DMC-LX1

Hi,

First time to the Panasonic forum and looking for some help please! I normally use a digital SLR (Canon 20D with numerous lenses) but am travelling overseas to Europe for 5 weeks with my wife and kids (4 & 6) and want something that will provide good 'snaps' but also give me good landscape capability.

I took a look at the LX1 yesterday and it looked fantastic, lovely feel and function but I was very disappointed to read the review here about the noise problems and wondered what people's thoughts were on this for everyday shooting. With my SLR I normally shoot on 200-400 ISO but don't have the luxury of image stabilisation on any of my lenses. Is noise a real problem for everyday shooting? Does the flash provide enough power for night time snaps to avoid using high ISO and risk additional noise? I'm also considering the new Canon Powershot 700 IS but really looking at reasons to stay with the LX1.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Paul

Paul, I use a Pentax *istDS at ISO200/400 routinely and higher when needed. I also have a LX1 which I use on ISO80 - not even 100 - but am very happy with the results.

The lens is superb, by any standards. The camera handles well for such a small device, and is reasonably quick. I have no real complaints.

Noise is mainly in the blue channel, and in-camera JPEGs show it more than raw files converted with a good raw converter (I use Silkypix). The LX1 is a "photographer's camera", it responds well to sensible usage but it copes fairly well as a P&S in "idiot mode" too, ideal for your intended use.

I don't much use flash, but it works as well - or maybe a little better - than similar tiny in-camera flashes.

--
John Bean

PAW 2006 Week 20:



Iindex page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com
Latest walkabout (4 April): http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/1348582

It's basically a iso 100/80 camera; above that the chroma noise could be a problem; so if you shoot at higher isos then ignore the rest...
why get it?

I shoot w a E1 but like you i don't carry that heavy sucker around everywhere; besides it doesn't have the 16:9 format

the LX1 i bought for just 1 purpose: to shoot mainly at wide 28mm + 16:9 and for that it does very well

Details are excellent, colors a bit on the saturated side but great for landscapes

the pixel quality is not as good as the E1 since it's much smaller but for web and small prints, you 'll be pleased
ergo and build are nothing to complain about and the lens is a jewel

like all LCD cams, you'll struggle in bright light so i wish it had an OVF like the canons just for those occasions

I'm very pleased w the camera for there's no other alternative in the market right now

use a tripod if you could (like i do) , and you won't even have to worry about noise
check out my many image postings on this forum and see for yourself
good luck to you
cheers, ;-))

Hello Paul: I just saw your post and decided to write. Hopefully, I can help you make a decision. First of all, you fit the profile of a lot of us - looking for something that is a good all around camera, that is light and can easily fit into your pocket or in a very small case. I travel abroad for business and pleasure. I always take my big cameras and lenses with me, but I don't always tote them around when I really want to relax or site see. Therefore, the demands are great for such an all-purpose camera.

I shoot RAW 90 percent of the time, so I am severely limited. The LX1 gives you that option. That is the first thing you should consider. Display screens are hard to see in bright sunlight - viewfinders help you in this regard. Composing is important. The LX1 does not have a viewfinder. If you go into low light areas, like churches for instance, you need good, high ISO performance. The LX1 falls severely short in this area. If you take a lot of indoor flash pictures, the LX1 does a good job at close range. After 8-10 feet, the pictures are unusable because of high noise levels. If you take landscapes, the LX1 is as good as they come because the lens is so good. I feel the JPEG 'in camera' color levels are inaccurate, which you can fix later on your computer. Cyan will have to be adjusted 80 percent of the time. The colors are very reminiscent of the Sony 707, which were corrected in the Sony 717. Macro is good because of the lens on the LX1. Image stabilization is a must for these small cameras. You and your whole family will need this option, especially when you take pictures of churches indoors without flash. Even outdoors, the feature comes in handy. The LX1 has it. Wide angle is good on the LXI, as has been stated.

Having said all this, most of the Canons give you good results, as well. If you are only a JPEG shooter, then there are several good cameras for you. You have a wealth of information to sift through on this site for finding a good camera. I recommend highly the Canon SD 700 IS. It does not shoot RAW, but it gives all around good performance in the areas discussed above. It has a viewfinder, which I like. I consider it a very balanced camera. Even the movie mode is good. Try to stay in the 6.0 million effective pixel level or higher.

In short, unfortunately there is no one perfect 'point and shoot' camera out there. I am a professional photographer, so my demands are high. Someone will come out with a shooter's camera someday - I am afraid marketing people and bottom liners are interfering with my wishes. Every camera owner takes pride in their choice in choosing a camera. We all learn to work around the deficiencies and concentrate on the positives. So, passionate comments come forth in all the forums and rightfully so. We learn to compromise in the 'point and shoot' digital world.

I hope this helps you. I did not mention size, but the LX1 and the Canon 700 IS work really well. I only addressed these two cameras since you mentioned them. Whichever camera you choose, work with it a lot before you go on your trip. Get to know its strengths and its weaknesses. Your results will be substantially better. Good luck and enjoy being with your family!

I have to fully agree with the previous post.

Good optics, quick response,full control of the camera , raw mode and very good build quality contra noise and not allways accurate colors( especially green ), sometimes red cast in jpeg mode ( in normal settings ).

The camera's raw mode is supported by Adobe Raw and Rawshooter ( beside others ).

May Be, I would consider a Canon today or the OLY SP-series which give you full control, raw mode, good colors, good noise control until ISO400 on SP320, but slow operation, full plastic body, problems with NiMH batteries, no IS, very cheap.

Jacques

D200, D70, Oly8080, OlySP320, FujiF10, LX1

Hi Paul,

I have a Nikon D1x with a full range of lenses and recently bought an FX01 for an upcoming trip to Athens. I decided I wanted ultra portability and value for money over manual controls (and was put off seriously considering the LX1 due to the noise about noise on phil's detailed review)

I was very pleasantly surprised by the usability and image quality of this ultra compact camera. It doesn't offer RAW, but it is even more convenient than the LX1 (wear it on a cord around your neck all day long).

You may be more of a purist than I was, and put higher emphasis on RAW and manual controls over portability, but if not then certainly consider the FX01 : here's a face to face comparison...

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=1&ma1=60&mo1=210&p1=1083&ma2=60&mo2=175&p2=801&ph=16

Hope that helps...

Kind Regards

Brian

crowep said:

Hi,

First time to the Panasonic forum and looking for some help please!
I normally use a digital SLR (Canon 20D with numerous lenses) but
am travelling overseas to Europe for 5 weeks with my wife and kids
(4 & 6) and want something that will provide good 'snaps' but also
give me good landscape capability.

I took a look at the LX1 yesterday and it looked fantastic, lovely
feel and function but I was very disappointed to read the review
here about the noise problems and wondered what people's thoughts
were on this for everyday shooting. With my SLR I normally shoot on
200-400 ISO but don't have the luxury of image stabilisation on any
of my lenses. Is noise a real problem for everyday shooting? Does
the flash provide enough power for night time snaps to avoid using
high ISO and risk additional noise? I'm also considering the new
Canon Powershot 700 IS but really looking at reasons to stay with
the LX1.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Paul

Click to expand...

--
http://www.brianmosley.info

Hi,

Iso 80 i 100 is ok when RAW developed by Adobe Camera RAW plug-in,however noise is visible (free download of the current upgrade with LX1 data available online if you have CS2 or Elements).To obtain best results apply Noise Ninja.

For Iso 200 Noise Ninja is in my opinion necessary to obtain decent results.Iso 400 - better not use it (noise very strong,chroma noise a real disaster,although this can also be cured to some extent by Ninja)

Try to avoid photographing objects with deep shadows ,cause noise is especially high there.

Besides LX1 is a superb camera.Nice,well built with superb,sharp lens and a real panorama option.Anti-shake freally works (2-3f stops).

As an owner of 7 diffrent digital cameras (full frame DSLRs included),I shall say that I love LX-1.
--
shape'n'colour

You may want to check theis review over at imagingresource:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/LX1/LX1A.HTM

Also do check out Sean Reids review on the LX1 at reidreviews.com (there's a small subscription fee).

Cheers

HarjTT

: o )>

Hi all,

Many thanks for your very constructive and useful comments. Just by chance I called my local camera shop today to enquire about the LX1 and they said they didn't have any in stock but were willing to sell me the Leica D-Lux 2 for almost the same price. I checked the Leica price around town and it seemed fairly decent so I picked one up. Will check it out over the weekend and decide whether I want to hang on to it or swap it for something else. So far the pictures of the kids at home this evening have looked cracking on the LCD, keen to upload the RAW pictures tomorrow and see what they look like on the PC. Will keep you updated.

Many thanks again to all who responded.
--
Paul

There's been some very sophisticated and detailed comments so far. I agree with much of what has been said.

In my opinion many other compact cameras trade varying amounts of subtle, low contrast details away to achieve lower noise. With the LX1 much of this detail remains, allowing you to decide WHAT is noise and WHERE and IF you want to remove it. The LX1's lens is very good and yields a lot of detail right into the corners of the frame.

When I'm travelling, and can't download images from my card, I generally shoot in JPEG with all the picture adjustment settings set to low. I reserve the very large RAW files for very low lighting or very contrasty scenes. I've posted some full size, straight-out-of-the-camera JPEGs on my PBase site:

http://www.pbase.com/viztyger/image/53275919/original

and this low light, 2.5 second exposure:
http://www.pbase.com/viztyger/image/58779439/original

Like all compact cameras, the LX1 struggles with moving subjects in low light. In a tight situation, I very occasionally use ISO 200. Most of the time I have it locked at ISO 80.

You will also find that the LX1 has intuitive and well thought out controls. Changing most settings is quick and straight forward. Although not as versatile as an OVF, the screen is nontheless sharper and brighter than those found on many other cameras - and, for accurate framing, it does show 100% of the scene.

But the best thing about the LX1 is composing photos in the 16:9 mode. It seems to make me frame subjects in new and unusual ways.

Good luck with your decision.

Björn

http://www.pbase.com/viztyger

I truely enjoyed the LX1 more than any other camera! The noise issue has been overstated and blown out of proportion.

http://www.lens-scape.com/article/lx1-gallery.htm

The LX1 and D-Lux 2 is not discontinued. They have either dropped this product totally or introducing a new version very soon.

In order to avoid high ISO, you have to slow the shutter. From the gallery, I can't say the motion blur is artistic. It's too much and making me sick. Nevertheless, as a daytime camera, LX1 is what I would get to complement a dSLR because it's true 16:9 and OIS. The other good choice is Fujifilm F30. The lens may not up to the Leica standard, but it's superb low light performance for a small camera is a great party cam.

Hi weekh,

Can you pls clarify, do you believe these models are no longer sold or about to be stopped?

Many thanks,
Paul

weekh said:

I truely enjoyed the LX1 more than any other camera! The noise
issue has been overstated and blown out of proportion.

http://www.lens-scape.com/article/lx1-gallery.htm

The LX1 and D-Lux 2 is not discontinued. They have either dropped
this product totally or introducing a new version very soon.

Click to expand...

--
Paul

I've an official mail from Leica that they have discontinued D Lux 2 but it is still available for sale.

As for LX1, people from different parts of the world have confirmed that it is now out of production. Some stores do not carry it any more.

but any word on a follow on?

could there be only 1 use (iteration) of this chassis??

--
bryan (pics @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more @ http://www.netstuff.org ) ~

Hi all,

Just a quick update on my final decision here. Decided to hang on to the Leica D-Lux 2, have spent the last week taking pictures (between 200-300) of just about everything - outdoors, fill flash, indoors, little one's 6th birthday etc.

I am very impressed with my choice. Whilst I do agree that noise out of the box is high (even at ISO 80), a quick run through noise ninja in CS2 (I always shoot RAW) fixes them up fantastically. I am extremely impressed with the colour and sharpness (even compared to my Canon 20D and various L lenses). I have printed out a number of photos to A4 and they look great. Given I only print or work on the RAW files, I have set the jpeg settings to high noise reduction which is fine for quickly displaying pictures on the TV for example (and in RAW mode the camera saves both the RAW file and a jpeg standard file at the same time).

Many thanks to all that responded. I continue to be impressed (and grateful) for the time people spend in offering advice and responding to questions.

Thanks again.
--
Paul

Does this cam have autobracket on exposure?

How do you deal with bright sunlight on LCD screen, I understand it brightens up but is this enough?

Hollie

Yes you can auto bracket AE, plus or minus 1/3EV-1EV step, 3 frames. I haven't found the LCD to be a problem so far. Yes the screen can be brightened up, although haven't had it long enough to work out whether that's useful or not. Would seem to be.

Cheers,
--
Paul

If you use RAW mode for your files you cannot auto-bracket.
--
ELTY