Is the new 105VR Micro Lens REALLY f/2.8???

PhotoGearJunkie

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I heard someone talking in my local shop, and I read somewhere on these boards (can't find the link) that this lens does not have a max aperture of 2.8 at all focal distances. For instance, at 1:1 magnification, the max available aperture might be f/3.5. Can anyone confirm or deny this, specifically with a D200?

Thanks!
 
I just got the lens today, yes, that's correct, a 1:1 it's not 2.8, doesn"t matter though, so far I am impressed. not the fastest AF I have ever seen, hunts a bit in low light, but sharp as they come. I am hoping for a nice day of sun tomorrow and I'll take it for a spin, macro and some portrait stuff would sound nice. So far loving the VR
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Sascha
http://www.pbase.com/saschagast
 
..for macro lenses. The maximum aperture is when the lens is focused at infinity.

My only macro lens. the 60 f/2.8, can get to f/2.8 at infinity, but only f/5 at 1:1.

RB
http://www.pbase.com/rbfresno/profile
 
The Nikon IS still 2.8 apeture at 1:1 concerning DOF but for the purposes of exposure it is not. The Nikon reports the effective apeture as it relates to exposure. The apeture as it relates to DOF is in fact still 2.8. All macro lenses experience this. All lenses experience an effective loss of apeture (for the purposes of exposure) as the focus from infinity to closer distances but for most the amount is insignificant so it is not communicated to the body via the chip.
--

Fit for release from a mental institution but banned from the 3-0-0-D forum since 6-2005.
 
brokenz wrote:
. All lenses
experience an effective loss of apeture (for the purposes of
exposure) as the focus from infinity to closer distances but for
most the amount is insignificant so it is not communicated to the
body via the chip.
From f/2.8 to f/5 is insignificant ?

I don't think so.

And yes, the loss of aperture is communicated to the body, you can see this in your body, if you shot at A mode (you dial f/2.8 and closer you get, the f number is cahanging rapidy
)
 
It's important to clarify that ALL lenses exhibit this behavior. It belongs to optical reasons due to extension, so that the maximum aperture labelled is always focusing at infinite.

Since macro lenses can focus real close, this effect becomes noticeable and it is important when using handheld lightmeters or in scientific photography.

And the real thing about Canon is that their systems take into account the light loss, BUT do not show it to the photographer in the displays. In this sense, you've switched to a better system.

Roger

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Roger Eritja
http://www.eritja.com
 
experience an effective loss of apeture (for the purposes of
exposure) as the focus from infinity to closer distances but for
most the amount is insignificant so it is not communicated to the
body via the chip.
From f/2.8 to f/5 is insignificant ?
The loss is insignificant for most lenses that are only capable of hitting maybe 1:3 at best. For a macro lens it is quite significant thus the reason I find it very reassuring that the Nikon macro lenses communicate this with the body.
I don't think so.

And yes, the loss of aperture is communicated to the body, you can
see this in your body, if you shot at A mode (you dial f/2.8 and
closer you get, the f number is cahanging rapidy
)
Agree. Many folks have such a hard time with the concept of bellows effect that I wonder if Nikon should just let the actual apeture stay in effect and just correct exposure without showing what is really happening. Lol!
--

Fit for release from a mental institution but banned from the 3-0-0-D forum since 6-2005.
 
Thanks for the info everyone!

I think I understand everything, but why wouldn't/couldn't the camera still show f/2.8 and then adjust the shutter speed accordingly? This would make more sense???

For example, say I'm shooting a landscape scene at f/2.8 and 1/30sec, and then move in to do a 1:1 macro. It would make more sense to maintain the f/2.8 on the display, and increase the exposure to 1/15sec. Especially since the aperture blades are fixed at the opening of f/2.8. Am I explaining this ok?

Again, as I understand it, you can't maintain f/2.8 throughout the entire focusing range. This just seems goofy. It just seems like you should be able to always use an aperture of f/2.8, but then have to adjust the exposure time based on the available light and magnification.
 
I understand why the exposure changes. But why does the aperture
have to be the value that is affected, and not just the shutter
speed?
It is basic physics. The lens projects light over a larger area as it is focused on closer objects, resulting in a lower illuminance at the image plane. Aperture is the parameter that determines light flux per unit area. Shutter speed determines the length of time that light is allowed to accumulate at the image. Exposure depends on both shutter speed and aperture. Shutter speed is controlled by the camera, not by the lens. You, or the built in meter, will adjust shutter speed to compensate for the light loss as aperture is changed at close focus, not the other way around.

Lenses generally cannot have a constant aperture as they focus closer than about 1:10 magnification. Keeping aperture constant from focus at infinity down to 1:1 magnification would require that the aperture diameter increase by 2X, or two full f-stops (for a symmetrical lens). Once the lens is opened up to its widest aperture, there is no way open it up further as the lens focuses on closer objects.
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Gerry
 
Thanks for the explanation! And I apologize for my denseness, but I guess what I don't understand is your first sentence (in the first paragraph), and the entire second paragraph.

For instance, assume that I am focusing on a gray card, in the same light, at 1:1 and at infinity (yes it would be a large gray card!). Why would an aperture that is manually set to 2.8 on the lens, give different aperture values in the camera body at 1:1 and at infinity? (Finally I feel I like I've explained my question clearly... phew!)

Thanks!
 
...it quickly smaller apertured as you focus closer.

maljo
 
Because, simply, it would be
WRONG!
get it? Canon lies. They don't tell you the effective aperture
being used for the exposure.
Nikon's method is the technically correct one.
--
Got the lenses...Talent currently under construction.
My gallery! http://nikonmadness.smugmug.com
No. Neither of them lie. The effective light goes through the lens at 1:1 macro is less than the light would go through a true f2.8 (f5.0 in the case of 60mm Macro). But the real aperture IS STILL f2.8 (you get the depth of field of f2.8, but not f5.0). Sigma, Minolta also use the same way Canon does.

I would say, Nikon is great for manual focus and manual exposure (especially if you use a separate exposure meter). Canon will be more appropriate if you need to have a clearer idea of depth of field and will let camera's AE decide for your exposure.

--
monte
 
Bellows effect - the light that passes the lens is diluted to a bigger area
 
I think I understand everything, but why wouldn't/couldn't the camera still show f/2.8 and then adjust the shutter speed accordingly?
OK, I guess you are thinking that the camera closes the lens down to f5 instead of adjusting the shutter. This is not the case. If you set the lens at f2.8, it will be a true f2.8 when focused at infinity. As you focus closer, the "bellows effect" that eveyone's been telling you about kicks in. Because the lens extends to focus closer not as much light reaches the sensor or the film.

The aperture is still f2.8 as set, but the amount of light reaching the sensor is effectively the amount of light that would reach the sensor if the lens was set to f/5 and focused at infinity. If you've set the camera to Aperture Priority the camera will adjust the shutter speed as needed.

The difference between Nikon and Canon is that Canon tells you that the lens is set to f2.8, but Nikon tells you the EFFECTIVE aperture -- the actual amount of light hitting the focal plane, even though the lens is set to f2.8.

Rick
 
... But the real aperture IS STILL
f2.8 (you get the depth of field of f2.8, but not f5.0). ...
Huh? Where did you get that idea? Depth of field at distances much less than hyperfocal distance varies directly with effective aperture and inversely with magnification squared. Yes, you get the DOF of an f/5 lens with the 60 mm Micro when wide open at 1:1.
I would say, Nikon is great for manual focus and manual exposure
(especially if you use a separate exposure meter). Canon will be
more appropriate if you need to have a clearer idea of depth of
field and will let camera's AE decide for your exposure.
Canon's approach is standard for most older cameras; they assume the photographer knows what he or she is doing, and is able to correct for bellows factor when necessary with external metering or manual flash. TTL metering handles this for you, but on a Canon does not tell you the correct effective aperture. There is no magic in Canon cameras that enables them to give a "clearer idea of depth of field." In fact, by not reporting the effective aperture, they misrepresent DOF.

--
Gerry
 

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