meaning much, other than to trying to impress the uneducated.

Here's what "Leica" glass and build quality costs:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=305179&is=USA&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I could make this same comparison of Sony/Zeiss is Zeiss actually still made 35mm type lenses, which they haven't since the early 1970's.

I see little in common with the above link and this "Leica" lens being made for the Panasonic DSLR. Today, lens technology and know how as far as design aren't exactly tough to come by with computers and programs available to design a good quality lens, and Japanese-made lens quality for at least the last 40 years is as good as anyone. About the only thing Panasonic needed from Leica was name recognition, and I guess they've gotten that with people acting like this may actually be a Leica lens, which it isn't. I do guess they need it though- would you still be as excited it the lens said "Panasonic" instead of "Leica" on it?

Your post did make me think. The Panasonic L1 is the only new DSLR designed by a first time DSLR maker. (Of course, it depends how much influcne Leica design department had, and it uses the Olympus DSLR "kit")

But still, it is much more than the Sony and Samsung efforts, which are nothing but rebranded Minoltas and Pentaxes...
Interesting times, indeed.

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http://www.4-3system.com
http://jonr.light.is

Yeah, panny is no longer seen alongside the others like rocoh, sanyo, casio's, is it?

You know leica said to re-do the barrel distortion of 14mm end of the 14-50 again, have you seen the 'improved' version?



The old one must have been even worse! (snigger, snigger)

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