F10 vs. TZ1. I am a first time DC buyer, and need one good (inexpensive, amateur)

Camera. The two cameras that look good to me, based on readings reviews of cameras in my price range, are the FugiFilm Finepix F10 (DP review recommends) and the Panasonic DMC-TZ1 (NYTimes recommends).

I am looking for something that is just good quality and value for the money, I don’t care about looks or weight except that I care how it feels in my hand. I am used to good old film in a big camera (Panasonic seems good on this – I haven’t been able to find the fugi in a store to test, but it looks small).

I also think the speed of the shutter is important, since I am used to instant picture taking. (Fugi seems good on this).

But honestly, I can’t figure out how to decide between these two cameras, since they have different strengths.

Does anybody have any opinions on comparing these two and choosing? Anything would help.

I might wait for the F30, except I am leaving the country for 7 months on June 5. And that is what I need the camera for.

I will be taking pictures at wedding-type events, indoor/outdoor, day/night, I am not sure yet. I am no pro, but I will have time to figure out how the camera works, just don't have money for a real quality camera. ALL of the shots posted in these threads look terrific to me.

Thanks in advance

I have Fuji F10 and compared to specs for TZ1, the F10 has usable ISO 1600, which will open your eyes to the delights of indoor photography without the artifiicial flash illumination. But, if you have time, wait for the soon to be released (June) F30 which is improved over the F10.
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Russell
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/russ

Thanks very much Russ.

Unfortunately I can't wait for the F30

But I have another burning question - what is all this talk about low-light capabilities? How low of light are people talking about? How important is it in terms of camera performance?

That, for F11/30, is the very choice many are pondering. It's big zoom and great images in good light versus small zoom and great images in lower light.

Just to make your choice harder, if I were going for 7 months, I'd take my camera -- a Fuji S5200 --same zoom as Tizzy and good in low light, too (though not to degree of F11 or 30). Splits the difference for me, nicely, and has the plus of using AA batteries.

Price is about same or a little less than your candidates, so a better value than either, in my mind. Of course, there's the issue of size...

Good luck on your choice.
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Tim

That "for" of course should have been or.

Also might have added the choice is so tough that some, with less financial constraint, choose not to make it and buy both.

Tim39 said:

That, for F11/30, is the very choice many are pondering. It's big
zoom and great images in good light versus small zoom and great
images in lower light.

Just to make your choice harder, if I were going for 7 months, I'd
take my camera -- a Fuji S5200 --same zoom as Tizzy and good in low
light, too (though not to degree of F11 or 30). Splits the
difference for me, nicely, and has the plus of using AA batteries.

Price is about same or a little less than your candidates, so a
better value than either, in my mind. Of course, there's the issue
of size...

Good luck on your choice.
--
Tim

Click to expand...

--
Tim

How about a compromise camera?

The Ricoh Caplio R4...

28mm wide angle lens
Image Stabilization
7X Zoom
tiny form factor

It won't give you the 10X zoom of the Tizzy (TZ1) or the low light capability of the Fuji, but it will give a fairly decent dose of each.

I have the F10 (now broke) and the TZ1. I will be returning the TZ1. I mainly bought the TZ1 for its supposed excellent video abilities (10X optical zoom in video, good in low light for video, etc). What I found was that indoors, the TZ1's videos were horribly muddy and all fine detail was gone. The videos I've seen online have all been outdoors, but I can tell you that I was sorely disappointed at the indoor videos of the TZ1. Even though they were fairly bright in dim lighting, they looked as if they were almost half the resolution. It was nice to be able to use optical zoom in video, but mine is going back. Every other camera I’ve tested (F10, S80, S2IS) had a much better video mode.

Photo wise, Panasonic still has a long way to go as far as noise in anything above 100 ISO. The image stabilization helps, but you will probably be using flash indoors. If you don’t mind that, the photos are ok and outdoors the zoom can really bring you close to your subject.

My brother has a Canon SD700IS and I would recommend that above the TZ1 by a mile. Much better overall except it doesn't have the 10X zoom and can’t zoom during video (like most digital cameras).

-vissa

amcc said:

Thanks very much Russ.

Unfortunately I can't wait for the F30

But I have another burning question - what is all this talk about
low-light capabilities? How low of light are people talking about?
How important is it in terms of camera performance?

Click to expand...

First of all, it allows very short shutter times, which prevents blur from hand shake or subject motioin.
Second, it allows flash-less operation indoors.

This image was taken at 1/100 second with two 60 watt lamps in the ceiling fixture as the only illumination. The automatic white balance isn't too good in this image, but it's usuallly quite good.



You can see other low light images at my galleries, URL below, but I can't provide info as to the wattage of the lighting. Suffice it to say, in restaurants, I never use flash taking pix of my family and the results look briighter than the actual scene.

Did you ever use ISO 1600 film? :> )
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Russell
Galleries at http://www.pbase.com/russ

And if I had to choose 1, it would be the TZ1.

For what you want to do, and since size isn't important, I'd look at the Canon A610 or A700. Good image quality and manual controls.

Damn shame Tizzy turned out to be such a fair weather friend. But when the weather is fair, she has produced some awesome images.

Here's what I don't get about the TZ1 (and other Panny) owners: By the very shots they post, they've proved they've got good photographers in their ranks.

So what do these good photographers do when the light dims?

Does all the taste and judgment they've shown go out the window and they put up with stuff you and I wouldn't wipe our shoes with? Do they all pull out another camera (Fuji, Canon) and shoot low-light pix they never show or even talk about?

It's a big fat mystery to me, a seemingly collosal contradiction.

Once I need to go beyond 400, I don't mind shooting with flash indoors. Then again, I find I don't do much indoor stuff.

Have to agree that ISO beyond 100 is Panny's "dirty little secret." But when (not if) they get that fixed, look out. Meanwhile, I do admire Canon. Haven't owned one myself, but thought it was best cam I could buy for my daughter (who isn't "into" photography) and she produces great images those infrequent times she picks up the cam. By the way, the one I gave her broke and she promptly bought the next one up.

vissa said:

I have the F10 (now broke) and the TZ1. I will be returning the
TZ1. I mainly bought the TZ1 for its supposed excellent video
abilities (10X optical zoom in video, good in low light for video,
etc). What I found was that indoors, the TZ1's videos were
horribly muddy and all fine detail was gone. The videos I've seen
online have all been outdoors, but I can tell you that I was sorely
disappointed at the indoor videos of the TZ1. Even though they
were fairly bright in dim lighting, they looked as if they were
almost half the resolution. It was nice to be able to use optical
zoom in video, but mine is going back. Every other camera I’ve
tested (F10, S80, S2IS) had a much better video mode.

Photo wise, Panasonic still has a long way to go as far as noise in
anything above 100 ISO. The image stabilization helps, but you
will probably be using flash indoors. If you don’t mind that, the
photos are ok and outdoors the zoom can really bring you close to
your subject.

My brother has a Canon SD700IS and I would recommend that above the
TZ1 by a mile. Much better overall except it doesn't have the 10X
zoom and can’t zoom during video (like most digital cameras).

-vissa

Click to expand...

--
Tim

I understand there's a little problem with the R4 at the moment, that hopefully Ricoh will resolve quickly. Beyond that, I think the R4 could be a real player in the U.S. market, if they only had dealers and a strong marketing campaign. If they could ever get that thing into Walmart, or even Circuit City and Best Buy, after of course adding VGA video, I think it could gain a decent following.
--
Tim

This isn't indoors, but hand-held at ISO 400. Do you think the TZ1 could duplicate?



--
Tim

wow that is so beautiful. is that with your F10?

Thank you for your further information. Actually, I never did use ISO 1600 film. But after looking at some more photos, I get what the big deal is, these photos are beautiful. So, I tried to buy an F10 quick, but adorama is closed down. I am going to try to find the other fugi you mentioned in stores. I don't get why the stores I am going to aren't carrying fugi cameras.

Anyone know where to get them in-store?

Thank you so much for this info, Tim. I am going to look for some Fugi cameras asap.

I'd have to go with the F10 based on image quality, which is much higher than the TZ1.

Have you already decided?

My family owns two digicams: F10 and TZ1. We just got the TZ1 four days ago, and I don't use either camera; they belong to my teen daughters. Nonetheless, if you're willing to do a bit of searching, in the past 10 days I've posted about the choice in two or three posts in the Panasonic forum.
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Paul S. in Maryland

I have TZ1 would recommend something other than this camera for indoor pics. You can adjust iso shutter speed white balance and exposure but that is all on the TZ1. Very difficult to get the right setup at the perfect time . Just my 2 cents. But Outside is awesome with this camera and the 10x is to die for witha slip in pocket camera .

Wow, that was quite a turnaround. Good for you that you have both.

I ended up deciding based on image quality, andthe very nice indoor pictures without flash that people have been posting on here - I never used High-ISO film before, but these photos are just stunning, and I would like to be able to do that. So, I decided on the F10.

Unfortunately, I tried to get the F10, but it isn't available locally.

I think I am going to go to Ritz Cameras where they sell the S5200 which Tim (above) recommends. It is a compromise camera, with not quite as good low-light capabilities, but with 10x zoom (but no IS).

First I will call Walmart to see if they have F10, but I doubt it, it seems to be off the shelves.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&thread=18586673
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Antara
antara.smugmug.com