Nikon vs. Canon DSLR's

  • Thread starter Thread starter Walter Freiberger
  • Start date Start date
Given your list above I would conclude that Canon is for
photographers and Nikon is for gadgeteers.
What good is a noise free image if the camera fails to autofocus
accurately with any lens faster than aperture 4?

Perhaps in the distorted reality of Canon, this is what
photographers want.
You said that Canon wins on pixel count and noise. These are issues of image quality.

You said Nikon wins on autofocus & build. These are not issues of image quality.

From what you said, Canon offers better image quality but without the body gadgets.

I therefore concluded that, given your statements, that Canon is for those who want the best image quality while Nikon is for those who want "features".

I'd use manual focus only if this was the only way to get the best IQ. Fortunately I believe you are wrong. Nikon gives great IQ and Canon has great AF.

--
Tuktu Sijuktei
'Please tell me if the lens cap is on.'
 
Read the bottom part of this and you will see that there is a massive difference in opinion about the D200 outperforming even the older 20D. Let's not get too excite about the D200, good not great but not blowing the competitor out the door.

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-7891-8214-8216

Don't take this as a recommendation of the D200 over the 30D. For one, we've only used a preproduction 30D, and then only briefly. More importantly, we've shot the D200 and 20D side-by-side for available light basketball over several weekends this winter, and the 20D is by far the better camera for this purpose. Not only were the ISO 800 through ISO 3200 frames massively cleaner and more usable, the percentage of in-focus frames was signficantly higher. In fact, we've ruled out using the D200 for this sort of assigment again. So, we don't think Nikon has in the D200 a camera that's a clear winner over the upcoming 30D by any means.
 
Even though this an old post it's hard not to reply to these same old canon vs. nikon posts :)

The 1Ds Mark II isn't far superior to the Nikon D2X as you sugest. First of all the price difference alone is insane, second the D2X is a much more flexible camera which you can use both for high quality studio work and for sports(and yes even though at top speed it is "only" 6.8MP the difference between that an 8MP is a theoretical difference and not something you will ever notice in daily use - If we focus just on theory and not practical well that just plain stupid. You need to have things work for you in a practical way - who cares if a camera has 1 billion MP if you dont EVER need it - It's just company hype - Be real.), the 1Ds Mark II has problems with soft edges which to me is a HUGE deal. A whole other point would be the countless tests that have been done showing that the D2X acutally is capable of surpassing the Canon in detail in alot of situations.

And dont even get me started in the usability of Canon vs. Nikon - Canon is simply lightyears away in that department.

So yes if you want a sligtly higher res camera, which cant really be used for sport or other fast scenarios(which means you have to buy an extra camera making this even more insanely expensive), has problems with soft edges, has some rather annoying things in the usability section(something which is very important when you spend 10 hours a day with the thing) and which is HIGHLY overpriced - Well yeah, then you need the Canon even though the prints you can make from both cameras are more or less the same.

And no i dont hate Canon - Hell i have shot more pictures with Canon than i have with Nikon. I choose what in my opinion is the absolute best on the market and at present time that is the D2X - It's fairly priced, it's insanely fast, i can do anything from sports to concert photography to VERY high quality studio work which would satisfy any client needs, i can do billboards if i need to. All this for almost half the price of the canon :)

Another point is that i believe Canon is on the way with a competing model to the D2X which also has the dual "heads" of fast high res and super fast "half" res and then we are talking. Canon is though superior in low level noise in high ISO shots.

What i dont understand is why Nikon dosn't release a firmware update which improves on the noise on the high iso shots. Not that they arent usable but it would be very nice to have something as clean as Canon or closely - If they did that the wouldnt be any contest.
 
i guess the lack of cable release was the biggest reasons for
getting 90% terrible shots w/my D70 and my biggest priority going
for the D200. all my shots have dramatically improved just b/c i
have a cable release option which I rarely use. the $10 wireless
remote for D70 was usless and would shake the camera more whenever
i tried using it in rare occasions.
Thanks! I had a chuckle :)
For great shots w/D70, I do give credit to impressive AF, metering
and availablility of spot metering in all focus areas (inherent
thoughout N bodies).. and yes the availability of great and
affordable lenses between the range of 18-200mm.
Yes, he actually forgot spot metering :) Isn't that the funniest thing!!

Janne Mankila
 
I am a photographer Bernie.
Well, that's hard to believe since you failed to do anything but insult me across three different subthreads.

Bet let's get back to business
I use Nikon film, Canon full frame digital, Hasselblad panoramic
35mm, Wista 4x5.....
I use Canon and Nikon. I don't use Minolta anymore, but I sometimes use Rollei 35. I do not use 6*6 or the likes (well, I do have a MAT 124 which I don't like to include as I haven't used it for anything else but experiments).

If you are so bl@@dy convinced that Canon can AF well, why don't we trade our 5Ds (I also have a 350D and 20D to offer) or why don't you convince CPS to fix my cameras (as a photographer, without doubt, you must be a CPS member, right?)... because they sure weren't able to do so the last two times

The Canons focus acceptable on lenses slower than 3.5 - or should I say, at those f numbers I just can tell the difference.

The Canons will randomly focus on lenses faster than 2.0 (all the 1.8 and 1.4, that is). Sometimes it's right on, sometimes it's off. Ratio on:off about 60:40 maybe. Granted, it's always darn fast doing whatever it is doing.

Quite frankly, the 350D is absolutely rubbish, the 20D is better, the 5D is okay. Let's not do Canon vs. Nikon.

Take an Olympus E-1. It beats the cr@p out of Canon when it comes to AF accuracy. It's probably twice as slow, but it's never ever off.
 
Shouldn't that read Canons can't focus accurately with lenses with
a maximum aperture slower than F5.6?
no, depending on the body Canon's won't AF at all on lenses slower then f5.6
Otherwise how could anyone get a sharp shot with a Canon?
see, that's a really good question. I get 60% sharp on a 5D and Canon tells me that's allright. At least, they did nothing to fix the problem.

Whenever people claim Canon AF superiority, I can't help but LOL.

No, wait. Actuallay, I can't help by cry because based on my significant Canon experience since the glory days of the EOS 650 (which I still own, allthough it now has oil on the shutter) I don't have a clue what they are phantasizing about.
Or is that a distorted reality of a Nikon fanboy.
Don't call me 'boy'. Americans ought to know better than that.
BTW I use Nikon before you flame me, but have used a 5D (a great
machine)
Well, why don't you switch then?

BTW. I never flame, have never flamed and will never flame despite of verbal abuse by film_ruled and the like.
 
It helps when you do the math proberly ;) Nikon side would by your opinion be 3.5 and not 2.5 :)
 
They dont make pro DSLR's any longer and most people havent used Kodak pro DSLR's for several years.
 
Don't take this as a recommendation of the D200 over the 30D. For
one, we've only used a preproduction 30D, and then only briefly.
More importantly, we've shot the D200 and 20D side-by-side for
available light basketball over several weekends this winter, and
the 20D is by far the better camera for this purpose. Not only were
It says clearly that if you shoot available light basketball with ISO 800 to ISO 3200, you'd better get the 30D provided that the production modell is as good as the preproduction one used by Rob.

Hopefully, dude, you do your own tests in your own environment and decide based on that rather than follow the opinion of strangers in this forum.
 
Read the bottom part of this and you will see that there is a
massive difference in opinion about the D200 outperforming even the
older 20D. Let's not get too excite about the D200, good not great
but not blowing the competitor out the door.

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-7891-8214-8216

Don't take this as a recommendation of the D200 over the 30D. For
one, we've only used a preproduction 30D, and then only briefly.
More importantly, we've shot the D200 and 20D side-by-side for
available light basketball over several weekends this winter, and
the 20D is by far the better camera for this purpose. Not only were
the ISO 800 through ISO 3200 frames massively cleaner and more
usable, the percentage of in-focus frames was signficantly higher.
In fact, we've ruled out using the D200 for this sort of assigment
again. So, we don't think Nikon has in the D200 a camera that's a
clear winner over the upcoming 30D by any means.
That is a Canon-shooter, who thanks Canon at the end of the article.

But as you brought it up, the 5 fps of the D200 is a major advantage over the 5D if you shoot action (this thread is about 5D vs D200). The D200 is the best balanced camera for many. It has high resolution - not the highest but 10+ is plenty. It is fast, not the fastest, but 5 fps is plenty. It doesnt have as good high-ISO as Canons DSLRs, but its good enough for most uses. It has great build quality,not the highest, but amazing for the price. Its overall a very nice compact light-pro package with great versatility.
--

Updated jan 9: [ http://tri-xstories.blogspot.com/ ]
http://www.pbase.com/interactive
 
I am a photographer Bernie.
Well, that's hard to believe since you failed to do anything but
insult me across three different subthreads.
What good is a noise free image if the camera fails to autofocus accurately with any lens faster than > > aperture 4?
And you failed to do anything but make a blanket statement about your experience, as if it applies to everyone...
Bet let's get back to business
I use Nikon film, Canon full frame digital, Hasselblad panoramic
35mm, Wista 4x5.....
I use Canon and Nikon. I don't use Minolta anymore, but I sometimes
use Rollei 35. I do not use 6*6 or the likes (well, I do have a MAT
124 which I don't like to include as I haven't used it for anything
else but experiments).

If you are so bl@@dy convinced that Canon can AF well, why don't we
trade our 5Ds (I also have a 350D and 20D to offer) or why don't
you convince CPS to fix my cameras (as a photographer, without
doubt, you must be a CPS member, right?)... because they sure
weren't able to do so the last two times

The Canons focus acceptable on lenses slower than 3.5 - or should I
say, at those f numbers I just can tell the difference.

The Canons will randomly focus on lenses faster than 2.0 (all the
1.8 and 1.4, that is). Sometimes it's right on, sometimes it's off.
Ratio on:off about 60:40 maybe. Granted, it's always darn fast
doing whatever it is doing.

Quite frankly, the 350D is absolutely rubbish, the 20D is better,
the 5D is okay. Let's not do Canon vs. Nikon.
I have never owned a 350D, I'll take your word for it. The 20D in my experience is only fair at AF, not great.

The pair of 5D'S I own don't let me down. I use them routinely at 1.4-1.2 and they are dead on 90% of the time. Same with my 400 5.6.

I am truly sorry that you are having such a rough time w/ this, but making a blanket statement in a Nikon forum only fuels the BS factor on this site...
 
"Secondly. 1D MKII N - 8/8. Not even the D2X can compare to this field beast. If you shoot 8fps with Nikon , you get only 6.7MP and regardless whether you can see the difference or not, it is there. Not to mention that the Canon is less expensive too. Not to mention 1.3X multiplier vs. 1.5X on the Nikon (which makes your wide lenses more valuable)"

don't agree w/ you there..

I've owned both as well as d2h) and the diff is huge...

the raw file of 1d2n is about 8mb..the mere 6.7 mpixel d2x hcm file is 11.3 mb...the image detail is much better than the 1d2n file when enlarged or cropped...Also, the d2h is more comparative to the 1d2 file (detail wise)...at 6mb (d2h raw file) the detail and ability to crop appeared much more evenly compared...
 
...we may be a lot of things, but deluded isn't one of them. Nikon
DSLRs have always been heavier on the "features" than Canons, and
Canon users know this. On the other hand, Canon puts more R&D
dollars into sensors than Nikon and, generally, it shows in higher
image quality under a wider variety of conditions.
Then you haven't been around the last few years. Canon users always
brag about noise all the time and fullframe and AF speed (which is
particulary interesting given that Canon's AF ist just fast and
nothing else, e.g. like maybe accurate). There is not much else
simply because they don't have anything else to brag about.
See, I don't consider high ISO noise control a "feature." Rather, I'd call it a characteristic of Canon's CMOS sensors, which themselves are features. Likewise, I'd consider autofocus itself a feature; the speed and accuracy of the AF, I would consider characteristics of the AF system.

Meanwhile, Nikon users brag about more accurate AF, 1/3EV ISO steps, more comprehensive viewfinder information, more dedicated controls (ergonomics), higher build quality, greater color accuracy, more reliable Matrix metering, more reliable i-TTL flash metering, etc.

Yet, you say "noise" and AF speed are all Canon users have to brag about "because they don't have anything else to brag about", which sort of proves my point: Canon cameras have never been long on features, but have and continue to remain high on performance/image quality; whereas Nikons have much higher "feature" content.

As for which system caters more to photographers? Consider that the D200 is the first consumer-oriented AF Nikon, film or digital, to incorporate mirror lockup at all while consumer-oriented Canons have sported this "feature" as far back as the film-era EOS 10s (released 1990). Amateur Canon film cameras have also long facilitated the changing of films mid-roll by allowing the camera to be programmed to leave the film leader out of the cartridge after rewind. Other than the F5, no Nikon film cameras gave users this ability without requiring the cameras to be shipped to Nikon service centers for "reprogramming." Considering we all acknowledge the benefit of being able to vary ISO according to the needs of the subject as well as the importance of mirror lockup in achieve critically sharp images with telephoto and macro lenses, one wonders what these long-standing omissions portend for Nikon's view of its user base.

Hmmm.
Also Canon users always post about AF problems. We heave seen those
messages for three generations of Canon DSLR cameras.

use the forum search for details
--
Garland Cary
 
...we may be a lot of things, but deluded isn't one of them. Nikon
DSLRs have always been heavier on the "features" than Canons, and
Canon users know this. On the other hand, Canon puts more R&D
dollars into sensors than Nikon and, generally, it shows in higher
image quality under a wider variety of conditions.
Then you haven't been around the last few years. Canon users always
brag about noise all the time and fullframe and AF speed (which is
particulary interesting given that Canon's AF ist just fast and
nothing else, e.g. like maybe accurate). There is not much else
simply because they don't have anything else to brag about.
See, I don't consider high ISO noise control a "feature." Rather,
I'd call it a characteristic of Canon's CMOS sensors, which
themselves are features. Likewise, I'd consider autofocus itself a
feature; the speed and accuracy of the AF, I would consider
characteristics of the AF system.

Meanwhile, Nikon users brag about more accurate AF, 1/3EV ISO
steps, more comprehensive viewfinder information, more dedicated
controls (ergonomics), higher build quality, greater color
accuracy, more reliable Matrix metering, more reliable i-TTL flash
metering, etc.

Yet, you say "noise" and AF speed are all Canon users have to brag
about "because they don't have anything else to brag about", which
sort of proves my point: Canon cameras have never been long on
features, but have and continue to remain high on
performance/image quality; whereas Nikons have much higher
"feature" content.

As for which system caters more to photographers? Consider that the
D200 is the first consumer-oriented AF Nikon, film or digital, to
incorporate mirror lockup at all while consumer-oriented Canons
have sported this "feature" as far back as the film-era EOS 10s
(released 1990). Amateur Canon film cameras have also long
facilitated the changing of films mid-roll by allowing the camera
to be programmed to leave the film leader out of the cartridge
after rewind. Other than the F5, no Nikon film cameras gave users
this ability without requiring the cameras to be shipped to Nikon
service centers for "reprogramming." Considering we all acknowledge
the benefit of being able to vary ISO according to the needs of the
subject as well as the importance of mirror lockup in achieve
critically sharp images with telephoto and macro lenses, one
wonders what these long-standing omissions portend for Nikon's view
of its user base.

Hmmm.
Also Canon users always post about AF problems. We heave seen those
messages for three generations of Canon DSLR cameras.

use the forum search for details
--
Garland Cary
Actually, I could set mirror lockup on my FE in the early 80's. Just set the self timer and push the release. The mirror locked up until the timer expired and took the picture. Very simple and it did not take some convoluted menu to achieve it. Canon makes great cameras, Nikon makes great cameras. Why do you spend so much time in this forum talking about how great Canon is. Very few people dispute that Canon makes great cameras. Both brands have their strong points and weak points. The D200 had or to some peoples view, banding problems. I am starting to see more and more people in Canon forums complaining about dust problems in their 30D. Some say its a continuation of the same problem in the 20D or 5D. I don't know. Don't own one. Its probably overblown. Why not spend time on learning to use your own gear instead of wasting time on a thread like this. Canon v Nikon is a pointless debate. For too many its like debating religion. No one wins.

Kind Regards,

--
JR
 
As for which system caters more to photographers? Consider that the
D200 is the first consumer-oriented AF Nikon, film or digital, to
incorporate mirror lockup at all while consumer-oriented Canons
have sported this "feature" as far back as the film-era EOS 10s
(released 1990). Amateur Canon film cameras have also long
facilitated the changing of films mid-roll by allowing the camera
to be programmed to leave the film leader out of the cartridge
after rewind. Other than the F5, no Nikon film cameras gave users
this ability without requiring the cameras to be shipped to Nikon
service centers for "reprogramming."
My F3 had a special back that had this ability with the MD4 motordrive (fantastic smooth and fast drive BTW)
--
Garland Cary
--

Updated jan 9: [ http://tri-xstories.blogspot.com/ ]
http://www.pbase.com/interactive
 
...we may be a lot of things, but deluded isn't one of them. Nikon
DSLRs have always been heavier on the "features" than Canons, and
Canon users know this. On the other hand, Canon puts more R&D
dollars into sensors than Nikon and, generally, it shows in higher
image quality under a wider variety of conditions.
Then you haven't been around the last few years. Canon users always
brag about noise all the time and fullframe and AF speed (which is
particulary interesting given that Canon's AF ist just fast and
nothing else, e.g. like maybe accurate). There is not much else
simply because they don't have anything else to brag about.
See, I don't consider high ISO noise control a "feature." Rather,
I'd call it a characteristic of Canon's CMOS sensors, which
themselves are features. Likewise, I'd consider autofocus itself a
feature; the speed and accuracy of the AF, I would consider
characteristics of the AF system.

Meanwhile, Nikon users brag about more accurate AF, 1/3EV ISO
steps, more comprehensive viewfinder information, more dedicated
controls (ergonomics), higher build quality, greater color
accuracy, more reliable Matrix metering, more reliable i-TTL flash
metering, etc.

Yet, you say "noise" and AF speed are all Canon users have to brag
about "because they don't have anything else to brag about", which
sort of proves my point: Canon cameras have never been long on
features, but have and continue to remain high on
performance/image quality; whereas Nikons have much higher
"feature" content.

As for which system caters more to photographers? Consider that the
D200 is the first consumer-oriented AF Nikon, film or digital, to
incorporate mirror lockup at all while consumer-oriented Canons
have sported this "feature" as far back as the film-era EOS 10s
(released 1990). Amateur Canon film cameras have also long
facilitated the changing of films mid-roll by allowing the camera
to be programmed to leave the film leader out of the cartridge
after rewind. Other than the F5, no Nikon film cameras gave users
this ability without requiring the cameras to be shipped to Nikon
service centers for "reprogramming." Considering we all acknowledge
the benefit of being able to vary ISO according to the needs of the
subject as well as the importance of mirror lockup in achieve
critically sharp images with telephoto and macro lenses, one
wonders what these long-standing omissions portend for Nikon's view
of its user base.

Hmmm.
Also Canon users always post about AF problems. We heave seen those
messages for three generations of Canon DSLR cameras.

use the forum search for details
--
Garland Cary
Actually, I could set mirror lockup on my FE in the early 80's.
Just set the self timer and push the release. The mirror locked up
until the timer expired and took the picture. Very simple and it
did not take some convoluted menu to achieve it. Canon makes great
cameras, Nikon makes great cameras. Why do you spend so much time
in this forum talking about how great Canon is. Very few people
dispute that Canon makes great cameras. Both brands have their
strong points and weak points. The D200 had or to some peoples
view, banding problems. I am starting to see more and more people
in Canon forums complaining about dust problems in their 30D. Some
say its a continuation of the same problem in the 20D or 5D. I
don't know. Don't own one. Its probably overblown. Why not spend
time on learning to use your own gear instead of wasting time on a
thread like this. Canon v Nikon is a pointless debate. For too many
its like debating religion. No one wins.
It's pretty plain to see if you look back at the post.

You are correct that both make great gear. I used Nikons alongside my Canons fairly consistently until I went exclusively digital for the small format. But that's MY opinion. Still, there are lots of misinformation being spread and, where possible, I like to take a shot at clearing it up.

--
Garland Cary
 
As for which system caters more to photographers? Consider that the
D200 is the first consumer-oriented AF Nikon, film or digital, to
incorporate mirror lockup at all while consumer-oriented Canons
have sported this "feature" as far back as the film-era EOS 10s
(released 1990). Amateur Canon film cameras have also long
facilitated the changing of films mid-roll by allowing the camera
to be programmed to leave the film leader out of the cartridge
after rewind. Other than the F5, no Nikon film cameras gave users
this ability without requiring the cameras to be shipped to Nikon
service centers for "reprogramming."
My F3 had a special back that had this ability with the MD4
motordrive (fantastic smooth and fast drive BTW)
is quite a fine bit of engineering, I think. I've regretted selling mine since the moment exchanged it for far too little cash. Do you recall the name of the back you speak of which allowed the leader to be left out of the cartridge?

--
Garland Cary
 
I believe it was the MF-18

Regards,
--
JR
 

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