Has anyone tried this? G2 version of f8 trick !

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today, remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it. So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--Peace, Borami

I'm confused for about the 10th time today. Can't you just put the G2 into Av mode and do this? This is how I do it. It really helps on macro flash shots.

Borami said:

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Jason,

I think in Av mode, G2 automatically selects 1/60 for shutter speed. I haven't tried outdoor flash. Has anyone tried this: can i use faster than 1/60 in Av when there's enough lighting? Anyways, In Tv mode, the you have the option of keeping 1/250 and vary the aperture with e-ttl! So, when the subject is moving and you want fast shutter speed or want a greater DOF, and you also want automatic flash, Tv pushing is the way to go. Any other observation or comments?

Jason H. said:

Jason Hutchinson said:

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes, I have tried it and it worked many times. It is a trick I learned from a website but forgot which one. Here is the logics reasonings behind it: It has been awhile since I have read it so correct me if I am wrong.

-- In Tv mode, you have to use a very long shutter speed to get f8. This is not what we want because you want to use fast shutter speed to minimize blurring.

-- In Av mode, if you set f8, the camera will automatically select a very long shutter speed. This is not what we want either.

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed. Not a good choice either.

Fortunately the f8 flash trick works this way. In Tv mode, set the shutter speed to 1/1000. The camera will automatically set the Av to f8. When you press the shutter, the camera will adjust itself to 1/250 & f8. This works well for close-up, you get an all-around sharp picture with minimal blurring because of the fast shutter speed.

I hope what I described above is correct.

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip! Very neat trick/feature!

Paul

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Simon-Ph,

Are you refering to the well-known G1 trick? I was referring to G2's. I found when the same trck is done with G2, it behaves differently because G2 can select not only f2 and f8 (when using flash in Tv mode) but also other apertures in between them.

in Tv mode with flash (at wide angle),

Shutter setting/Shutter taken/Aperture taken
1000/250/f8
800/ 250/f7.1
640/ 250/f4.5
500/ 250/f2.8
400/ 250/f2.5
320/ 250/f2.2
250/ 250/f2

So, apertures of almost the whole range can be used with a fast shutter and e-ttl flash in Tv mode this way.

Simon-Ph said:

-- In Tv mode, you have to use a very long shutter speed to get f8.
This is not what we want because you want to use fast shutter speed
to minimize blurring.

-- In Av mode, if you set f8, the camera will automatically select
a very long shutter speed. This is not what we want either.

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will
fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed.
Not a good choice either.

Fortunately the f8 flash trick works this way. In Tv mode, set the
shutter speed to 1/1000. The camera will automatically set the Av
to f8. When you press the shutter, the camera will adjust itself
to 1/250 & f8. This works well for close-up, you get an all-around
sharp picture with minimal blurring because of the fast shutter
speed.

I hope what I described above is correct.

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In curiosity, i tried Av on my on and it worked. I shot a bright light source (ceiling light). G2 chooses up to 1/250 automatically according to the light condition in Aperture priority. So, that's nice to know. However, it's not the same as the Tv pushing trick I described. With Tv pushing trick, i know i get 1/250 in any light condition, where in Av i get 1/250 only when there is a lot of light (outdoors). So, shooting indoors and also want a fast shutter speed and greater DOF, I think the trick is still useful.

Borami said:

I think in Av mode, G2 automatically selects 1/60 for shutter
speed. I haven't tried outdoor flash. Has anyone tried this: can i
use faster than 1/60 in Av when there's enough lighting? Anyways,
In Tv mode, the you have the option of keeping 1/250 and vary the
aperture with e-ttl! So, when the subject is moving and you want
fast shutter speed or want a greater DOF, and you also want
automatic flash, Tv pushing is the way to go. Any other observation
or comments?

Jason H. said:

Borami said:

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Borami said:

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Click to expand...

Great trick. On my G1, it only seems to go from F2.0 straight to F8, but having E-TTL is much better than fooling around with manual flash settings with the 550EX.

Any other tricks with the G1? A web site maybe.

A post from someone familiar with these tips listing all of them would be great. My group flash photography just bumped up a notch.

Thanks.

I tried this on the Pro90 a while back and its still a nice trick. But the Pro90 in tv mode at 1/1000 set its back to 1/250 and f4 at any zoom range. I think this is still very good IMO this set at F4 is pretty close to the sweet spot. Also I tryed a few in manuel mode set at F8 and 1/1000 and the 420ex works well at bounce flash shots in large rooms.

Simon-Ph said:

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will
fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed.
Not a good choice either.

Click to expand...

But Why does it do this, surely it should cut off once correct exposure has been attained, just like on my EOS3?

I am quite dissapointed with the E-TTl flash implementation, but I've only had the G2 for a little over a week, so we'll see.

Ian.

The history of this issue is that the G-1 and G-2 use the shutter as the apeture mechanism too, so at high speeds (1/1000 sec) it has to open up really wide at F2 and can't accomplish this without damage at high speed. Therefore at the higher Tv speeds the apeture is limited in size. On the G-1 anything above the synch speed of 1/250 sec was automatically limited to F8. Obviously on the G-2 the designers listened to out complaints and have decided that at intermediate speeds of 1/250 to 1/1000 we can have intermediate maximum apetures graduating up to F8 depending upon the metering requirements.

In the Av mode, similar to the Tv mode, the camera thinks you are doing fill flash and meters the scene without the flash. In the G-1, if the scene were dim (ie evening indoors) this would result in a very long exposure (up to the default auto value of 1 sec). For a handheld flash shot at a small apeture (for greater DOF) this was a disaster with lots of blurring with typical shutters about 1/10 sec or so. With the G-2 they improved upon this: in Av the shutter speed will never drop below 1/60 with the flash on, even if the apeture is F8 and the metering (still in the fill flash mode) says it needs more light.
Regards, Mike K

Borami said:

Borami said:

I think in Av mode, G2 automatically selects 1/60 for shutter
speed. I haven't tried outdoor flash. Has anyone tried this: can i
use faster than 1/60 in Av when there's enough lighting? Anyways,
In Tv mode, the you have the option of keeping 1/250 and vary the
aperture with e-ttl! So, when the subject is moving and you want
fast shutter speed or want a greater DOF, and you also want
automatic flash, Tv pushing is the way to go. Any other observation
or comments?

Jason H. said:

Borami said:

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In Tv or Av mode is the flash alwasy set to fill or does it adjust output based on the camera's metering?

Scott

Mike K said:

Borami said:

Borami said:

I think in Av mode, G2 automatically selects 1/60 for shutter
speed. I haven't tried outdoor flash. Has anyone tried this: can i
use faster than 1/60 in Av when there's enough lighting? Anyways,
In Tv mode, the you have the option of keeping 1/250 and vary the
aperture with e-ttl! So, when the subject is moving and you want
fast shutter speed or want a greater DOF, and you also want
automatic flash, Tv pushing is the way to go. Any other observation
or comments?

Jason H. said:

Mike K said:

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi, the figures you present seem to be valid for the built-in G2 flash, With my 380 EX i get, strangely enough, somehow a bit "weaker" values:
1000/250/f8
800/250/f4
640/250/f2.8
500/250/f2.0
400/250/f2.0
...

Any explanation for this seeming inconsistency? Which flashes did you try it with? Johannes

Borami said:

Are you refering to the well-known G1 trick? I was referring to
G2's. I found when the same trck is done with G2, it behaves
differently because G2 can select not only f2 and f8 (when using
flash in Tv mode) but also other apertures in between them.

in Tv mode with flash (at wide angle),

Shutter setting/Shutter taken/Aperture taken
1000/250/f8
800/ 250/f7.1
640/ 250/f4.5
500/ 250/f2.8
400/ 250/f2.5
320/ 250/f2.2
250/ 250/f2

So, apertures of almost the whole range can be used with a fast
shutter and e-ttl flash in Tv mode this way.

Simon-Ph said:

-- In Tv mode, you have to use a very long shutter speed to get f8.
This is not what we want because you want to use fast shutter speed
to minimize blurring.

-- In Av mode, if you set f8, the camera will automatically select
a very long shutter speed. This is not what we want either.

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will
fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed.
Not a good choice either.

Fortunately the f8 flash trick works this way. In Tv mode, set the
shutter speed to 1/1000. The camera will automatically set the Av
to f8. When you press the shutter, the camera will adjust itself
to 1/250 & f8. This works well for close-up, you get an all-around
sharp picture with minimal blurring because of the fast shutter
speed.

I hope what I described above is correct.

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi Johannes,

I also own 380 ex, so I tried and gotten similar results as you got. Have no idea why though. The values I posted was using in-camera flash. But, I find they are not fixed. I get different values when I use spot metering. I havent tried it outdoors either but i will later when I get chance.

Johannes Müller said:

Borami said:

Are you refering to the well-known G1 trick? I was referring to
G2's. I found when the same trck is done with G2, it behaves
differently because G2 can select not only f2 and f8 (when using
flash in Tv mode) but also other apertures in between them.

in Tv mode with flash (at wide angle),

Shutter setting/Shutter taken/Aperture taken
1000/250/f8
800/ 250/f7.1
640/ 250/f4.5
500/ 250/f2.8
400/ 250/f2.5
320/ 250/f2.2
250/ 250/f2

So, apertures of almost the whole range can be used with a fast
shutter and e-ttl flash in Tv mode this way.

Simon-Ph said:

-- In Tv mode, you have to use a very long shutter speed to get f8.
This is not what we want because you want to use fast shutter speed
to minimize blurring.

-- In Av mode, if you set f8, the camera will automatically select
a very long shutter speed. This is not what we want either.

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will
fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed.
Not a good choice either.

Fortunately the f8 flash trick works this way. In Tv mode, set the
shutter speed to 1/1000. The camera will automatically set the Av
to f8. When you press the shutter, the camera will adjust itself
to 1/250 & f8. This works well for close-up, you get an all-around
sharp picture with minimal blurring because of the fast shutter
speed.

I hope what I described above is correct.

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Same for my 220ex flash, that is the" weaker" values.
Jim H.

Johannes Müller said:

Borami said:

Are you refering to the well-known G1 trick? I was referring to
G2's. I found when the same trck is done with G2, it behaves
differently because G2 can select not only f2 and f8 (when using
flash in Tv mode) but also other apertures in between them.

in Tv mode with flash (at wide angle),

Shutter setting/Shutter taken/Aperture taken
1000/250/f8
800/ 250/f7.1
640/ 250/f4.5
500/ 250/f2.8
400/ 250/f2.5
320/ 250/f2.2
250/ 250/f2

So, apertures of almost the whole range can be used with a fast
shutter and e-ttl flash in Tv mode this way.

Simon-Ph said:

-- In Tv mode, you have to use a very long shutter speed to get f8.
This is not what we want because you want to use fast shutter speed
to minimize blurring.

-- In Av mode, if you set f8, the camera will automatically select
a very long shutter speed. This is not what we want either.

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will
fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed.
Not a good choice either.

Fortunately the f8 flash trick works this way. In Tv mode, set the
shutter speed to 1/1000. The camera will automatically set the Av
to f8. When you press the shutter, the camera will adjust itself
to 1/250 & f8. This works well for close-up, you get an all-around
sharp picture with minimal blurring because of the fast shutter
speed.

I hope what I described above is correct.

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In Tv and Av the flash is set to flash fill based upon the ambient light. If you get over exposure from being too close, crank down the flash intensity with minus flash compensation. If the background is very bright and the subject in shade you may have to increase the flash compensation.
P mode is obviously different.

Scott Shields said:

Scott

Mike K said:

Borami said:

Borami said:

I think in Av mode, G2 automatically selects 1/60 for shutter
speed. I haven't tried outdoor flash. Has anyone tried this: can i
use faster than 1/60 in Av when there's enough lighting? Anyways,
In Tv mode, the you have the option of keeping 1/250 and vary the
aperture with e-ttl! So, when the subject is moving and you want
fast shutter speed or want a greater DOF, and you also want
automatic flash, Tv pushing is the way to go. Any other observation
or comments?

Jason H. said:

Scott Shields said:

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

NEWS:

As I have said elsewhere on this list, the answer is to use AV to choose the aperture you want, with a 550EX in the shoe the camera will choose 1/60s.

Ian.

Ian Leonard said:

Simon-Ph said:

-- In M mode, you can set 1/1000 & f8 manually but your flash will
fire at full power everytime, making your pictures overexposed.
Not a good choice either.

Click to expand...

But Why does it do this, surely it should cut off once correct
exposure has been attained, just like on my EOS3?

I am quite dissapointed with the E-TTl flash implementation, but
I've only had the G2 for a little over a week, so we'll see.

Ian.

Click to expand...

I did some tests last evening with my 420ex. The camera will take the shot at whatever aperture I set in Av mode, the shutter is never longer than 1/60 (according to the info in the histogram window), the camera will underexpose if the flash can't put out enough light, and if it can put out enough light, the flash will expose correctly. I tried apertures from f 2 to f 8.

Therefore, I don't see the need for this trick with the G2. What am I missing?

Thanks

Alan

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

See my description closer to the top of the thread for the reasons for this F8 limitation. It affects Tv above the flash synch of 1/250. In the G-1 any shutter faster than 1/250 with the flash on would give ONLY F8. The G-2 provides a graduated limitation in shutter/apeture combinations. The limitations in the Av mode with the flash were differenet, you would get ususable shutter speeds like 1 sec. with the G-1. The 1/60 is the G-2 fix.
Mike K

ALan Fairley said:

I did some tests last evening with my 420ex. The camera will take
the shot at whatever aperture I set in Av mode, the shutter is
never longer than 1/60 (according to the info in the histogram
window), the camera will underexpose if the flash can't put out
enough light, and if it can put out enough light, the flash will
expose correctly. I tried apertures from f 2 to f 8.

Therefore, I don't see the need for this trick with the G2. What
am I missing?

Thanks

Alan

Click to expand...

Alan,

Scenario: When shooting a moving object indoor like a child or pet or whatever, in Av mode, the camera wouldn't choose a shutter speed faster than 1/60. In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past 250, you get a fast sync speed (1/250 max) and possibly your desired aperture with e-ttl flash. So, the fast shutter speed sync with E-ttl flash is the point of this trick. a fast shutter speed can help freezing objects, so images may be sharper. Another advantage (if you intend this) is greater DOF w/ fast shutter if you want one assuming your flash can cover the distance with a small aperture. Hope this helps.

ALan Fairley said:

Therefore, I don't see the need for this trick with the G2. What
am I missing?

Thanks

Alan

Borami said:

I've been playing around with my G2 for about a week now. Today,
remembering the 'f8 trick' of G1, I gave a try w/ my G2. And I was
surprised at the result. I'm sure many other people had tried this
and are aware of this, but couldn't find a thread dealing with it.
So just wanted to share the excitement!

Results

In Tv mode, when you push shutter speed past the max flash sync
speed (1/250), the aperture was GRADUALLY adjusted from f2 (or
f2.2/f2.5) at 1/250 to f8 at 1/1000! However the graduation seemed
to depend on the lighting conditions (the better).

Now I can use many other apertures between wide open and f8 for
E-TTL flash! I compared different apertures using flash, and a
small aperture really improves the DOF significantly in flash
shots. Isn't that nice for group shots or something? G2 seems even
stronger in flash photography! Yay!

--
Peace, Borami

Click to expand...

Click to expand...