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About D-Range Optimizer

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kerecsen

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Technology looks great with the sample picture shown along with video, but Dave at IR could not confirm this as remarkable as stated with the pre-production model. Let's hope it's for real in actual production. Thanks for the interesting link.
 
Amolmd said:
Technology looks great with the sample picture shown along with
video, but Dave at IR could not confirm this as remarkable as
stated with the pre-production model.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that he shot a DR test chart and evaluated that. On a test chart, this technology will do precisely nothing. You need an actual high contrast scene to see some effect. And the effect will not be an increase in dynamic range, but simply a better utilization of the 14 bit RAW datasource to produce a pleasant-looking final 8-bit JPG image.
 
Resembles a little with AGCS (Advanced Gradation Control System) from R1, but is not only histogram based, taking into account the scene arrangement. And is limited to ISO values lower than 400, maybe for not interfering with noise reduction processing.
 
Are yousure that it is applied to RAW files - it was my understanding that it was hard wired for instant Jpeg conversion ?

This seems to be a variation of the up-loadable curves setting that some Nikon cameras use. The success of such a hardware based approach will depend on the reliability of the assessment of the contrast range by the algorithms. A software approach may be slower but would allow more user tweaking.

Keith-C
 
For jpeg shooters, it may suffice as an automated but likely bland substitute for PSCS2 highlights/shadows control. For Raw shooters it probably will mean little, given that they are likely to want to customize the highlight shadow balance, etc, to their 'look'. It may help sell cameras, but not by much I suspect. There is a similar algo available in the R1 that has been pretty much evaluated as fluff--very few users ever mention it or, apparently, use it.
kerecsen said:
Sony's Alpha pages
( http://www.sony.net/Products/dslr/features_2.html ) mention that
the DRO technology is coming from Apical Ltd. A quick googling
later, here is a description on what DRO does:
http://www.ukapical.com/technology_drc.html

From what I can tell, it will not increase the overall dynamic
range of the sensor (as measured by a test chart), but will make
contrasty images look better by applying some special tweakage in
the RAW-> JPG conversion step.
Click to expand...
 
Of course, is based on RAW data, but only affects the jpeg output.
 
perhaps because in RAW+JPEG the calculation power (data processing) would be too big and too difficule to handle efficiently ?
 
Is it applied before or after formation of the RAW file??:)

--
Bernard

AS rocks!
lens reviews and more on dyxum.com!
 
Well well well

IMHO (correct me if I'm wrong but...) I think there is a bit of confusion here !

the DRO and DRO+ optimization (which are great features and real improvement to me...) DO NOT work on RAW files...

they only apply to JPEG files, taken in P (or A or S) modes, with multi-segment measured light....

RAW files (as there name tels it) are note altered by any image processing
 
I'm reading

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Sony-Alpha-DSLR-Release-Interview-with-Mark-Weir-Senior-Product-Manager-for-Digital-SLR-Cameras-at-Sony-Electronics-/Technology--Specifics.htm
And the guy says:

"t doesn’t perform those tasks on a JPEG at all. Dynamic Range Optimization in the camera is performed exclusively on the RAW data, never on the processed data."

And the site i mentioned before says that the feature is disabled in raw or raw+jpg mode. Go figure :(

--
http://www.dyxum.com - the world of the Minolta mount digital SLR
 
... put into the jpeg file.

So it uses all 12 bits for the work.

But ,as you say , the output of the DRO is not stored in the raw file.
--
Cheers
Erland
 
One thing is sure, if they do modify the RAW data before it is stored, then there will be a lot of UNinterest in this feature and the camera for those that shoot RAW predominantly. You couldn't give me one ,if that was the way it handled RAW, unless it could be turned off in a menu.

I am willing to bet that it is for jpeg conversion only.
kiklop_2 said:
I'm reading

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Sony-Alpha-DSLR-Release-Interview-with-Mark-Weir-Senior-Product-Manager-for-Digital-SLR-Cameras-at-Sony-Electronics-/Technology--Specifics.htm
And the guy says:
"t doesn’t perform those tasks on a JPEG at all. Dynamic Range
Optimization in the camera is performed exclusively on the RAW
data, never on the processed data."

And the site i mentioned before says that the feature is disabled
in raw or raw+jpg mode. Go figure :(

--
http://www.dyxum.com - the world of the Minolta mount digital SLR
Click to expand...
 
then this guy is wrong !!!!

read (the source !) here !

http://www.sony.net/Products/dslr/features_2.html#topic6

(and IMHO, it is logical that such a (post) processing only applies to an "output" format such as TIFF or JPEG !

of course, as Erland says, the source on which the processing is done, has to be the "initial" file itself : the RAW output of the sensor !

but again, I'm pretty sure the DRO only applies to JPEG Files !

;-)
 
No fishcatcher, again no !

this "improvement" does not apply to RAW files : only to JPEG files

(that's clear (and somewhat logical !)
 
hdophan said:
No fishcatcher, again no !

this "improvement" does not apply to RAW files : only to JPEG files

(that's clear (and somewhat logical !)
Click to expand...
If you look at my posts I said that I bet it was applied to jpeg only. It would be insane to apply it to RAW!
 
On the Sony site, it says that DRO (at least the advanced mode) only operates in JPEG mode.

So my assumption is that the hardware lies at a low enough level that if it's turned on, it modifies the raw data on its way to the image processor such that there's no way to store the unmodified raw data (likely an implementation limitation rather than an absolute theoretical one). So it operates on raw data, passes the modified raw data to the image processor (ok, ok, the "BIONZ engine" ... I feel foolish even typing that ;) and then saves the JPEG. Makes sense, as the raw data is 12-bit per pixel while the JPEG is 24 (8 bits * 3 colors) ... why bother to calculate brightness from RGB values when the raw value is a brightness value ?

I'd be tempted to try it for casual stuff, but right now, I never shoot JPEG only ... even if I don't use raw files for given images ... so I don't know whether I'd take advantage of this or not. Sounds like it has a lot of potential for those casual snaps, though !
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
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