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My 300D Died Today

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Mark Goergen

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On my way to Estes Park, my 300D died today just before I got to the mountains. I was taking pictures of some chipmunks and finally looked at the histogram, only to see a mostly black image. The small flap on the back of the mirror doesn't close onto the mirror and gets in the way of 80% of the picture. Autofocus doesn't work either.

I have about 29,000 actuations and am 6 months out of warranty (it's only a year, right?)

Hopefully, Canon will look at it and charge me, well nothing would be nice. Hey, a guy can dream!

If it gets more than a couple hundred bucks, I'll have to consider a 30D or 20D.

Mark Goergen
 
Happened to me after 16.000 shots. The pin that guides the secondary mirror (used for focusing) breaks too easily. (I have looked in the camera chamber recently and I believe the replacement pin is metal.)

The result should be that if the mirror stays down you get indeed a mostly black image, but autofocus should still work fine. You can flip up the mirror manually so you can take whole images, but then you can only use manual focus.

Mine was repaired under extended warranty, but I hear others are paying in the order of $200. Nobody has ever reported a second failure of this kind.

There are also some posts about a diy repair using a thumbtack. That's what I would attempt when mine would break again out of warranty.
Mark Goergen said:
On my way to Estes Park, my 300D died today just before I got to
the mountains. I was taking pictures of some chipmunks and finally
looked at the histogram, only to see a mostly black image. The
small flap on the back of the mirror doesn't close onto the mirror
and gets in the way of 80% of the picture. Autofocus doesn't work
either.

I have about 29,000 actuations and am 6 months out of warranty
(it's only a year, right?)

Hopefully, Canon will look at it and charge me, well nothing would
be nice. Hey, a guy can dream!

If it gets more than a couple hundred bucks, I'll have to consider
a 30D or 20D.

Mark Goergen
Click to expand...
--

Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 21.000 shots) and now also the Fuji F11.
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
 
Mine (300D) is still chugging along after over 25,000 pics.
We'd see a bunch more complaints here Paul, if so.

Female Eastern Bluebird taken today in raw...



Ubilam.
==============
Paul De Bra said:
Mark Goergen said:
On my way to Estes Park, my 300D died today just before I got to
the mountains. I was taking pictures of some chipmunks and finally
looked at the histogram, only to see a mostly black image. The
small flap on the back of the mirror doesn't close onto the mirror
and gets in the way of 80% of the picture. Autofocus doesn't work
either.

I have about 29,000 actuations and am 6 months out of warranty
(it's only a year, right?)

Hopefully, Canon will look at it and charge me, well nothing would
be nice. Hey, a guy can dream!

If it gets more than a couple hundred bucks, I'll have to consider
a 30D or 20D.

Mark Goergen
Click to expand...
--
Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 21.000 shots) and
now also the Fuji F11.
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
Click to expand...
 
Mark Goergen said:
On my way to Estes Park, my 300D died today just before I got to
the mountains. I was taking pictures of some chipmunks and finally
looked at the histogram, only to see a mostly black image. The
small flap on the back of the mirror doesn't close onto the mirror
and gets in the way of 80% of the picture. Autofocus doesn't work
either.

I have about 29,000 actuations and am 6 months out of warranty
(it's only a year, right?)

Hopefully, Canon will look at it and charge me, well nothing would
be nice. Hey, a guy can dream!

If it gets more than a couple hundred bucks, I'll have to consider
a 30D or 20D.

Mark Goergen
Click to expand...
+++++++++++++++

Post's like these make me think... hmmmm?.

The 300D is way out of warranty.
You can dream.
 
It is a common failure that has been reported here many times. What I mean by that is that when a failure is reported it is often the mirror assembly failure. I'm not saying that there are many failures but this appears the most common one.

"Secondary mirror" has 245 hits on this site. Mirror assembly has 122 hits... Probably not all reports of this failure, but it's a common subject.

And it also appears to be typical for the 300D as the 350D has been on the market for more than long enough to see the same failure being reported if it were still an issue. But it does not seem to be a problem on the 350D at all.

The problem is that the secondary mirror is guided by a plastic pin. I believe that upon repair a metal pin is used instead, thus making the mechanism much stronger. And that explains why nobody has reported this failure occurring a second time.
Ubilam said:
Female Eastern Bluebird taken today in raw...



Ubilam.
==============
Paul De Bra said:
Mark Goergen said:
On my way to Estes Park, my 300D died today just before I got to
the mountains. I was taking pictures of some chipmunks and finally
looked at the histogram, only to see a mostly black image. The
small flap on the back of the mirror doesn't close onto the mirror
and gets in the way of 80% of the picture. Autofocus doesn't work
either.

I have about 29,000 actuations and am 6 months out of warranty
(it's only a year, right?)

Hopefully, Canon will look at it and charge me, well nothing would
be nice. Hey, a guy can dream!

If it gets more than a couple hundred bucks, I'll have to consider
a 30D or 20D.

Mark Goergen
Click to expand...
--
Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 21.000 shots) and
now also the Fuji F11.
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 21.000 shots) and now also the Fuji F11.
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
 
For those who have had this problem, where did you send/take it to get repaired?

I hadn't mentioned the worst part of this episode - I had to use a Kodak disposable camera to take pictures 15 feet from a moose and 35 feet from a half dozen elk, not to mention the fantastic mountain scenery.

Thanks for all of your responses.

Mark Goergen
 
Paul De Bra said:
It is a common failure that has been reported here many times.
What I mean by that is that when a failure is reported it is often
the mirror assembly failure. I'm not saying that there are many
failures but this appears the most common one.
Click to expand...
OK.
Considering the vast amount of 300D's sold, its still a minor problem,
right?
Paul De Bra said:
And it also appears to be typical for the 300D as the 350D has been
on the market for more than long enough to see the same failure
being reported if it were still an issue. But it does not seem to
be a problem on the 350D at all.
Click to expand...
Well, I can't speak for the XT... but I guess I was blessed with an
exceptionally fantastic 300D Rebel not built on a Friday ;-).
Paul De Bra said:
The problem is that the secondary mirror is guided by a plastic
pin. I believe that upon repair a metal pin is used instead, thus
making the mechanism much stronger. And that explains why nobody
has reported this failure occurring a second time.
Click to expand...
Amazing "insight" to the pin problem, Paul.

I'm moving up to the 30D (or maybe 5D) very soon.
My 300D has been a rock-solid camera since day 1 here and
never needed a repair even after almost 30,000 pics.

Ubilam.
================
Paul De Bra said:
Ubilam said:
Female Eastern Bluebird taken today in raw...



Ubilam.
==============
Paul De Bra said:
Happened to me after 16.000 shots. The pin that guides the
secondary mirror (used for focusing) breaks too easily. (I have
looked in the camera chamber recently and I believe the replacement
pin is metal.)
The result should be that if the mirror stays down you get indeed a
mostly black image, but autofocus should still work fine. You can
flip up the mirror manually so you can take whole images, but then
you can only use manual focus.
Mine was repaired under extended warranty, but I hear others are
paying in the order of $200. Nobody has ever reported a second
failure of this kind.
There are also some posts about a diy repair using a thumbtack.
That's what I would attempt when mine would break again out of
warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Ubilam said:
...
OK.
Considering the vast amount of 300D's sold, its still a minor problem,
right?
Click to expand...
Depends on your definition of "minor", I guess. My understanding is that it is sure to go at some point.

With digital cameras the marginal expense of an image is zero, whereas with film the marginal cost is / was affected by the cost of the film & of development; thus digital cameras take many more shots and failures like this are more noticeable.

I'm sure that if you owned a film camera & the shutter failed after 10 or 15 years you'd shrug & say "fair enough, I've had good use out of it" but in 10 or 15 years the typical user might actually take far fewer than than the 16,000 - 25,000 shots reported here for digital rebels.

Having read posts here every week about a failures, I'd be quite concerned about the possibility if I owned a 300D with over 15,000 shots on it - I'd be worrying and thinking about selling it before it went!!

To address Mr De Bra for a moment, I didn't realise that the original pin was plastic & the replacement metal - I was sure I'd read at least once of the shutter failing a second time, but clearly it's not so common as the first failure. In any case, $200 / 20,000 shots is.... erm... not very many dollars per shot.

Stroller.

--
I wish I spent as much time taking photos as I do on here
but I'm better at remembering lens specifications than I am at capturing images.
 
I purchased extended warranty through Konijnenberg (a well known dutch store) and sent the camera to them for repair. I presume that a Canon service facility in the Netherlands performed the repair.
Mark Goergen said:
For those who have had this problem, where did you send/take it to
get repaired?

I hadn't mentioned the worst part of this episode - I had to use a
Kodak disposable camera to take pictures 15 feet from a moose and
35 feet from a half dozen elk, not to mention the fantastic
mountain scenery.

Thanks for all of your responses.

Mark Goergen
Click to expand...
--

Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 21.000 shots) and now also the Fuji F11.
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
 
$200 seems like a lot of cash for a 'simple' repair. I just barely broke 3,000 actuations (yeah I don't get out too much) but if I were in those shoes, I'd probably sell the camera to someone who'd attempt the thumbtack trick and buy a 350D. There seems to be way too many features that I'd personally benefit from for another $300.

Heck, a used 10D (I'm looking at burst capability) also in the price range.
--
Canon EOS 300D
Canon BG-E1 Grip
Canon 18-55 Kit Lens
Canon 50 1.8
Sigma 70-300 APO
 
Canon (at least in the US) charges a basic flat rate (minimum rate) for repairs - its about $180 or so - so I think this is covered by that (after all a metal pin won't cost them much !)

Charging something minimum is accepted practice here -- every repair store does that - they call it various names though ("trip fee" comes to mind -- for repairs done in your home)

Whether to do the repair or buy new depends on how much cash you have to spare AND if this camera meets your needs .... if I'm on a budget, I'd rather repair it because no one has reported a 2nd failure. So $200 would give you back a usable camera.
I don't disagree with your logic either - upgrading is good for the soul :) :)
k1n3t1k said:
$200 seems like a lot of cash for a 'simple' repair. I just barely
broke 3,000 actuations (yeah I don't get out too much) but if I
were in those shoes, I'd probably sell the camera to someone who'd
attempt the thumbtack trick and buy a 350D. There seems to be way
too many features that I'd personally benefit from for another $300.

Heck, a used 10D (I'm looking at burst capability) also in the
price range.
--
Canon EOS 300D
Canon BG-E1 Grip
Canon 18-55 Kit Lens
Canon 50 1.8
Sigma 70-300 APO
Click to expand...
 
To repair or replace. I gave this quite a bit of thought on the flight home. Here's my thought process:

If it could be fixed for a couple hundred I'd just get it done. If it were more than that, I was already charting my course. My long term goal is to have 1DsMkII capabilities in about three years. With an 18 month refresh cycle, we should see the 1DsMkII replacement this fall, and then again in spring 08. Similarly, we should see the 5D replacement in spring 07 and then again in fall 08 (all conjecture, I know). If I got the 30D or a 20D now, it could be my backup body in the long term. The cheapest route would be a used 300D, which would be fine, since I have the battery grip and could probably get back in the game for $400 or so.

It's off to Canon tomorrow. I'm still holding out hope that they'll decide that a fine chap like me should get it fixed for free. Yep - still dreaming!

Thanks to all for your comments.

Mark Goergen
 
What sucks about it - is its a known problem, a design shortcoming, and Canon is not stepping up to the plate and saying hey... on THAT problem we'll offer an extended warranty or offer repairs for a smaller dollar amount, or give you a coupon worth a certain amount when you buy an accessorie (high profit for them), or whatever. They treat every instance as if its the first time they've ever seen the problem. Yet they have a nice metal part to replace the plastic one that sucked to begin with. Funny how that works out. Sorta stings more than the wallet - it stings the pride as well.

That being said, the problem does not re-occur, and that seems to be the only real shortcoming of the camera.

Who really knows how long the camera will last after that... could go 50,000 shots or more.

Canon needs to start thinking like digital photographers think. That is, they (we) tend to take many more shots for whatever the reason (time, cost, interest, just being able to get immediate feedback, whatever). The old "entry level use standard" of 1000 rolls .... 2500-3500 shots on a shutter/mirror mechansim used for film cameras is not gonna cut the mustard with digital users, and they're gonna lose business if they dont realize it.
--
Livin' the blues, one note at a time
 
We have had reports here of Canon doing this repair for free on cameras that were a few weeks or months out of warranty (but not years). It may take some negotiation (which I preferably do through the store that wants my future business) but the flaw is common enough and well known enough by Canon that this happens.
BanderSnatchReverb said:
What sucks about it - is its a known problem, a design shortcoming,
and Canon is not stepping up to the plate and saying hey... on THAT
problem we'll offer an extended warranty or offer repairs for a
smaller dollar amount, or give you a coupon worth a certain amount
when you buy an accessorie (high profit for them), or whatever.
They treat every instance as if its the first time they've ever
seen the problem. Yet they have a nice metal part to replace the
plastic one that sucked to begin with. Funny how that works out.
Sorta stings more than the wallet - it stings the pride as well.

That being said, the problem does not re-occur, and that seems to
be the only real shortcoming of the camera.

Who really knows how long the camera will last after that... could
go 50,000 shots or more.

Canon needs to start thinking like digital photographers think.
That is, they (we) tend to take many more shots for whatever the
reason (time, cost, interest, just being able to get immediate
feedback, whatever). The old "entry level use standard" of 1000
rolls .... 2500-3500 shots on a shutter/mirror mechansim used for
film cameras is not gonna cut the mustard with digital users, and
they're gonna lose business if they dont realize it.
--
Livin' the blues, one note at a time
Click to expand...
--

Slowly learning to use the DRebel (only around 21.000 shots) and now also the Fuji F11.
Public pictures at http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~debra/photos/
 
William Hasselo said:
...
Dutch consumers have, like all other EU consumers, a 2 year
warranty by European law.
http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/nl/lvb/l32022.htm
Click to expand...
I googled to find this in English, and this is what I found:

There is a window of two years from delivery of a consumer product during which the consumer may claim that the product was defective at the time of delivery. Although this period is often misinterpreted as a mandatory two-year warranty period, it is not the case. For example, if a product was purchased with an undetectable defect but that defect became apparent after a few months, then the consumer would have a claim against the seller under EU Directive 1999/44 to repair the defect. If, however, the product was purchased without defects but began to demonstrate reduced functionality after a reasonable period of wear and tear during the first two years (such as a battery that begins to lose its charge capacity over time), the consumer would not have a claim against the seller under EU 1999/44.
http://www.gkh-law.com/reviews/article.asp?id=36

IMO a shutter failure could easily be argued to be "reasonable wear & tear" and short of a "class action" type lawsuit I think it would be quite hard to thoroughly dispute that. I was glad to buy my camera from a supplier which stated "free 2 year warranty" and for a moment I was thinking I'd been hoodwinked, but after considering this a little, I'm glad I did.

Stroller.

--
I wish I spent as much time taking photos as I do on here
but I'm better at remembering lens specifications than I am at capturing images.
 
The law is designed to protect customers. A customer buying a 1200 euro camera in 2004 having this kind of problem after 18 months, will be very dissapointed in the product purchased. It can be expected that for a quality product such as a dslr, the lifespan is longer than 18 months and 16.000 actuations. That is what this law is about, what can be expected of a quality product.
--
Kind regards,

Endless Quest
http://www.Rivian-Art.com
 
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