STOP ME before I give away another...

Etrsi_645

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free image!

How do I get out of this rut of giving away freem images and never getting paid. This is getting a little old now. How did you accomplish it?

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Olympus E-500
 
Not sure if this applies to you, but I found the by giving photo's away, I was subconciously stroking my ego: "Wow, this must be great pics, lots of peole want them". Of course the value that people place on something is usually related to what they paid for it.

Sure its nice to give away (or sell at sub-par prices) a photograph, but if you want real validation, sell a photo at full price, stroke your ego, and get paid!!
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Warm regards,
Dad-of-four
 
free image!

How do I get out of this rut of giving away freem images and never
getting paid. This is getting a little old now. How did you
accomplish it?
Now you are stuck. You set the bar yourself. Newbies low ball the pros
and drag down the prices. In doing so they set new lows for themselves
and wonder why they can't make a living? It has gone so far that some have
given their pictures away just to enter a market and find they have trained
their potential clients to expect free work.

Perfect story for newbies trying to enter any field of work. You set the bar, now
that is your problem to get over the next hurdle.

good luck.
 
If you don't put a value on your images, how do you expect others to? I've been in business for over 15 years, and still give clients an occasional "freebie," but only after they have been a good client and paid for my services several times, with more jobs in the pipeline. After doing several jobs at regular rate, I will occasionally surprise a client with a DVD slideshow of the images I've shot for them, or sometimes I'll shoot a few extra photos at no charge after doing a big job. I jokingly tell them they've earned a few "bonus Points," and this is my thanks to them for being a good, loyal client. However, starting off with a client by giving away photos/freebies with hopes of making money from them down the road, is a good way to ruin to a relationship before it develops, keep yourself at poverty level until you ultimately go out of business, and drag down the whole business for everyone else.
 
At least that's what the dot com'ers said in the late 90's. We all know what happened to them in 2000 :-)
free image!

How do I get out of this rut of giving away freem images and never
getting paid. This is getting a little old now. How did you
accomplish it?

--
Olympus E-500
--
----

A slick alternate to google -- http://www.a9.com/ -- be sure to check all all the photo and image search options.
 
You will almost certainly have to wait until next year to start charging. You can't really start in mid-season, unfortunately. Next year you can say that you need to start charging for all the equipment you have invested in.

I can think of two viable options:

1. Carry a rate card, or print one on the back of your business card. If anyone contacts you about buying images, tell them that the cost is printed on the back of the card, and that the rates are the same for everyone.

2. Sell your photos online, via a place like Smugmug, etc. The people can see the photos for free but cannot download them; if they want a print, they will have to order one and they can't negotiate with a computer monitor. It's either worth your asking price to them, or it isn't. If you have a free smugmug account you can't make a profit from the sales, but OTOH the customers aren't getting something for nothing either. Some sites like Walmart and Ritz Camera let you store images in galleries, and they whenever anyone wants to buy a print they can do so and pick it up at their local store and avoid shipping charges.

Best o' luck,

Curtis

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Curtis Clegg
Belvidere, IL

 
I am getting an increasing number of clients who are expecting ridiculous pricing due to this effect. The reason is that people are actually doing it for insane prices. Newbies and students trying to get a break will stoop to making losses on a job to get noticed, problem is, there are so many doing it that noone notices, it just becomes normal. Best way to get noticed is to demand payment, worst case is you dont get ripped off, best case, you work AND get paid for it (imagine that). I just quote a decent price, if they dont want it then, well tough, if I cant get enough work at a price that will keep me sustained, I will just have to get a real job I suppose. You cant make a loss indefineately.

The reality is there are a lot of photogs, a lot of good ones and a lot of starving ones. Contrary to popular beleif it is not just a matter of learning your craft and putting out a shingle. It is very competitive, competing on price will seal your fate within months.
 
What you need to do is shoot commercially viable material. And sell, not to your friends and family, but sell to customers.

But it isn't the well-equipped happy snapper that's the problem. Just as prints have left the realm of the alchemist, so has formulaic studio work. Too many large retailers use studio work to draw in customers. Not just WalMart, there are plenty of major retailers with their own studios - way deep in the bowels of the store - not near the door like WalMart. The whole trip to the studio is one massive sales op. As well as the other mall studios. You don't necessarily have to do everything well, if you can do part of it well and sell cheap.
 
Yeah Jay, that is what this ex-dot.com guy did. Except I was lucky enough to retire at 30. :)
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-bill
 
after reading all the replies, ashamed to check back in on this thread...

just checked my email and found a curious one. someone asking how much for some pix I recently did of him singing live at the local watering hole.

Nobody told me there'd be days like these... strange days indeed...

--
Olympus E-500
 
1) Doing a free gig for a potential customer will rarely get you hired later. In fact, many people will get mad if you do not provide pictures for free.

2) You will rarely be able to raise your pricing with a client, so giving them a cheap intial price means you are stuck there.

3) The key to finding good clients is to find successfull businesses.

4) It is easier to make a profit by cutting your expenses than increasing revenue.

5) Credits in reputable media-magazine, newspapers, advertisements are a vauable source of exposure. Websites don't count.

6) A potential client will often want to see your work more than once-advertisements, photo credits, referals-before hiring a new photographer.

7) You need to define your strengths and understand your market to be successful. You should know who the majority of your potential clients to be able to market to them successfully.
 
Yea, there were a few lucky ones but very few in the big picture. Glad you were one of them. Unfortunately I wasn't and still have to work. I should've been too, but our CEO didn't want to IPO at the boom because he wasn't making money yet. He was an old school guy that thought making money was important for a public company. Sigh.
Yeah Jay, that is what this ex-dot.com guy did. Except I was lucky
enough to retire at 30. :)
--
-bill
--
----

A slick alternate to google -- http://www.a9.com/ -- be sure to check all all the photo and image search options.
 
that if you start giving your images away for free it is extremely hard to change. By giving them away, you are saying they have no value. Why would somebody then start paying for something that has no value?

You can either start climbing out of the hole you dug or continue digging. That hole should have never been dug in the first place.

I hope others read this thread!
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http://www.sportsshooter.com/kweathermon
 
The easiest way to stop yourself is to realise what it has cost you.

Even a basic kit (semi pro body, a decent selection of lenses and a flash) costs you around $90/day to own. If you have lights, more equipment, etc, it may cost you many, many times that.

Give away pictures? You are PAYING people to accept your pictures. If you charged them $90 then you are giving them away. If you charge more than $90 plus your time spent,including planning and computer work afterwads, then you may begin to see SOME profit.

Now - what can you afford to live on?
--
ARS Technical Images and
interpolateTHIS.com
 
I'm just an aspiring pro ..with a damn good day job I aim to keep...

but with my photography gear and experience/knowledge, I tell friends looking for favors...

"Honestly, I cannot afford to charge the batteries, clean the lenses, check the memory cards, pack the gear, and leave my house for anything less than $500. That $500 (minimum) is for my time, talent, and assets. The products will cost on top of that charge for my time and investment in equipment and training."

With the proper valuation of your time and deliverables, you'll earn the friendship of others in the field, rather than the cold stares...(lol)
 
I am just an aspiring pro also---still have the day job, and still learning/slowly aquiring equipment--but my family is not helping me in this dept. I do free work for them and then when other people see it they think I should do them this favor as well. I recently did an all day shoot of my new niece (free, of course...) and also made birth announcements with one of the photos in PS. She mailed out 75 of them and said she has gotten atleast 20 inquiries as to where she had them 'done'---the problem is that all of these people have that "oooh. maybe your sister in law can make mine too" attitude. I don't really feel like photographing a gazillion babies and making announcements for free.....but I will look like a jerk if I say no. hmmph.

-Kate
 
Your exact course of action will probably depend on what you're doing now and where you want to go. The easiest way is to just stop doing anything for free. Barring that, you could let your customer service slide and explain that the cost of what you do is just too much to allow you to give unpaid work priority. Basically, act like an arrogant pro who expects his customers to take whatever they're given and like it, only more politely. Don't ask for money, but imply that it would help. Or you could just deliver substandard products and hope people stop coming back (probably not the best course of action if you want people to eventually pay).

Personally, I like doing this stuff for little or no money because it carries so little obligation. Then again, I deal with people who understand value and would gladly pay more than what I ask for products or will look elsewhere for services that I can't provide well enough/fast enough to meet a deadline. At this point, I'm thrilled to have moved from "work being published without my permission" (coughBostonGlobecough) to "work used with permission but without credit." Sure, it would be nice to have my name attached to all of the posters and pamphlets that will be all over Boston in a couple of weeks, but I think I can live without it (this time at least).

As for pay, well, nobody would be paying for what I do anyway, so it's a matter of doing it for free or not having it done. I think it's worthwhile to document the activities of a world-class fife and drum corps, so I do it. It gives me an excuse to spend a fortune on equipment and I get opportunities to learn how to use it all, sometimes in very challenging conditions. There's also the occasional international travel or premium access to special events.

Of course, I'm not a pro, so this might not be the sort of thing you're interested in. Still, working for free isn't without its benefits if you do it right.
 
I think it would be easier if I was a professional photographer (ie that was my only job and source of income)..as for now I think others just see it as a hobby that I happen to be really good at that they can take advantage of. I will just have to see how the other girls approach me about it....if your brother was a plumber and you needed something fixed certainly he would help you out, but I see what you mean about it not extending to friends of your family.

thanks-- Kate
 

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