Put the TZ1 through it's paces...mixed feelings (long)

Mike Scott

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Today I put the TZ1 through it's paces at my nephew's birthday party (2 yrs. old)....I have mixed feelings.

A little background. I've been shooting digital since 2000 with the Canon D30, in 2001 I bought the Canon G2 for a point and shoot and used full auto quite often. In 2004 I bought the 10D, and last year the 5D. I shoot about a dozen weddings per year as well as macro and product stills.

My wife and I also combine for about 5000 - 7000 snaps per year. Mostly of our kids and dogs.

Back to the TZ1.....

First the good. The TZ1 was great outdoors. The exposure was surprisingly good (very few blown highlights). The colors were nice, a bit saturated which is how I like them from a P&S. The shutter lag was hardly noticable (this was the main reason for wanting to upgrade....err, move over from the G2).

Now the bad. Indoors with flash was a nightmare. My wife was the first to try it out. After about 10 shots her response was "What the heck is wrong with this thing"? She handed it to me and I reviewed the images. Everyone of them had motion blur and ghosting. I pressed display to check the settings and noticed the camera chose ISO 100, f/2.8, and shutter speeds between 1/8 and 1/30. There is no way to stop the action of a toddler at these settings.

I tried all of the scene modes to see if they could help....nope. Next I tried the various flash settings, again no help. Finally I was able to get the camera to choose a shutter speed of 1/50 by manually selecting an ISO speed of 400. So what this means to me is that in order to use this camera, I (or my wife) will need to remember to switch to ISO 400 indoors. This defeats the purpose of a P&S.

Why would Panasonic write an algorithm which will cause bad indoor flash results in many situations (100% of the time with a toddler). The G2 would always choose 1/60 when flash was activated in auto mode. It almost seems as though they never field tested it or maybe they did, but just with stationary subjects.

If you look at my posting history you'll see that I'm not a troll. I really want to use this camera. I also realize that there may be something fundamental that I'm missing that will solve this problem.

A couple observations:

1) the IQ of the G2 was better than the TZ1 at all ISOs. Less "smearing" of pixels. Not really noticable in 4x6 prints.

2) It seemed that the Image stabilizer could not keep-up in burst mode. The first image was nicely focused, but the next would be blurry.

3) For some reason my wife kept hitting the arrow keys on the back and unintentionally activating various functions. I'm not sure why that is or if it matters to anyone, but it happened repeatedly and never happened with other cameras.

4) I tried playing with the different Scene modes in various setting and couldn't tell a difference. The camera was choosing the same settings regardless of mode. There seemed to be a very high preference toward f/2.8.

I hope that this info. was useful to someone. Now I'm off to read the manual again.

Mike
 
For me, which requires SOME stabilizing even with adult posing subjects sometimes. But before you reject it out of hand, I've gotten surprisingly good results with indoor flash, i.e., am able to take shots up to ISO 400, and print them at least at 8X10 size with very little to no apparent noise. I've also observed pretty good eye colors and flesh tones in these shots. In that respect, it's better than the FZ30, as far as I can tell. (With the FZ30, the flash can sync out to 1/2000 of a second, so you'd have no trouble freezing action there!)

As far as toddlers go, you may benefit more from the TZ1's high ISO modes (ISO 800 in the normal mode, up to 1600 in the "high sensitivity" scene mode, at a cost in softness, but still printable at 4X6); check LaRee's recent kid post for results like these, without flash.
--
Hey guys, stick around, i'm just getting started!



EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty, TizzyOne
 
To increase the shutter speed with flash

I suggest that from this informatiom from the TZ1 User Guide . . .

Shutter speed for each flash setting

Flash setting Shutter speed (Sec.)
: AUTO 1/30 to 1/2000
: AUTO/Red-eye reduction 1/30 to 1/2000
: Forced ON, Forced ON/Red-eye reduction 1/30 to 1/2000
: Slow sync. Red-eye reduction 1/8 to 1/2000 [or up to 1 sec if SS^]
: Forced OFF 1/8 to 1/2000 [or up to 1 sec if Slow Shutter is increased]


If the available light is too low, the camera will use the slowest available shutter speed with flash. In your case, 1/30 second is the slowest shutter speed for Auto mode. With more available light, faster shutter speeds are used.

To enable indoor flash with a faster shutter, increase the amount of available light. One can open window shades to let in daylight, or turn on lamps to raise the illumination.
 
As an example, in the evening I turned on the indoor room light. I used force on at ISO200 for a good indoor exposure at F3.9 1/125. Slow Sync will also work.
 
With TZ1 under the lighting condition where LaRee did the kid post:

ISO1600, f/4.1, 1/30s, f=229m

which is about 3 stops short (1/240s) being able freeze fast moving objects.

To achieve that, we need improvements for future TZx models:

1. a faster lense, f/2.8 at f=350mm without large increase in physical size, 1 stop improvement

2. a better CCD to achieve ISO6400 while maintaining the same IQ as the current ISO1600, 2 stop improvement

With the above, we'll be able to do some serious indoor sports, assuming AF difficulty can be offset by manual pre-focus.

Until then, DSLRs with fast lense and good CCD remain the king of the house.

wz
 
The TZ1 compared to a dSLR may not be "King of the house," but at least it gives a hope of making some captures, unlike anything else in the $300 price range.
--
Hey guys, stick around, i'm just getting started!



EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeThirty, TizzyOne
 
The TZ1 size limits the battery capacity. To increase battery life, the flash is made less powerful. A less powerful flash reduces the flash range. To increase the range, the long shutter speed is changed from 1/60 to 1/30 second. These design decisions make the numbers look competitive.
 
This is what I figured. But, I'd still would rather shoot at ISO 200 1/60 instead of ISO 100 at 1/30.

I just wish there were a scene mode that allowed for faster shutter when using flash.

Mike
 
This is what I figured. But, I'd still would rather shoot at ISO
200 1/60 instead of ISO 100 at 1/30.

I just wish there were a scene mode that allowed for faster shutter
when using flash.

Mike
Use High Sensitivity mode with flash. That produces good 4x6 prints. I just tried HS and got F2.8 1/60, but I needed to turn on lights to brighten the room, since it is still dark here.

I made indoor videos the other day by opening all the windows to let in light. The videos have excellent exposure.
 
This is what I figured. But, I'd still would rather shoot at ISO
200 1/60 instead of ISO 100 at 1/30.

I just wish there were a scene mode that allowed for faster shutter
when using flash.

Mike
Use High Sensitivity mode with flash. That produces good 4x6
prints. I just tried HS and got F2.8 1/60, but I needed to turn on
lights to brighten the room, since it is still dark here.
I forgot to mention the camera chose ISO and used ISO100 F2.8 1/60. With less light the exposure would be ISO80 1/30 second. You are right, it is biased for the lowest ISO value in auto mode. To choose a higher ISO, you must manually select it in the Normal mode.
I made indoor videos the other day by opening all the windows to
let in light. The videos have excellent exposure.
 
Hmmm. 1/30 with flash is crazy; it is just asking for trouble if there is any motion at all. If I want to use slow sync I'll select it myself. Isn't there a "sports" mode on the TZ1? I almost bought one, now I'm rethinking it.
 
There is a sports mode, but the camera still chooses 1/30.

It really is to bad because I think this camera is very good in many other respects, but the fact that I can't take pictures of my kids indoors without having to turn every light in the house on is a bummer....kinda kills any spontaneity.

it seems that since this is only a programming issue that there should be a work-around. I'm not sure if there are firmware type updates for P&S digicams.

Mike
 
There is a sports mode, but the camera still chooses 1/30.

It really is to bad because I think this camera is very good in
many other respects, but the fact that I can't take pictures of my
kids indoors without having to turn every light in the house on is
a bummer....kinda kills any spontaneity.

it seems that since this is only a programming issue that there
should be a work-around. I'm not sure if there are firmware type
updates for P&S digicams.

Mike
I've noticed that at lower light levels with flash enabled, the exposure compensation does not change the shutter speed or aperture. The photo is lighter or darker, changing with the exposure compensation. In flash mode, the exposure compensation must change the flash duration to modify the exposure.

A programming change that may work would be to keep the flash pulse constant at maximum output, and instead vary the shutter speed. Then one could vary flash sync speed.
 
I consider the main use for a camera like this is for vacations.. were you mostly take outdoor shots and an occasional flash shot. For those important family memories taken at home (especially indoors).. I would recommend a higher quality camera with manual controls. A little larger camera at home is no big deal.
 
I agree. We use a dslr at home.

But how about kid's birthday parties, opening christmas gifts at the in-laws, wedding receptions, indoor play areas, etc.

The other thing is that there are still times at home where you just want to be able to grab a camera and shoot because your 2 year old son decided to pour chocolate syrup over his head. Most of the time the dslr isn't set-up for this. It may have a specialty lens attached or be in manual mode at ISO-3200 or.......

I do agree that the TZ1 is great for amuzement parks, etc.

Mike
 
Mike Scott wrote:
  • snip -
A couple observations:

1) the IQ of the G2 was better than the TZ1 at all ISOs. Less
"smearing" of pixels. Not really noticable in 4x6 prints.
How do you see smearing? I can't see that.
2) It seemed that the Image stabilizer could not keep-up in burst
mode. The first image was nicely focused, but the next would be
blurry.
I do not see a limit of the image stabilizer in burst mode. Burst mode fixes the focus for the first shot. Did you move the camera after the first shot, or did the subject move?
3) For some reason my wife kept hitting the arrow keys on the back
and unintentionally activating various functions. I'm not sure why
that is or if it matters to anyone, but it happened repeatedly and
never happened with other cameras.

4) I tried playing with the different Scene modes in various
setting and couldn't tell a difference. The camera was choosing the
same settings regardless of mode. There seemed to be a very high
preference toward f/2.8.

I hope that this info. was useful to someone. Now I'm off to read
the manual again.

Mike
 

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