Explaining Copyright ...

Past discussions on this topic have included topics on clearly stating the copyright facts in your contract and how to pursue legal remedies to copyright infringement.

OK, I've got a bride who just does not get it. She wants to make copies of proofs (marked with a copyright statement) to send to parents and friends. I'm trying to explain the issue but would appreciate any words others have used.

Here is part of a response I am composing to her last email ...

QUOTE

I will try to explain how the industry works. The 4x6 proof set you ordered ... was not an offer to provide unlimited use of all images. Proofs are just that, images used to choose from a larger group of images, that is, a way of making it easier for the customer to pick which images are to be used in an album or to be used for enlargements. They have not had extensive color balancing or touch-up done. In short, proofs are not a finished product and certainly not suitable technically for making copies.

Photographers own the copyright of all images they make. Prints (or albums) are sold individually but the selling of a print does not convey the copyright anymore than selling a print of a painting conveys ownership of that image's copyright. Reproducing professional images is just like reproducing a movie DVD bought from Circuit City or a song from a music CD by a recording artist - its illegal.

I'm again attaching a copy of our contract. It clearly states "Any and all images or digital files created during this effort remain the copyrighted property of ..." and "Any reproduction without the express written consent of ... is prohibited."

We offer, as part of the contract, a significantly reduced price for the Bride & Groom to order prints in addition to the ones included in the package chosen

END QUOTE

Its astounding that she has informed you of her intent, I suggest you make copies of any correspondence and get legal advice.

Drop the "I will try to explain...." line. You might want to explain that your business product includes "prints" and that one of the reasons you can provide your package services at the price you do is because you can do so affordably and that you also can provide additional equally high quality prints at reasonable prices, based on the time and effort needed to properly, safely and effectively process and store the original data files, but it takes time, effort and materials to do so. Perhaps you might want to point out that expecting "free" prints would be like asking the florist to provide additional "free" boutonnieres, "free" flowers for all of the other women, or asking the caterer to provide free box lunches for the honeymon. It simply can't be done because they, like you would, incur the costs of the goods and the labor to provide the products.

You might point out (again) that her copying the "proofs" gets low quality prints (you might want to be careful about explaining the reproducability is intentionally reduced by the proof or copyright statements on the face) and that her trying to copy and distribute the prints is both against the contract and potentially a civl or criminal offense that you could legally pursue.

But if your "profit," is too heavily based on print sales, you may need to re-evaluate your pricing models. Legitimate or not, customers can easily reproduce sufficently high quality copies, so you need to do what you can to find a way to kep print prices low and the ordering process convenient so they don't run off to someone with a scanner to do their own.

Brides order certain prints from the photographer and they out to labs who gladly scan and copy them. This is why I print my images on LUSTRE finish because some scanners scan the ridges in the lustre paper. But some smart Photo Shop expert can get around this.

This is why I charge a lot for my services. I know the likelihood of a bride ordering prints from me are slim. I sell the editted images on DVD as a package. But I was surprised to learn some wealthier brides will come back and order portraits at a later date.

Your argument, while correct, is actually multiple arguments and that can be confusing for your customer. The point you are trying to make is that she cannot make copies without paying you (and obviously, that sounds a bit harsh so I see why you're beating around the bush). But the first thing you explain to the bride is that the proof set isn't touched up and isn't a finished product, so that's why she shouldn't make copies. That's true, but in her head, she's thinking "Okay, but these look pretty darn good, and I don't really want to pay another $X to get some touchups. I'll just use these."

My advice would be to narrow your argument to the legal aspect, and don't make any tangential points like this.

Other arguments....that probably still won't work....

Buying a magazine does not give you the right to publish items from it....

The problem is.....when a person "commisions" something to be done...in the vast majority of commerce...they end up owning the product produced. The difference is that the Photographic profession with a relatively high overhead...needs to keep up front prices low ...in order to get the work....and consequently has historically made a high percentage of the income from the sale of prints with a pretty high markup.

There is nothing wrong with this model, it is just that the client is now able to either copy themselves, or have copied....any photographic output....and as a consequence sees very little "wrong" in copying the prints you provide to them. In the old days "proofing out paper" was used ...the images would fade in a few weeks....incentive to buy prints...and buy them soon. Later...big nasty "PROOF" across the face of the prints was used.....again it was effective...

I used to proof on glossy paper....now I use "E" surface...as I know it doesn't scan easily....I sign all the images with a signature embedded on the files....and back stamp the backs with copyright/proof stamp....

I get calls all the time from Kinkos that want me to fax or sign off on copying my work...and what I tell them is....give me your company credit card, tell me how many prints you are making....the charge is $X.XX per print you make...and you can pass that fee on to the client......

None of the Kinko's will or course do this....so it goes back to the client, and I often get a phone call ......

I then explain that the business model relies upon income from reprints to stay alive, and that the Congress in passing the copyright act agrees that it is right and necessary to allow creative individuals the right to continue to make money off of their creative talents....and that this is the reason that copyright exists.....and why the law allows the photographer to require that all copies of his work be supplied through his channels in order that he can continue to run a profitable business.

The problem today, is that too many newbies willing to shoot an event for cost...or a little bit more....do not realistically take into account the real expenses incurred by a true professional. A true pro needs multiple backups, including human resources. He needs insurance, and he needs to keep current in the field, so has continueing educational needs. Most importantly he needs to make enough to actually live on...over and above the "cost" of doing a shoot.

So now....the client's view that....."shooting digital is free"....as they know you can erase all the bad images....and so there is no "film" cost anymore.....and the number of newbies underbidding jobs.....seriously erodes the real pro's ability to make money by "charging enough up front"...which is an argument I see here often... at the same time as the client doesn't really see why they shouldn't save a buck or two by taking all the prints to WalMart to have them duped.....especially if it is "just" to give to the relatives......how you going to fight it? don't want to alienate the clients.....want to get the business....all you can do is make it hard for them...no glossy....stamp and sign everything that goes out...price agressively so that the first album pays for the time...and the additional prints really are almost as cheap as they could do themselves....?...if we can...

The client also feels some moral high ground here...they paid you to take the pics...why shouldn't they be able to make copies?.....you really have to explain the reasons behind copyright to them....and even then...only the honest ones will abide by it... Luckily most WalMarts are actually monitoring and NOT duping images which they think are professionally taken...a real pain for non pros who do nice work...as I have seen some refused their own prints....it is difficult isn't it?

--
Richard Katris aka Chanan

What's more astounding is to expect a client off the street to understand copyright (when most of the people on this forum don't understand it), and the arcane and outdated business model of wedding photographers who reley on prints to make their profit.

It used to be acceptable to the clients that "Custom Prints" might actually cost $5-$10 for a 5x7 (or whatever wedding photogs charge), now they can make a decent to excellent print for a dollar on their home printer.

Looks like it's a tough sell, unless you are offering something they cannot do at home, like huge prints or that canvas painting look.

K2K

It's not outdated at all.

Prints provide the best-looking final product for digital photographs.

You can't offer wedding prints for a dollar as it would take more than a dollar of your time to find the image being requested.

If you take a landscape photo or do a painting and sell prints in a retail store, you don't simply charge the cost of printing plus the cost of framing.

Wedding photos are the same.

Perhaps it is necessary to sell oneself with an album or CD as part of the total price.

Buy a rubber stamp with PROOF ONLY or just PROOF if it's cheaper, and stamp it on the front in blue/red/green ink that way you won't have the same problem again.

But as for dealing with the problem you find yourself in at the moment...I wouldn't try to explain the copyright law, a lot of photographers don't understand it...and I only know what I don cos I studied photography at college and read some books while studying it...

You might try explaining that by taking copies you are stealing the image (from you, keep it personal) which is in it's basic form is THIEFT. (no one likes a thief/robber/shoplifter etc) If you know what businnes she is in, give her an example that is close to home.

Offer her another set of proofs (with the rubber stamp on) for a reasonable cost so she can send these off to friends and relatives and they can order more prints.

You might also like to point out that by copying the images she is in breach of contract therefore unless she stops copying your images, you could suggest that those will be the only prints she gets of her wedding.

If you were in her position, what would you do at the thought of not getting ANY photographs of the wedding you've shelled out loads of money for?? :-D

If I was in her position I would like to have more than a set of proofs to show for my wedding! wouldn't you?

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

I understand that copyright is vested in the photographer, unless transferred to some other party, but I'm a bit puzzled too.

Normally, photographers have to get a release from the subject - including professional models - before they can use the images commercially but wedding photographers have it sewn up the other way round. They are paid to take the photographs, insist on a print monoploy and are free to sell the images to third parties, or use them to promote their own business without paying any royalties or repro fees. Seems a bit one sided.

What if the bride/groom just want the pro to take the photographs, and prefer to make their own arrangements for PP and printing?

What if the couple want to restrict/control distribution of the images, or expect to get paid for any further reproductions? It's their wedding, and the images wouldn't exist if it hadn't taken place.

This whole concept seems wrong. The client should pay for what they want, including the copyright to the images of their own wedding. It's little wonder that more people are relying on friends and relatives.

Martin

LiveM said:

It's not outdated at all.

Click to expand...

It sure is

LiveM said:

Prints provide the best-looking final product for digital photographs.

Click to expand...

nobody said you shouldnt provide prints. This is about not relying on print orders for your income. The package price can already include prints

LiveM said:

If you take a landscape photo or do a painting and sell prints in a
retail store, you don't simply charge the cost of printing plus the
cost of framing.

Click to expand...

Again nobody said that, You should read some more before responding

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com

PalmsWestPhoto said:

PalmsWestPhoto said:

It's not outdated at all.

Click to expand...

It sure is

PalmsWestPhoto said:

Prints provide the best-looking final product for digital photographs.

Click to expand...

nobody said you shouldnt provide prints. This is about not relying
on print orders for your income. The package price can already
include prints

PalmsWestPhoto said:

If you take a landscape photo or do a painting and sell prints in a
retail store, you don't simply charge the cost of printing plus the
cost of framing.

Click to expand...

Again nobody said that, You should read some more before responding

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com

Click to expand...

I know you're the argumentitive type, so I won't bite your bait.

Of course nobody said it. My post would be pointless if it were just repeating what somebody already said.

Oh, hang on, that's what you did...

""Any and all images or digital files created during this effort remain the copyrighted property of ..." and "Any reproduction without the express written consent of ... is prohibited."

This is basically the same wording that I use on my website, so I think that is sufficient. Have you already explained your policy to her, and if so, what has been her reaction? Does she plan to make copies despite your explaination, and have you discussed an alternative to her problem? Seems like it's basically a distribution problem of how her relatives can view the images.

I've been struggling with this issue for some time now, and still don't have an ideal solution. The fact is, that any time a client has access to an image, there is a chance they will copy it despite any explanation given about copyright. Some photographers have gone to projection proofing only due to widespread copyright infringement. This still won't prevent people from copying ordered prints, but it's about the best we can do.

... but I did not want to restart the old business model discussion or legal copyright debate.

My original request was for help in how to explain the copyright issue. In making that request I did not include all of the relevant circumstances. This customer has been a difficult one and my real goal here is to get this business engagement over with while producing a minimal of bad press and extra work.

Background:

Our contract provided for 150-180 proofs, 6 to a page, in a spiral bound proofbook. She learned (through my poor judgment) that we had taken many, many more images than that. I offered her an on-line view of some 900 (having culled out nearly 1100 for artistic, technical, or duplicative reasons).

I had 3 photographers there (one under instruction). The culls were essentially unflattering views of a person where another better view existed, focus or lighting issues, or substantial color balance issues. We were faced with a variety of unusual challenges in the church and reception venue.

The bride demanded to see all the culls too. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I foolishly provided her with a CD-ROM of reduced resolution, PROOF stamped views of all images taken - even the accidental picture of my feet. Culls were clearly marked "Culled for Artistic, technical, or duplicative reasons."

She found the proofbook sized images to small to use. See bought a proof package of 924 4x6 prints without a transparent PROOF mark on them - including almost 200 of the culls - some really, really poor.

Every 4x6 proof, on the bottom edge, bears an image number and copyright statement.

Now:

The bride wants to make and distribute copies of the proofs and is furious at the proof-mark statement. This reaction came some time after delivery so I suspect it is the result of trying to have copies made and being rejected by some vigilant store.

My first reaction and reason for this post was to try and get some meaningful explanation which would make the problem go away. I guess that too was a tad foolish.

So ... give in and move one or take a principled stand?

Have you thought about sending an iview catalogue?

What you could do is send a CD with the free iview catalogue reader in mac and PC format, that way they can read the info and look at the pics at 640x640....if you use medium res thumbs they are good enough to preview but not good enough to print from or extract (if they had the full version of Iview)

Or you could just Email the iview catalogue and send the link to the iview website if they are in a hurry to see the images. No cost as well

Or you could make a catalogue of low res watermarked images then they couldn't extract them even if they wanted to.

Or just print proofs onto plain paper (or a contact print with a few images on each page) and send those out

Just a thought or 2
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Always give the client a vertical-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=280578

I hate these kinds of defenses too, so I know how you feel. What you really have is a customer service problem and there are a few things that NEED to take place in order to gain a satisfactory outcome, though that is not guaranteed. There are guarateed ways to ensure that the end result is negative and you want to avoid those...

1. First rule. Always let your customer fully vent before you jump in. Cutting them off mid-sentence will only fuel their fire. Always let them finish and then give them an extra 2-3 seconds before you say ANYTHING other than the obligatory 'uh-huh' and 'OK' or 'yes?' that show you are still on the line.

2. Empathize with your customer. Even if you cannot agree with them, put yourself in their shoes to see the problem from their angle. Even though you may know that they are stupid, worthless idiots, don't let on. They are paying your bills. Even though evwerything in your frame might scream out for retaliation, hold back.

3. Once you empathize with the complainer and they feel that you understand the nature of their complaint you are in a position to walk them over to your side of the issue. You've heard the addage "People don;t care how much you know unless they know how much you care".

4. For sensitive issues where feelings are involved, AVOID EMAIL. Nobody can express 'tone of voice' in an email and often the enraged reader will assign a snide tone to even the most innocuous statements. Your sincere "Let me try to help you understand this issue" can be read internally interpreted as condescending. I know, it's not in the original intent but in matters like this perception is everything.

So, you need to call this person. Ask her to tell you everything that she takes issue with. Let her finish. Then you can begin to tell her about the nature of your work. Reassure her that her perception of the issue is understandable. You might equate it with the recording industry or the publishing industry. Above all, do not talk down to her. Get on her level to understand the issues and then slowly educate her.

I cannot really tell you how to phrase your explanations or anything like that, but I can definitely tell you how to handle her as an emotional creature.

Disclaimer - My wife taught customer service training all over the country for Airborne Express (now DHL) and that's where I learned these things. The unfortunate thing is that copyright issues are more difficult to explain than 'where's my package?'
--

'Truth is stranger than fiction for we have fashioned fiction to suit ourselves' - G.K. Chesterton
http://www.jimroofcreative.com

My compliments

(note, as this is a text only post, I wish to make clear that all statements are sincere in their meaning, I am being positive, no negative tones are meant, overt or subtle! ;-)

Chas

jimcreative said:

I hate these kinds of defenses too, so I know how you feel. What
you really have is a customer service problem and there are a few
things that NEED to take place in order to gain a satisfactory
outcome, though that is not guaranteed. There are guarateed ways
to ensure that the end result is negative and you want to avoid
those...

1. First rule. Always let your customer fully vent before you
jump in. Cutting them off mid-sentence will only fuel their fire.
Always let them finish and then give them an extra 2-3 seconds
before you say ANYTHING other than the obligatory 'uh-huh' and 'OK'
or 'yes?' that show you are still on the line.

2. Empathize with your customer. Even if you cannot agree with
them, put yourself in their shoes to see the problem from their
angle. Even though you may know that they are stupid, worthless
idiots, don't let on. They are paying your bills. Even though
evwerything in your frame might scream out for retaliation, hold
back.

3. Once you empathize with the complainer and they feel that you
understand the nature of their complaint you are in a position to
walk them over to your side of the issue. You've heard the addage
"People don;t care how much you know unless they know how much you
care".

4. For sensitive issues where feelings are involved, AVOID EMAIL.
Nobody can express 'tone of voice' in an email and often the
enraged reader will assign a snide tone to even the most innocuous
statements. Your sincere "Let me try to help you understand this
issue" can be read internally interpreted as condescending. I
know, it's not in the original intent but in matters like this
perception is everything.

So, you need to call this person. Ask her to tell you everything
that she takes issue with. Let her finish. Then you can begin to
tell her about the nature of your work. Reassure her that her
perception of the issue is understandable. You might equate it
with the recording industry or the publishing industry. Above all,
do not talk down to her. Get on her level to understand the issues
and then slowly educate her.

I cannot really tell you how to phrase your explanations or
anything like that, but I can definitely tell you how to handle her
as an emotional creature.

Disclaimer - My wife taught customer service training all over the
country for Airborne Express (now DHL) and that's where I learned
these things. The unfortunate thing is that copyright issues are
more difficult to explain than 'where's my package?'
--
'Truth is stranger than fiction for we have fashioned fiction to
suit ourselves' - G.K. Chesterton
http://www.jimroofcreative.com

Click to expand...

Never ever, ever ,ever let the proofs out of the studio! Even in the days of film people would make copy negatives and make prints, Now with digital, why would you want to show them "ppppppppprrrrrrrrrrooooofs", it's beyond me. Even if you don't make proofs, you know they are going to take that 5x7, even ripping it out of their album to send uncle Bubba a copy. If you are digital, schedule a look see, and offer a presentation album with 80 or 120 or 300 proofs at a price. If the package includes an album, help them pick the photographs and never ever let the proofs out of the studio. How are you going to sell a 4x6 at $5.00 or $10.00 when they can make a copy at Walmart for .20 cents.

Martin Caie said:

It's not outdated at all.

Click to expand...

It is when the business plan is to shoot the job for a low price and expect to make the profit in selling prints. Back in the day there was a mystery involved in 'custom prints' and a perceived value. Now, everybody can be a custom printer or go to WalMart and have Fuji prints made.

LiveM said:

Prints provide the best-looking final product for digital photographs.

Click to expand...

Well of course the folks want prints.

LiveM said:

You can't offer wedding prints for a dollar as it would take more
than a dollar of your time to find the image being requested.

Click to expand...

?

LiveM said:

If you take a landscape photo or do a painting and sell prints in a
retail store, you don't simply charge the cost of printing plus the
cost of framing.

Wedding photos are the same.

Click to expand...

If you say so, but to compare a retail sale of picture to a personalized wedding shoot doesn't really make sense other than the fact that you have to make profit to stay in business.

LiveM said:

Perhaps it is necessary to sell oneself with an album or CD as part
of the total price.

Click to expand...

did you already give the client her proofs? If not- I'd solve it by printing them with a finish that makes it hard to get a good copy...