applying "rule of thirds"

well, I need to learn more about retouching techniques !
In the response to my previous thread, Shay explained the "rule of thirds" :
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=1832443

I am using Paintshop pro, is there a simple way to draw an objects representing the thirds and then drag it and size it to the picture to help resizing ?

If not, is it easier in photoshop ? should I move to photoshop ?

I Know, I know, there is a retouching forum, I should not bother you guys with that !
... but this talk is like home for me ....

The best place to use the "rule of thirds" is in your viewfinder or LCD screen.

In other words, "rule of thirds" is a composition guide.

Now that you understand exactly what the "rule of thirds" is and how it's imlemented, thanks to that wonderful graphic explanation -- you mentally keep the "rule of thirds" in mind as you compose your photos.

If it helps you could draw some lines on clear acetate and tape it over your LCD to remind you until you get used to using it and it becomes second nature.

Remember, it's only a guideline rule -- meant to be broken.

If you compose your photos correctly you won't need to try to correct them in your image program.

Also, although the "rule of thirds" is an excellent starting point there are a lot of other considerations such as subject matter, lighting and contrast.

Keep clicking! The more photos you take the more you learn.

I am using photoshop elements, and do not know if paintshop pro will let you do layers or not. But assuming it does what I have been doing is opening up a premade 500x375 image that I drew the thirds lines on and copying it to the clipboard.

Then I paste that onto a 500x375 copy of the image I want to manipulate .

Then I change the blending method to "overlay" so that I can see the "third's" template and the photo at the same time.

Then I click on the photo layer and move it and scale it until the subject is placed on one of the "nodes" and the whole frame is filled with photo.

That tells me where I need to crop the full size photo.

I go to the full size original and crop it to match the one I just lined up and then do whatever other processing I want done (resizing, sharpening, color,brightness,etc).--Shay http://f707.shay.ws

Very true, the "rule of thirds" is more of a guideline to taking good looking photo's but is no substitute for a good eye. I have a clear plastic overlay on my camera with the four nodes on it to use as a guide not only for composition but also helps to level out horizons and buildings and whatnot. It is far more effective to do your composing in camera as you throw away a lot less photo later in your image editor.--Shay http://f707.shay.ws

Good ideas. I like the idea of using lines or nodes to aid in keepiing horizons and verticals straight. I usually use the spotmeter grid to help me there

As a graphic designer, once I actually understood the "rule of thirds" I just "eyeballed" it. However, while I read many descriptions of the rule of thirds, I misunderstood it until I finally saw a visual representation of it. That's why I thought the post here in this forum showing the lines on top of the photo was the most helpful I've seen to explain the concept.

I find it's important to keep in mind that shape, contrast and color can affect using the rule of thirds, where always sticking to a rigid mechanical interpretation may not always work.

Another good tip is to allow a little more space around your composition. I sometimes manage to crop too closely in the viewfinder and when it's time to make a print to fit a standard frame I have to give up too much.

Shay wrote:
"I have a clear plastic overlay on my camera with the four nodes on it to use

as a guide not only for composition but also helps to level out horizons and buildings and whatnot."

where do you have this overlay attached? and how? this is a great tip!--you pay for what you get, but you don't always get what you payed for. the penny pincher always pays the most.

It is one of those "WriteRight" or whatever sceen protectors you use for pocketPC's. I cut one to size then used a "Sharpie" permanent marker to place a dot on each of the nodes. Then put the overlay on the LCD and your ready.--Shay http://f707.shay.ws

Shay

thanks again....gonna mark my protector right now!--you pay for what you get, but you don't always get what you payed for. the penny pincher always pays the most.

Elements may have guidelines like Photoshop. When the rulers are displayed you can drag guidlines out into the image area.

-Ed

Shay said:

I am using photoshop elements, and do not know if paintshop pro
will let you do layers or not. But assuming it does what I have
been doing is opening up a premade 500x375 image that I drew the
thirds lines on and copying it to the clipboard.

Then I paste that onto a 500x375 copy of the image I want to
manipulate .

Then I change the blending method to "overlay" so that I can see
the "third's" template and the photo at the same time.

Then I click on the photo layer and move it and scale it until the
subject is placed on one of the "nodes" and the whole frame is
filled with photo.

That tells me where I need to crop the full size photo.

I go to the full size original and crop it to match the one I just
lined up and then do whatever other processing I want done
(resizing, sharpening, color,brightness,etc).
--

Shay

http://f707.shay.ws

Click to expand...

---Ed (Void Where Prohibited, Your Mileage May Vary) W. http://www.pbase.com/ewaldorph/dpreviewSony F505v (with Canon 500D +2 lens for macros)(;¬ þ)

Thanks Ed, I checked and was able to turn on a grid setup to display a line every 33.3333 percent. Now I dont have to do the overlay :-D what a timesaver.--Shay http://f707.shay.ws

In addition to my 707 I have a 1.4mp fuji camera. You can select to show the lines for the rule of thirds on the LCD. I'm surprised more manufacturers don't do that also.

JLN said:

I am using Paintshop pro, is there a simple way to draw an objects
representing the thirds and then drag it and size it to the picture
to help resizing ?

Click to expand...

You can do it using the view grid or guidelines functions in Paintshop Pro 7.x. I suppose there are similar functions in earlier versions, but I don't know that for sure.

With either method, you determine the size of the image 1/3s, ie a 1600x1200 image would have grid spacing of 533x400 for thirds.

The grid lines then resize with the image when zoomed and you can change the colors of the grid lines as well. You have to recalculate if you resize the image to 640x480, etc.

JLN said:

well, I need to learn more about retouching techniques !
In the response to my previous thread, Shay explained the "rule of
thirds" :
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=1832443

I am using Paintshop pro, is there a simple way to draw an objects
representing the thirds and then drag it and size it to the picture
to help resizing ?

If not, is it easier in photoshop ? should I move to photoshop ?

I Know, I know, there is a retouching forum, I should not bother
you guys with that !
... but this talk is like home for me ....

Click to expand...

In Paintshop Pro, go to "View" on the toolbar, scroll down to "change gride and guide properties": set "pixels", horisontal spacing to 853, and vertical spacing to 640.

Shay said:

Thanks Ed, I checked and was able to turn on a grid setup to
display a line every 33.3333 percent. Now I dont have to do the
overlay :-D what a timesaver.
--

Shay

http://f707.shay.ws

Click to expand...

Whatever floats yer boat, I always say. Gridlines or guidelines; as the Eyetalians say: Kay Sierrra Madre.

-Ed

---Ed (Void Where Prohibited, Your Mileage May Vary) W. http://www.pbase.com/ewaldorph/dpreviewSony F505v (with Canon 500D +2 lens for macros)(;¬ þ)