SLR vs Point and shoot

Bill Dewey · Nov 14, 2001

Very good points you make here, especially that this is more a distinction of "level" than "physical build". The Oly E-10/20 are much like my first Sony D-770 as to the splitting of the light to both the CCD and the viewfinder. There is talk about how this technology would help the "traditional" SLR as well, use of a pellicle mirror, which would negate the mirror movement and slap. The downside to this, as you point out, is some loss of light.

I also think that your "point-and-shoot" definition is too tight. I don't think the market disallows manual features but thinks of P&S not only as function, but in terms of form as well, much like 35mm P&S in general, ignoring such gems as Leica and Contax.

going_digital said:
And the Fuji (not the S1) and Minolta models use an imaging LCD to
provide a low resolution viewfinder (like you find in camcorders).
The Olympus does provide an optical image through the lens, but
with an optical splitter so that the light energy density entering
the front of the lens is split with some going to the viewfinder
and some going to the sensor - reducing the brightness to both the
sensor as well as the viewfinder. The viewfinder is not a bright as
it could be, and the signal to noise ratio of the sensor suffers
because of the attenuated image from the splitter. Also, I'm not
sure if the Olympus has a mechanical shutter; the Minolta and Fuji
don't.

One other differentiating factor specifically with the Minolta,
Fuji, and Olympus is the size of the sensor. Their choice of closed
system architecture for their through-the-lens products allows them
to use a smaller CCD and achieve their zoom ratio's and ranges
because they don't have to work around the restrictions of
lens-to-focal-plane distances of the 35mm SLR architecture (hence
they can get wide angle and zoom range without requireing very
expensive lenses because focal length multiplier has no meaning).
In fact, these cameras refer to zoom ranges as 4x or 8x as opposed
to 28mm-135mm; focal length doesn't have any meaning.

The downside of course is that the smaller the sensor, the less
light it picks up, the more they boost the sense amplifiers from
the sensor and the lower the signal to noise ratio. For the other
manufacturers of D-SLR's, I'm not sure the lens-to-focal-plane
distance is a restriction on their designs, but based on existing
SLR architectures, the manufacturers seem dead set on working
within this framework. We all know you can put the lens at a close
distance to the focal plane - which would change the focal length
of lenses, and would shift the focus distances (tele-extenders do
this in the opposite direction). Maybe doing so in the the wide
angle direction pushes beyond the sweet spot of the optics and that
is why they don't want to do this. Given that focal length
multiplier is a big feature, there must be a reason why this is not
a viable solution for them.

Lastly, I interpret "point-and-shoot" to mean not having to set
aperture or shutter speed or focus. With SLR's having such good
auto exposure systems and autofocus systems, I believe the term SLR
and point-and-shoot are not exclusive characteristics in a camera.

This seems more like a discussion of consumer vs. prosumer vs.
professional digital cameras, as opposed to SLR vs. point and shoot.

dbargen · Nov 21, 2001

ezraorchard said:
ezra

Ger Bee said:

This sounds like too basic a question so I must assume you want to
use a Leica rangefinder and a few lenses but you are worried that
it may not suit your application?

So what is your intended market or application?

ezraorchard said:

What are the major differences between the two?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

dbargen · Nov 21, 2001

I take a lot of youth soccer pictures with an fd84. I want to upgrade to either a mvc-cd300 or dsc-f707. I like the zoom of the 707 but the media of the cd300. Is it possible to put an additional lens on the cd300 to get better zoom capability?

thanks!

dbargen said:
ezraorchard said:

ezra

Ger Bee said:

This sounds like too basic a question so I must assume you want to
use a Leica rangefinder and a few lenses but you are worried that
it may not suit your application?

So what is your intended market or application?

ezraorchard said:

What are the major differences between the two?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

ezra · Nov 21, 2001

I am not qualified to help you. I will say that you are not alone in the zoom / media delima. I am begining to think flash card and a olympus e-20-n.

dbargen said:
thanks!

dbargen said:

ezraorchard said:

ezra

Ger Bee said:

This sounds like too basic a question so I must assume you want to
use a Leica rangefinder and a few lenses but you are worried that
it may not suit your application?

So what is your intended market or application?

ezraorchard said:

What are the major differences between the two?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

BobTrips · Nov 21, 2001

ezraorchard said:
What are the major differences between the two?

I think that we would be well served to start using terms that distinguish between the two main classes of cameras.

There are those that let the use see the image to be taken through the main lens. This is the TTL group. One can achieve TTL function via swinging mirror, partially silvered prisim or electronic view finder (EVF). And, I suppose, we sould include a view camera where you can stick your head under a piece of cloth, look through the lens, insert film holder, shoot.

The there are the cameras that use a seperate system for framing. View finders, range finders, etc. Anyone got a good generic term for these?

Then, perhaps, we can use 'point&shoot' for cameras that are fully automatic and have no or few manual controls.

Joo · Nov 22, 2001

Why not get the CD-1000 then? Its has a 10x zoom lens and writes to 80mm CD-Rs like the CD-300. Granted, it doesn't write to CD-RWs, but still pretty cheap media.

Joo

dbargen said:
thanks!

dbargen said:

ezraorchard said:

ezra

Ger Bee said:

This sounds like too basic a question so I must assume you want to
use a Leica rangefinder and a few lenses but you are worried that
it may not suit your application?

So what is your intended market or application?

ezraorchard said:

What are the major differences between the two?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

John Davis · Nov 22, 2001

I think TTL is an acronym for Through-The-Lens METERING.

SLR - Single-Lens-Reflex pertains to a viewing via a reflective path through the single lens (in the camera) as contrasted to Rollei dual-lens reflex.

John

BobTrips said:
ezraorchard said:

What are the major differences between the two?

Click to expand...

I think that we would be well served to start using terms that
distinguish between the two main classes of cameras.

There are those that let the use see the image to be taken through
the main lens. This is the TTL group. One can achieve TTL
function via swinging mirror, partially silvered prisim or
electronic view finder (EVF). And, I suppose, we sould include a
view camera where you can stick your head under a piece of cloth,
look through the lens, insert film holder, shoot.

The there are the cameras that use a seperate system for framing.
View finders, range finders, etc. Anyone got a good generic term
for these?

Then, perhaps, we can use 'point&shoot' for cameras that are fully
automatic and have no or few manual controls.

RJNedimyer · Nov 22, 2001

John Davis said:
I think TTL is an acronym for Through-The-Lens METERING.

SLR - Single-Lens-Reflex pertains to a viewing via a reflective
path through the single lens (in the camera) as contrasted to
Rollei dual-lens reflex.

John

John,

I agree to a point.

S= Single
L= Lens

To this point every one seems to agree; the problem is many believe reflex means "Moving Mirror". I looked this up in 2 dictionaries and REFLEX means automatic or without thought or further control.

So Possibly "R" could concievably mean the "automatic" movement of the mirror but if it does then any camera that has a "lockable" mirror would fail the definition. Also, If the "R" stands for the mirror would not they have called the cameras Single Lens Reflects ?

However, if it [Reflex] means automatic then any camera with 1 lens that does not take a seperate shutter "cocking" lever (not including the film advance on 35mm) could be a "SLR" Remember the time this term originated {I believe pre 1960}. Also "Twin Lens Reflex" cameras were available at this time and they did not have flip up mirrors and if the mirror is the criteria than how can this be? They also had a crank or lever that advanced the film and "automatically" cocked the shutter.

After considerable thought and without having access to doccuments from this time period and not knowing where to look on the net My comments could be incorrect.

However, in common usage today the question is simple: any camera you want to put down is a "point-n-shoot" this seems to be without consideration of cost, quality, design, or original intended purpose for the camera. Conversely, any camera you wish to pay homage to is a "SLR".

An example of theis is in 35mm. If it is not a Nikon or a Canon it's a point and shoot (Minoltas are extremely suspect and forget everything else).

This may seen a very cynical comment but it is very very often true.

dbargen · Nov 22, 2001

I thought about the cd1000, but the pixels are lower by quite a bit. It seemed like I wasn't making much of a step up from the fd84 with 1.3mp to the 2.1 or so of the 1000. But the zoom is terrific. However,, the price doesn't seem to have dropped on the 1000 too much. I wonder why?

Dale

Joo said:
Joo

dbargen said:

thanks!

dbargen said:

ezraorchard said:

ezra

Ger Bee said:

This sounds like too basic a question so I must assume you want to
use a Leica rangefinder and a few lenses but you are worried that
it may not suit your application?

So what is your intended market or application?

ezraorchard said:

What are the major differences between the two?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

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SLR vs Point and shoot

Bill Dewey

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dbargen

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dbargen

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ezra

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BobTrips

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Joo

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John Davis

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RJNedimyer

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dbargen

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