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H1: Is anything wrong with my H1...Plz Help

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Deeps

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I own H1 since last 4 months. i was using mostly Auto mode, but after thoroughly reading Whitepaper and understanding exposure, aperture, shutter speed, ISO, histogram, EV etc, i started using manual mode.

But I'm not happy with the pictures. All photos look underexposed to me, soft and dull. Photos taken by some experts with H1 here in this forum are very sharp and gr8 looking.

Here are some photos that I have taken today morning. It wasn’t sunny day, it was cloudy weather. All photos are very soft, looks underexposed. Can u expert tell me what is wrong here? All photos taken in manual mode. All photos are directly from camera without PP. I really need some expert advice here where I’m going wrong. I have also selected "Cloudy" and "Daylight" WB, also "Auto"...but no use of it....All photos are taken at 24X zoom without teleConverter and without tripod (i feel we don’t need tripod at 1/500 shutter speed). After uploading photos on flickrm i couldn’t see EXIF info, so i have copied it below each photo.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69715550@N00/177483402/

DateTime - 2006:06:29 07:52:59
ExifOffset - 256
ExposureTime - 1/500 seconds
FNumber - 3.70
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 64
ExifVersion - 0220
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 8 (bits/pixel)
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Spot
LightSource - Cloudy weather
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 72.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ExifImageWidth - 2592
ExifImageHeight - 1728
InteroperabilityOffset - 2278
SceneType - A directly photographed image
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
WhiteBalance - Manual
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69715550@N00/177484515/

ExifOffset - 256
ExposureTime - 1/500 seconds
FNumber - 5.00
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 64
ExifVersion - 0220
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 8 (bits/pixel)
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Spot
LightSource - Daylight
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 72.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ExifImageWidth - 2592
ExifImageHeight - 1728
InteroperabilityOffset - 2278
SceneType - A directly photographed image
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
WhiteBalance - Manual
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69715550@N00/177486582/

DateTime - 2006:06:29 07:56:35
ExifOffset - 256
ExposureTime - 1/800 seconds
FNumber - 4.50
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 64
ExifVersion - 0220
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 8 (bits/pixel)
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Center weighted average
LightSource - Cloudy weather
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 72.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ExifImageWidth - 2592
ExifImageHeight - 1728
InteroperabilityOffset - 2278
SceneType - A directly photographed image
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
WhiteBalance - Manual
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69715550@N00/177486585/

DateTime - 2006:06:29 08:12:50
ExifOffset - 256
ExposureTime - 1/500 seconds
FNumber - 4.50
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 64
ExifVersion - 0220
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 8 (bits/pixel)
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Spot
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 72.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ExifImageWidth - 2592
ExifImageHeight - 1728
InteroperabilityOffset - 2278
SceneType - A directly photographed image
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
WhiteBalance - Auto
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

I have second problem with my H1...Whenever I use manual mode, all EXIF info always show 0EV. e.g. Whenever I compose photo, lock focus, first it shows me say +2EV when shutter button half pressed, and when I take snap, in EXIF and while viewing snap in camera it always shows me 0EV. I'have not seen any photo which shows me some + or - EV, its always 0EV even if it is some different EV value when shutter half pressed. Can u expert tell me what is wrong here...Here is one snap that i took in morning. I purposefully taken this snap over exposed. After shutter half pressed it was showing me +2EV, but in EXIF its 0EV. I dont know why. (At least before taking snap i could see its overexposed, so i know). Please tell me what’s going here. Here is that photo -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69715550@N00/177487936/

DateTime - 2006:06:29 08:41:16
ExifOffset - 256
ExposureTime - 1/60 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 0220
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 8 (bits/pixel)
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Spot
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 6.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ExifImageWidth - 2592
ExifImageHeight - 1728
InteroperabilityOffset - 2278
SceneType - A directly photographed image
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
WhiteBalance - Auto
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

Thanks in advance
Deeps
 
looks OK to me.

check the settings on your metering mode, the underexposed shots are a dark subject on a bright background and may be underexposed because the camera wants to meter (center weighted, multipoint) to the bright sky.

If it is indeed set on spot metering, i always try to get readings from around the frame to see how much light is actually coming into the lens rather than how much light is coming in from a tiny little area that the spot meter reads. The trick is to figure out how to meter each scene depending on the desired result, i know from experience that i usually make the wrong decision. I think that spot metering requires a balance of reading the meter, and moving the meter throughout the frame to accurately get a grasp of what is going on. i guess the only way to paraphrase is that you have to believe the meter, but the meter is probably lying to you.

as for the EXIF EV reading, since the EV is set to 0 in manual mode (no internal adjustment of the exposure value) the EXIF will always read 0. I dont think there is any way to adjust the EV directly in manual mode, try program mode if you are more comfortable using EV than the shutter and aperture. All that EV does is tell the camera that the desired exposure is a little lighter or darker, and the camera responds by adjusting shutter/aperture. In manual mode there is no reason to use EV, since the shutter and aperture are manual adjustments.

hope i confused you more,

Erik.
--
'everything looks worse, in black and white'
 
Eric...thanks for reply....But....

All photos are taken using Spot metering mode...U can see it in EXIF info I included.... It was not bright day at all...in fact its rainy season here...sky full of clouds that time...I metered parrot and NOT on sky....When I use 'Cloudy' WB, pictures are even more worse ...they getting more underexposed....I dont know why....

Abt EV - I'm not adjusting EV in manual mode...What I'm saying is...in manual mode lets say I set shutter speed to 1/100 and aperture to 4.5...using these setting let say my H1 says it will overexposed image with +2EV when I press shutter half and lock focus and lets say i dont adjust my shutter speed and aperture settings again and take photo as it is with camera saying EV will be +2EV...then EXIF info should show that photo is taken with +2EV and not 0EV...but when I see that photo again in camera or PC , EXIF says EV was 0EV instead of +2.0EV...What i'm saying is after pressing shutter button EV is different and after taking snap EXIF always says its 0EV. I know we cannot adjust EV in manual mode, it can be adjusted in semi-auto mode like P, S, A mode...plz let me know whether I'm missing something or camera is behaving different....

I will highly appreciate if u experts could tell me what is wrong with my parot photos.
 
Regarding EV0 from my technical POW I woud say it is a software bug, resulting frjm idea that in Manual mode you do not command EV setting but it is computed on-the-fly saying how much is the difference between calculated and set esposure. One decided there is no need to save calculated EV in Exif data because being in M mode you're know what you're doing provided you always can refer to much more informative histogram feature of your favourite photo editing software.

Regaring "wrong exposures" issue I can hardly judge from your crops. You didnt provide shots in original size, so it hard to judge the precise point your Spot-metering "cross-hair" was looking at at the precise shooting moment. From my experience it is hard to precisely control Spot metering area (which is extremely small, much smaller then Spot Focus mark to my POW) while shooting at 12x zoom. I'm saying you messed with appropriate exposure in those photos not pointing your camera strict at the bird. Remember that exposure is calculated at the moment of actual shot taken and not at the moment of focus lock. If you shake or move camera a bit while hitting button from focus lock to actual shot position you probably change the spot-metered exposure at 12x by a great deal.

Sorry if I got you wrong.
 
thanks for reply...

if you are saying storing 0EV in EXIF is software bug and probably no problem with my H1, then it should happen with everybody...but if you looks at EXIF info of "fifth" bird (Badhairday.jpg) in following link, it says "ExposureBiasValus" is +0.70EV when photo has been taken in Manual mode (by shutter speed and aperture adjustment and not EV adjustment as in P, S, A mode)...How cum EXIF shows EV as 0.7 in this case? In my case all the time its 0EV even if it is different after shutter button half pressed....

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=16797129

Can u tell me some free website where I can post my photos at original size? I used flickr and posted my original photos without any resizing, but it uploaded photos in small size, i dont know why...is thr any setting to upload it in original size??

Thanks..looking for more replies...

Deeps
 
Use Center-weighted metering and increase your exposure by at least .7 stops whevever shooting against the sky.

You can continue using Spot metering if you wish, but just be certain of your target's brightness value.

Keep in mind that all meters try to turn your photo into this:



...so you'll need to adjust your exposure settings if your subject is lighter or darker than this.

BTW, white balance won't have any noticeable effect on exposure.
R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
Regarding your link http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=16797129 i'm sorry but you read wrong Exif data line. Shooting mode is "Exposure Program", but you read at "Exposure Mode" which is always Manual Exposure for me and I have no idea what it really refers to.

I cannot recommend any site but I have an idea to resize in your favourite photo editing software that reads and keeps Exif data within Jpeg and then post to the web. I recollect that ACDSee should do the trick.

Regards,
stanpol
 
The Exif always shows 0EV when in Manual mode, as it should.
The Exif shows the -settings- not the results.

If you remember from the White Paper, the "EV Meter" changes its function when you're in Manual Mode:

In any automatic mode, the EV =sets= the exposure baseline
In manual mode, the EV turns into a light meter and =reports= the exposure.

Exif reports =settings=, not =reports=.

The exposure =settings= in Manual Mode are the aperture and shutter settings, not the EV meter.

Do don't let that confuse you. 0 EV does NOT mean that you got the exposure right.

Here's the bottom line: light!

You have a classic photographer's nightmare - a strongly backlit subject. It is very difficult to get exposure correct on the foreground and requires some work and judgment on your part. To get a good shot:

1) Get better light. Wait until there is light in front of the subject

2) Use the LCD or EVF display on your camera, and adjust the exposure until the bird looks right to you. If the bird looks shadowed in the LCD or EVF, it will absolutely look shadowed in the photo.

But I am more concerned with something else. Your photo is very soft and very lacking in detail. There are several reasons:

1) Never, never use 24X zoom. You are using Precision Zoom which is horrendous and shouldn't even be on the camera. Your photo is being "interpolated" by the camera. It's "guessing" at 3 out of every four pixels. All detail will be wiped out, smeared, colors wrong, everything. Please turn digital zoom off, or use "Smart Zoom" (which gives you a smaller file) instead!! This mode is garbage.

Even better, get yourself a tele-adapter like the DH1758 from Sony. This is the best you can expect from "precision" zoom. It stinks.

2). You are wrong about "1/500th" is enough so that you don't need a tripod. The rule of thumb is that the slowest shutter speed you can use without a tripod is:1/effective focal length.

So, if you were shooting at 432 mm, you need a tripod at any speed under 1/500th.

I don't know if precision zoom counts toward that, but your effective focal length is 964mm!!!! That's almost 1000 mm!!

What you got is the best you're going to get.

No amount of exposure skill is going to improve a picture of a small bird (less than 1/3 the size of the frame), a huge distance away, on a humid day (lots of haze in the air between you and your subject), backlit and with most of the picture "interpolated" by the camera.

This is sort of the "perfect storm" of elements designed to ruin a picture.

Plus, BTW, Flicker does a lousy job if displaying pictures. When it resizes, it really softens the image. When you download, it clears out the Exif data.

Here's a bad attempt on my part, to resurrect your photo as best as I could do with the material I had to work with:



Two things:

1) DO NOT use precision zoom. It is a disaster. The bird was too far to shoot without a dedicated lens and a tripod.

2) DO NOT leave your date on your image. It really distracts terribly from the shot. Just my opinion, but most people agree with me. I've never seen a date stamp on a National Geographic photo!! :-)

Hope this helps...

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of the H-Series White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/h1whitepaper
 
R2D2 said:
Use Center-weighted metering and increase your exposure by at least
.7 stops whevever shooting against the sky.
Click to expand...
Still won't save an image shot at 24X using precision zoom! IMHO, interpolated zoom should be banned!!
R2D2 said:
You can continue using Spot metering if you wish, but just be
certain of your target's brightness value.

Keep in mind that all meters try to turn your photo into this:



...so you'll need to adjust your exposure settings if your subject
is lighter or darker than this.

BTW, white balance won't have any noticeable effect on exposure.
R2
Click to expand...
Here we differ. Sorry :-)

The WB can have a huge impact on "apparent" exposure - not the light captured by the camera, but the light that's reflected to the eye from a print or emitted to the eye from a monitor:

Add yellow to any shot and it gets much brighter.
Add blue to any shot and it gets much duller.

Add enough red to a shot and the detail all goes bye-bye (which is why I get so very ticked off when rock bands light the stage in nothing but red light!!! :-)

I use Bibble Pro, where you can select WB and change it just by running your mouse over the options. The difference in the brightness of the shots can be dramatic, since the wavelengths of the light have different energies.

Just like an opera singer - the high-notes are -always- louder!! :-)

R2. we haven't had a good disagreement in ages!!!

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of the H-Series White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/h1whitepaper
 
stanpol said:
Regarding EV0 from my technical POW I woud say it is a software
bug, resulting frjm idea that in Manual mode you do not command EV
setting but it is computed on-the-fly saying how much is the
difference between calculated and set esposure.
Click to expand...
It is not a software bug. It is as designed, and all digital cameras will report 0 EV. See my reply to OP. EXIF reports =settings=, not results.

--
=~ AAK - http://www.aakatz.com
=~ Author of the H-Series White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/h1whitepaper
 
AAK said:
R2D2 said:
BTW, white balance won't have any noticeable effect on exposure.
R2
Click to expand...
Here we differ. Sorry :-)

The WB can have a huge impact on "apparent" exposure - not the
light captured by the camera, but the light that's reflected to the
eye from a print or emitted to the eye from a monitor:
Click to expand...
No argument here. Colors are perceived differently.
AAK said:
Add yellow to any shot and it gets much brighter.
Add blue to any shot and it gets much duller.
Click to expand...
However, what the OP was describing was an increase in underexposure when switching from Daylight WB to Cloudy WB, which is adding yellow to the image. My explanation was that this change in WB will have no > noticeable
AAK said:
The difference in the
brightness of the shots can be dramatic, since the wavelengths of
the light have different energies.

Just like an opera singer - the high-notes are -always- louder!! :-)
Click to expand...
Ah, but Blue light has more energy than Yellow. See the contradiction in your arguments?

But more to the point, Digital Magic comes to the rescue again.

Remember the old days when you had to screw on a color balancing filter in order to match the light source temperature to your film type? And you cursed the fact that you lost "speed?" And you had to look through a blue (or other) colored filter the whole time? Ugh. Don't miss those days.

Fortunately now the magic of digital does all the work in-camera! And you don't lose any speed, and your exposure is calculated and matched automatically. Nirvana.

So in short, white balance is not having the effect that the OP describes. It is coming from something else.
AAK said:
R2. we haven't had a good disagreement in ages!!!
Click to expand...
Now 2 in one weekend! Cheers.
R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
AAA Thanks al lot for your replies...

I'm really learning lot from this....Now I understand there is 'nothing wrong' with my H1 :)

Now I understand EV will always show 0EV in manual mode in EXIF. Yesterday only I have switched off date :) , i was in one hill station for w/e and before reading ur post i decided not to have date stamp any further on my photos. As u suggested i'll not use digital zoom any further, thanks ..

I have one question regarding WB. I always get confused whether to use Auto WB or daylight or cloudy. I have not used custom WB till now. As u have correctly mentioned, I have observed that whenever I use Auto WB, most images gets more blue and looks dull (at least in cloudy weather). If I use "daylight" and "clousy" there is no much noticable difference in 2 photos but both look more yellowish, brighter but again not "real" colors as it looks to eye, so photo again looks somewhat different than real and not promising.

So my question here is which WB setting we should use whenever its 1) clear sunny day with sunrays 2) clear day but no sunrays e.g. early Morning/evening time 2) Cloudy weather/Rainy season 4) Night time

When we should use custom WB (I mean WB with Set) ??

Hope to learn more n more from all u experts ...

Thanks again...
Deeps
 
Use a (truly) white piece of paper and set it in the same light as the subject. Fill the screen and set the Custom WB. Shoot until the lighting changes. Alternately, use something like the Expodisk (do a Google search).

For those not as ambitious, just select the closest appropriate WB Preset and shoot. Touch up in Post Processing if necessary. In general, use "Cloudy" for cloudy days, "Sunny" for sunny days. In fact, for all situations, just let your eye decide. The display reflects all WB changes.

I prefer to not use Auto WB just so that the WB is consistent from photo to photo.

Hope this helps some.

Also, here are some links to some basic info on digital photography:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=8438535

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=8100855

You can also do a Google search for basic technique.
R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
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