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Fuji 6900 vs Sony F707 - opinions?

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Michael Canyes

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I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
 
I am no pro here. I replaced my 2 month old f707 with a 6900 a week ago. I am really happy I did. The whole flash photographic part of f707 sucks.
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
 
Michael. Just out of interest, have you been doing much PhotoShop manipulation of your 6900 shots or do you need to have pictures ready to print straight from the camera?

Cheers, James
 
James,

I asume that the file starts as sRGB and convert it to Adobe RGB. If I have the white balance reasonably close, and if the scene is not extremely contrasty, I don't have to do much manipulation. I often try auto levels and just use the results.
Best,
Michael
James Ball said:
Michael. Just out of interest, have you been doing much PhotoShop
manipulation of your 6900 shots or do you need to have pictures
ready to print straight from the camera?

Cheers, James
Click to expand...
 
Michael, I believe there is someone in this forum who sold their Sony 707v for a 6900z because he was bitterely disappointed with it. Also....and I think it was Liz , has owned a string of Sony cameras and in her own words she said ....the more I paid the worst they got !

I had also raised the anger of a number of contributors in the Nikon forum when I commented on a thread involving the poor results of the Nikon5000, that I thought they would not get an unbiased opinion on this, the (nikon5000) from other owners of different brands and in particular people from the Sony forum.

A Sony707v owner replied to me that this was not true as he had been as highly critical of the Sony707v as he had been of other cameras.......that was some statement!

i honestly believe you would not be happy with the Sony707v as it is not a giant leap forward but more of a move sideways.....I would wait fot the next generation of digital cameras as you will not get the improvement you are looking for and you will merely be wasting your money!

If it is the low light thing that appeals to you and shooting with a green colour in darkness than i can only say the reason that Sony has done this is to gain market share with Police Forces and Security agencies where this would be a handy tool for them........but unless you are into spying or voyerism I doubt that you would get much use out of this function.......and after all photography is all about the collection and manipulation of light !
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
 
Eric,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have searched both the Fuji and Sony forums and there are a lot of opinions, but they are only opinions. I am looking for someone who pointed both cameras at an outdoor scene with sunlit and shadow areas, smooth tones and texture and some fine detail, and who carefully compared both 11x14 prints for the differences in each area. Testing sind-by-side is the only way to really tell the difference.
Best,
Michael
eric noack said:
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You are right, it would be better if someone had bought both and tried them side by side for weeks. But, in my opinion of 6900 only owner who was formerly a user of medium format film cameras and very maniac with sharpness, if you use the 6900 at 6mp, fine, with in-camera sharpening set to soft and ISO 100, and then sharpen in Photoshop with some enhancement of contrast, except if you have got a camera with a very bad lens or an out of order light metering or AF, the pictures from your 6900 should be as sharp and noiseless as you could dream, and this up to 16 X 20 (!), while looking really photographic (colors, surfaces).

Now, if you prefer artificial looking pictures, with plastic-like surfaces due to in-camera noise removal and oversharpening and false colors (the green of the 707!) and terrible results with flash, the 707 will make you happier than the 6900.... My objective and neutral two cents....

Jean-Paul
Michael Canyes said:
eric noack said:
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Michael Canyes said:
eric noack said:
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
What you're asking for is very close to impossible. To do this you would have to carry a tripod; lock it in position and either have an adapter to hold 2 cameras or some other method of quickly switching them for still scenes. In a dditionl you would have to have the same ISO, Shutter speed, aperture and the kicker the same lens coverage at the same mm.

Even Phil doesn't try this; the closest he comes is on some of the testing. Phil's testing areas may be the only option. The reason I'm saying this is this has been tried before (with other cameras) and the intent of the photographer has been to try to be fair but frequently have failed.

Above are the facts as I see them.

My opinion follows:

I have yet to see any evidence there is a better camera than the 6900 less expensive than the Fuji S1 which is more than 3X the costs and that does not include a lens. There are many Professional and Semi-Professional Photographers along with manym many very advanced and even less than advanced amateurs using the 6900 with great success (Even Jack Zucker who critizes the 6900 more than anyone gets unbelievable photos from it on a regular basis).

Conclusion:

I don't know what settings you are using: Hard, normal or soft; 3MP or 6MP. Auto, P, SP, A or manual, ISO 100, 200, 400. Are yo doing sports (which), still life, senics, portraits, Architecture, family ... . It appears you are not increasing the contrast or doing any sharpening in a program as PS or PSP. I don't want to sound like I'm chastizing you but please remember that you are now doing your self what you expected the photo lab to do for you with film. If you are not doing that than perhaps it does not matter what camera you use. Because you WILL FAIL to get the best possible photo 80% to 90% of the time. One other possibility is you need to learn some more about photography. If that is so (and I also need to learn more as does everyone else I know at any level) e-mail Robin (Redbreast) and ask for the sites he has found. You will NOT find a better teaching camera than the 6900.

In the end much is opinions even when stated as facts.--RayRJNedimyer
 
RJNedimyer said:
Michael Canyes said:
eric noack said:
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
What you're asking for is very close to impossible. To do this you
would have to carry a tripod; lock it in position and either have
an adapter to hold 2 cameras or some other method of quickly
switching them for still scenes. In a dditionl you would have to
have the same ISO, Shutter speed, aperture and the kicker the same
lens coverage at the same mm.

Even Phil doesn't try this; the closest he comes is on some of the
testing. Phil's testing areas may be the only option. The reason
I'm saying this is this has been tried before (with other cameras)
and the intent of the photographer has been to try to be fair but
frequently have failed.

Above are the facts as I see them.

My opinion follows:
I have yet to see any evidence there is a better camera than the
6900 less expensive than the Fuji S1 which is more than 3X the
costs and that does not include a lens. There are many Professional
and Semi-Professional Photographers along with manym many very
advanced and even less than advanced amateurs using the 6900 with
great success (Even Jack Zucker who critizes the 6900 more than
anyone gets unbelievable photos from it on a regular basis).

Conclusion:
I don't know what settings you are using: Hard, normal or soft; 3MP
or 6MP. Auto, P, SP, A or manual, ISO 100, 200, 400. Are yo doing
sports (which), still life, senics, portraits, Architecture, family
... . It appears you are not increasing the contrast or doing any
sharpening in a program as PS or PSP. I don't want to sound like
I'm chastizing you but please remember that you are now doing your
self what you expected the photo lab to do for you with film. If
you are not doing that than perhaps it does not matter what camera
you use. Because you WILL FAIL to get the best possible photo 80%
to 90% of the time. One other possibility is you need to learn some
more about photography. If that is so (and I also need to learn
more as does everyone else I know at any level) e-mail Robin
(Redbreast) and ask for the sites he has found. You will NOT find
a better teaching camera than the 6900.

In the end much is opinions even when stated as facts.
--
Ray
RJNedimyer
Click to expand...
Ray,

I have been a professional photographer for many years, and now am happily an amatur. I did the test I described between the 6900 and a Canon G1 in about 1 hour. It convinced me that the 600 was better than the Canon. I will shoot with a camera that looks like Donald Duck if the prints are better than the 6900. I have found the same situation in the film world also, everyone has an opinion, but very few have prints.
Best,
Michael
 
Michael, here is my suggestion if you are willing to accept it:

I am a fp6900 owner, but have never tried F707, so i can not give you a first hand comparison of both cameras.

Fuji, as any non-professional camera has it's faults. It is quite possible that F707 is better in some areas where FP6900 is not, however, since you are not a first-time purchaser, it is quite possible that you will waste your time and money and will not get the results you expect to achieve.

What i know for sure, is that today, after taking more than 2000 photos with FP6900 i consistently produce better and better quality pictures (and i don't just talk about composition) than i did when i started. Some of my recent photos when i compare them to my early photos simply amaze me with regard to their quality. The learning curve i had experienced would be true with any camera. If i would have taken photos with EOS D30 half a year ago, and with FP6900 today, i believe today photos to still be better.

So what i suggest is the following:

Instead of trying your luck with another camera and finding out that your results are still not equal to the quality you see on Phil's galleries, post your specific problems here, with picture examples, and people will be able to help you get the best out of your camera.

Some problems may be related to your camera use, some to general photography, many to lighing, some are probably camera faults, but fixable with software, some are real problems.

I believe that only once you eliminated all problems related to your use, your photography, lighting, postprocessing, then you should evaluate again whether you need to change it or not.

Rgrds,
Moshe
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
 
Michael, i now read in other message that you are a professional photographer (unlike me), still, my post stands since digital is different:

1. Digital prosumer cameras have less dynamic range, and are more demanding to good lighting (unlike what you are used to with film)

2. Digital darkroom is different than chemical one, and your experience here may be insufficient.

Rgrds,
Moshe
Moshe Vainer said:
I am a fp6900 owner, but have never tried F707, so i can not give
you a first hand comparison of both cameras.
Fuji, as any non-professional camera has it's faults. It is quite
possible that F707 is better in some areas where FP6900 is not,
however, since you are not a first-time purchaser, it is quite
possible that you will waste your time and money and will not get
the results you expect to achieve.
What i know for sure, is that today, after taking more than 2000
photos with FP6900 i consistently produce better and better quality
pictures (and i don't just talk about composition) than i did when
i started. Some of my recent photos when i compare them to my early
photos simply amaze me with regard to their quality. The learning
curve i had experienced would be true with any camera. If i would
have taken photos with EOS D30 half a year ago, and with FP6900
today, i believe today photos to still be better.

So what i suggest is the following:
Instead of trying your luck with another camera and finding out
that your results are still not equal to the quality you see on
Phil's galleries, post your specific problems here, with picture
examples, and people will be able to help you get the best out of
your camera.
Some problems may be related to your camera use, some to general
photography, many to lighing, some are probably camera faults, but
fixable with software, some are real problems.

I believe that only once you eliminated all problems related to
your use, your photography, lighting, postprocessing, then you
should evaluate again whether you need to change it or not.

Rgrds,
Moshe
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
It would appear from the replies you've received so far, that no one has actually done a side-by-side of the 6900 vs the 707. As an ex-professional you probably have more exacting standards than the rest of us "prosumers", and I wish you luck.

When after a long wait for the technology to evolve, I finally decided that the time was right to enter the digital world (having been shooting with great success with my OM-1 since 1975), I did much web-based research, and offer the following list of sites (in addition to DPREview, of course) should you wish to visit them - in no particular order:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/DIGCAM01.HTM
http://www.megapixel.net/html/issueindex.html
http://www.steves-digicams.com/cameras_dig3.html
http://www.pcphotoreview.com/
http://www.photographyreview.com/Learn ^guides^digicamcrx.aspx
http://www.dcresource.com/

This is meta site of review sites:
http://www.shortcourses.com/mustsee/mustsee.htm

This is a meta-site of model-based review links (not always up to date):
http://www.all-digital-links.com/

It would most instructive to me and I am sure, to many others, if you would eventually let us know what you decided, and why, given your professional pedigree.

BTW here's what MegaPixel said about the Sony F707:

"Based on the F505v, the F707 is a ground breaking camera. Equipped with a 5 megapixel CCD the F707 is also capable of recording infrared images. The inclusion of a noise reduction system, an electronic viewfinder and a new 5X Carl Zeiss lens, places it near the top of the list."

I copied this from their list of the top 50 cameras they reviewed in 2001, and not unsurprisingly, both the 6900 and the 707 are included. The 6900 gets 8 and 8.8 for functionality and photographic qualities respectively, while the 707 scores 7.8 and 9, so there's no significant difference between them in terms of scores.

I quoted the above because of the reference to a "noise-reduction system" (as mentioned in your queston) although as a paid-up member of the 6900 fanatics club, I feel a tad disloyal!
--Regards,Robin [Redbreast]
 
Robin,

Thanks for your reply and for "getting the point." I am after hard info, not opinions gathered from postings and sites. I am taking advantage of Sony's buy now and pay in a few months program and I ordered a 707. As soon as I get a sunny day I will test it and I will find out. Worse, the same, or slightly better is not a reason to give up the 6900, as I do like the way it operates. However, the reviews lead me to believe that it might be worth testing in case I get a WOW! I realize that the reviews put the two cameras close together, but they also take into consideration a lot of different features. I only care what the prints look like, and I am quite happy to put up with quirky features for the best image file.

Thanks for the links, and I will post my results some time in the next few days.
Best,
Michael
Redbreast [UK] said:
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
It would appear from the replies you've received so far, that no
one has actually done a side-by-side of the 6900 vs the 707. As an
ex-professional you probably have more exacting standards than the
rest of us "prosumers", and I wish you luck.

When after a long wait for the technology to evolve, I finally
decided that the time was right to enter the digital world (having
been shooting with great success with my OM-1 since 1975), I did
much web-based research, and offer the following list of sites (in
addition to DPREview, of course) should you wish to visit them - in
no particular order:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/DIGCAM01.HTM
http://www.megapixel.net/html/issueindex.html
http://www.steves-digicams.com/cameras_dig3.html
http://www.pcphotoreview.com/
http://www.photographyreview.com/Learn ^guides^digicamcrx.aspx
http://www.dcresource.com/

This is meta site of review sites:
http://www.shortcourses.com/mustsee/mustsee.htm

This is a meta-site of model-based review links (not always up to
date):
http://www.all-digital-links.com/

It would most instructive to me and I am sure, to many others, if
you would eventually let us know what you decided, and why, given
your professional pedigree.

BTW here's what MegaPixel said about the Sony F707:

"Based on the F505v, the F707 is a ground breaking camera. Equipped
with a 5 megapixel CCD the F707 is also capable of recording
infrared images. The inclusion of a noise reduction system, an
electronic viewfinder and a new 5X Carl Zeiss lens, places it near
the top of the list."

I copied this from their list of the top 50 cameras they reviewed
in 2001, and not unsurprisingly, both the 6900 and the 707 are
included. The 6900 gets 8 and 8.8 for functionality and
photographic qualities respectively, while the 707 scores 7.8 and
9, so there's no significant difference between them in terms of
scores.

I quoted the above because of the reference to a "noise-reduction
system" (as mentioned in your queston) although as a paid-up member
of the 6900 fanatics club, I feel a tad disloyal!

--
Regards,

Robin [Redbreast]
Click to expand...
 
Hi Michael,

I will be able to answer your question but not until after Christmas. I have a 6900 and i bought my wife the f707 (a surprise). I will make 11x14prints on my Epson 1270 and post my opinion. I bought the f707 for my wife due to the low light focusing issues with the 6900 and the hot pixels in night shots. Don't get me wrong, as I love the 6900, i just am willing to see if there are areas where the f707 is superior.

By the way, I have a number of large prints from my 6900 (as big as my epson 1270 will print them) hanging in my office and I consantly get comments from people who can't believe they are from a digital camera. I am anxious to see if the f707 can really improve on that.

Rich G.
Michael Canyes said:
Thanks for the links, and I will post my results some time in the
next few days.
Best,
Michael
Redbreast [UK] said:
Michael Canyes said:
I am thinking of replacing my Fuji 6900 with an F707. I would like
to know if anyone has done this and what real differences there are
in the pictures. I am looking for an improvement in sharpness and
noise in 11x14 prints.
Thanks
Michael
Click to expand...
It would appear from the replies you've received so far, that no
one has actually done a side-by-side of the 6900 vs the 707. As an
ex-professional you probably have more exacting standards than the
rest of us "prosumers", and I wish you luck.

When after a long wait for the technology to evolve, I finally
decided that the time was right to enter the digital world (having
been shooting with great success with my OM-1 since 1975), I did
much web-based research, and offer the following list of sites (in
addition to DPREview, of course) should you wish to visit them - in
no particular order:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/DIGCAM01.HTM
http://www.megapixel.net/html/issueindex.html
http://www.steves-digicams.com/cameras_dig3.html
http://www.pcphotoreview.com/
http://www.photographyreview.com/Learn ^guides^digicamcrx.aspx
http://www.dcresource.com/

This is meta site of review sites:
http://www.shortcourses.com/mustsee/mustsee.htm

This is a meta-site of model-based review links (not always up to
date):
http://www.all-digital-links.com/

It would most instructive to me and I am sure, to many others, if
you would eventually let us know what you decided, and why, given
your professional pedigree.

BTW here's what MegaPixel said about the Sony F707:

"Based on the F505v, the F707 is a ground breaking camera. Equipped
with a 5 megapixel CCD the F707 is also capable of recording
infrared images. The inclusion of a noise reduction system, an
electronic viewfinder and a new 5X Carl Zeiss lens, places it near
the top of the list."

I copied this from their list of the top 50 cameras they reviewed
in 2001, and not unsurprisingly, both the 6900 and the 707 are
included. The 6900 gets 8 and 8.8 for functionality and
photographic qualities respectively, while the 707 scores 7.8 and
9, so there's no significant difference between them in terms of
scores.

I quoted the above because of the reference to a "noise-reduction
system" (as mentioned in your queston) although as a paid-up member
of the 6900 fanatics club, I feel a tad disloyal!

--
Regards,

Robin [Redbreast]
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--RG
 
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