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1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160... etc... Nope.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ulysses
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Uly,

How long did you wait between shots for the flash to recharge?

Tigadee
Member said:
Ulysses wrote:
I tried shooting at:
1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160, 1/320, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000 second,
all at F4.0

These were shot in Manual mode as I was trying to see if I could
reproduce the problem with deepening blue with increasing shutter
speed and flash.

Here are my results on several tests:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292253091

--
Ulysses
http://www.pioneeris.net/ashton/F505V/megalist.htm
F505V Gallery Mega-List
Click to expand...
 
Tigadee said:
Uly,

How long did you wait between shots for the flash to recharge?
Click to expand...
I shot as soon as the thing had recorded to the Memory Stick. A couple seconds.

Why? Was that part of the issue discussed (as I may have missed that)?
 
I don't think so, although a weak flash used too soon before being fully recharged may have a bearing on the cause and effect of this post-fix BFS problem. But this is theoretical on my part anyway....

Tigadee
Member said:
Ulysses wrote:

I shot as soon as the thing had recorded to the Memory Stick. A
couple seconds.

Why? Was that part of the issue discussed (as I may have missed that)?
Click to expand...
 
Yep, it conceivable could. But my flash is firing strongly. This battery won't die!

I'm still on the same charge I had from last night's session in the cold tracking after Leonids. During much of that time, I left the EVF active rather than the LCD. Obviously no flash to draw power as I forced it off.
Tigadee said:
Tigadee
Tigadee said:
Ulysses wrote:

I shot as soon as the thing had recorded to the Memory Stick. A
couple seconds.

Why? Was that part of the issue discussed (as I may have missed that)?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hey Ulysses!

I check my camera with F4 and F5.6 and seems ok! you have the BFS fix? I don't...





Regards from BA
Charly
 
I ran through a series of tests to duplicate yours. At F4 color balance is slightly cool down to 1/20 and then gets warm. At F2 color balance is normal down to about 1/20 and then gets warm. I don't see anything particularly abnormal here.

Could distance to reflective white surface be a factor here? I was shooting from about 3 feet.
Ulysses said:
Tigadee said:
Uly,

How long did you wait between shots for the flash to recharge?
Click to expand...
I shot as soon as the thing had recorded to the Memory Stick. A
couple seconds.

Why? Was that part of the issue discussed (as I may have missed that)?
Click to expand...
 
Sorry for my bad english, but....what is "yum" or the expression "as in yum"??? Thanks

Regards from BA
Charly
Donniedark said:
Robert Holloway said:
Ulysses
I think you have a very nice fridge :-)
Rob
Click to expand...
Yeah... and those girls must all be sisters...they look
Identical... as in yum !
Don C
Donniedark said:
Charly Diaz Azcue said:
Hey Ulysses!
I check my camera with F4 and F5.6 and seems ok! you have the BFS
fix? I don't...





Regards from BA
Charly
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Ulysses said:
I tried shooting at:
1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160, 1/320, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000 second,
all at F4.0

These were shot in Manual mode as I was trying to see if I could
reproduce the problem with deepening blue with increasing shutter
speed and flash.

Here are my results on several tests:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292253091

--

Ulysses
http://www.pioneeris.net/ashton/F505V/megalist.htm
F505V Gallery Mega-List
Click to expand...
hi,

i find, that the flash is very powerfull(on indoor pic's), and i have many pictures with BFS, will send it in or a fix, right after my holidays :)

but if i use the "Shaytech Flash Enhancer" e.g. just bounch the flash i get a much better picture and i have yet to see on with BFS on any of them.

ymer
 
Ulysses,

I'm a bit confused. Why wouldn't there be extreme exposure variations from one shot to the next? How can they all be properly exposed? Is the flash varying its output power even in manual mode? That would be pretty cool if the TTL flash control even worked in manual mode! If this is true, what happens when you use the HVLF1000 external flash? Since it is not TTL, would the pictures in your example go from too dark to too light? Or does the camera communicate with the flash so that it adjusts itself via its own sensor?

So much to learn!
Ulysses said:
I tried shooting at:
1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160, 1/320, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000 second,
all at F4.0

These were shot in Manual mode as I was trying to see if I could
reproduce the problem with deepening blue with increasing shutter
speed and flash.

Here are my results on several tests:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292253091

--

Ulysses
http://www.pioneeris.net/ashton/F505V/megalist.htm
F505V Gallery Mega-List
Click to expand...
 
Bob. Millar said:
Ulysses,

I'm a bit confused. Why wouldn't there be extreme exposure
variations from one shot to the next? How can they all be properly
exposed?
Click to expand...
Simple: the duration of the pulse of light from an electronic flash is less than 1/1000 of a second. All those exposure times encompass the whole pulse, thus the integrated intensity (exposure) is identical for all shutter speeds.
Bob. Millar said:
Is the flash varying its output power even in manual mode?
That would be pretty cool if the TTL flash control even worked in
manual mode!
Click to expand...
I think it does.
Bob. Millar said:
If this is true, what happens when you use the
HVLF1000 external flash? Since it is not TTL, would the pictures in
your example go from too dark to too light? Or does the camera
communicate with the flash so that it adjusts itself via its own
sensor?
Click to expand...
The latter, I think.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 
David J. Littleboy said:
David J. Littleboy said:
Is the flash varying its output power even in manual mode?
That would be pretty cool if the TTL flash control even worked in
manual mode!
Click to expand...
I think it does.
Click to expand...
It definitely seems to do so.
David J. Littleboy said:
David J. Littleboy said:
If this is true, what happens when you use the
HVLF1000 external flash? Since it is not TTL, would the pictures in
your example go from too dark to too light? Or does the camera
communicate with the flash so that it adjusts itself via its own
sensor?
Click to expand...
The latter, I think.
Click to expand...
Again, they certainly seem to communicate together. See my most recent tests higher up in the thread, done with the external flash only moments ago. I'm uploading some samples as I type this.
 
Ulysses said:
David J. Littleboy said:
Member said:
Is the flash varying its output power even in manual mode?
That would be pretty cool if the TTL flash control even worked in
manual mode!
Click to expand...
I think it does.
Click to expand...
It definitely seems to do so.
Member said:
Member said:
If this is true, what happens when you use the
HVLF1000 external flash? Since it is not TTL, would the pictures in
your example go from too dark to too light? Or does the camera
communicate with the flash so that it adjusts itself via its own
sensor?
Click to expand...
The latter, I think.
Click to expand...
Again, they certainly seem to communicate together. See my most
recent tests higher up in the thread, done with the external flash
only moments ago. I'm uploading some samples as I type this.
Click to expand...
Ulysses:

The back and forth that you and David are exchanging is interesting. I have not done the extensive testing you have nor have I posted the pictures but I did run through all the settings in MANUAL + Flash ( both on-board and the HVL-F1000 ). My results and, hence my conclusions are the same as what you are discussing with David....I am convinced the camera "communicates" with both Flashes much in the manner you Two have concluded.
Now if only the LCD did not darken during the composure cycle....!
Don C
 
Ulysses said:
I tried shooting at:
1/20, 1/40, 1/80, 1/160, 1/320, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000 second,
all at F4.0
Click to expand...
OK, the test remains the same. The images are done with daylight coming through shuttered windows. Therefore, the ambient lighting of each room varies greatly.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292252437

NOTICE how the shots taken in the room with the reddish/brownish/yellowish highlights are greatly affected by the predominantly yellowish ambient light of the room. Therefore, after 1/80s or faster, the images would consistently take on a bluish-green cast (note also that the flash itself is a rather cool colored flash). However, this was ONLY IN THIS ROOM that this occured. And when the shift occurs (always at 1/80s or faster in this room) the shift stayed relatively stable for all faster speeds after that. Very curious. Clearly, the camera is working hard to figure out the lighting in this room and the metering/exposure is giving it a couple of headaches here. It's not extreme, but it is interesting. And repeatable, as you can see in my samples. I was surprised at this and repeated it several times.

In the other rooms, where things are more neutral to begin with in terms of lighting and room color, the camera has a much easier time, and seems to be relatively free of any real trouble.

Conclusions I draw: The DA is doing a decent job with its flash, both internal and external. However, lighting and exposure is a very complicated thing. External factors such as ambient lighting are going to affect the camera. Getting to know your camera and being able to "see" your conditions before the shot will help you to get the best shots possible.
 
Donniedark said:
The back and forth that you and David are exchanging is
interesting. I have not done the extensive testing you have nor
have I posted the pictures but I did run through all the settings
in MANUAL + Flash ( both on-board and the HVL-F1000 ). My results
and, hence my conclusions are the same as what you are discussing
with David....I am convinced the camera "communicates" with both
Flashes much in the manner you Two have concluded.
Click to expand...
See the new post with many external samples at:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&page=1&message=1781925
Donniedark said:
Now if only the LCD did not darken during the composure cycle....!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know. Clearly the camera is ABLE to do this, as we see it brightening sufficiently during its focus procedure. However it's not being allowed to maintain that view for more than a split second. For now, it's what we have to put up with when in medium conditions.

I wonder, though, how often do most need to actually do this (shoot in Manual with a small aperture and high shutter speeds). I'd like it changed, too. But I would guess that most users are not going to run into this very often, which is why the conversation about this tends to find its focus with only a narrow group of us. Hopefully it's still seen as important enough by Sony to make for a change in their next cameras. After saturation control, it's probably one I'd place near next in the list.
 
Ulysses said:
Member said:
Now if only the LCD did not darken during the composure cycle....!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know. Clearly the camera is ABLE to do this, as we see it
brightening sufficiently during its focus procedure. However it's
not being allowed to maintain that view for more than a split
second. For now, it's what we have to put up with when in medium
conditions.
Click to expand...
I'll take a stab at this one, assuming we're all talking about the same thing. During composure, the camera increases ISO sensitivity (seems even higher than 400!) to get some light to the sensor, then after the calculation returns to the "live view", which is how the picture would look if taken without flash.

I think to maintain that bright framing view the display would have to freeze the screen, and that wouldn't allow us to maintain proper framing of the subject.

I don't think the display could maintain the bright composure view since the sensor is now prepared for the shot at the designated ISO. I guess Sony could change this, but I wonder if it would delay the shot.

Herb
 
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