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Canon D30 Snobbery in rec.photo.digital

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Now that this thread is at 140 posts, I guess I'll do my part to help it reach the 150 post limit on threads. This will be #141.

Interesting thread. I'm glad to see that one can whip up as much 'zeal' at this forum as other forums. I've actually found it very entertaining with certain poster who own most cameras providing much of the entertainment.

Just 9 more posts to go. Who's going to help me close this thread with a bang?!?!?

Joo
Matti J. said:
Jim K said:
So lets see your stuff Matti. It certainly can't be worse then
Pekkers : ))
Click to expand...
Sorry to dissapoint you, there is nothing to see (yet), atleast
nothing comparing to the art of P. Saarinen. As a matter of fact it
would be "suicide" because if you cannot appreciate P. Saarinen's
superior work, my stuff would be just a target of even more wild
blind insults and I am a "selfrespecting photographer" too with
criticism enough for not to publish pics that are not in a level
that I demand from myself. Not yet. Unlike you, I can spot a good
photograph when I see it. I am still trying hard and still
learning. Well, I am not that bad, but I have my standards. But
when I do publish them, maybe I'll let you know.

This thread was not about my photography at all and suggesting
something like this is just an hopeless efford to steer the talk
from the original subject. Jim is out of bullets.

Cheers,
Matti J.
Click to expand...
 
Whoever put the word "SNOBBERY" in the title of this thread couldn't have known just how apropos it would be. I think it was prescient... sure describes what's going on here!
Joo said:
Now that this thread is at 140 posts, I guess I'll do my part to
help it reach the 150 post limit on threads. This will be #141.

Interesting thread. I'm glad to see that one can whip up as much
'zeal' at this forum as other forums. I've actually found it very
entertaining with certain poster who own most cameras providing
much of the entertainment.

Just 9 more posts to go. Who's going to help me close this thread
with a bang?!?!?

Joo
Click to expand...
 
Joo said:
Now that this thread is at 140 posts, I guess I'll do my part to
help it reach the 150 post limit on threads. This will be #141.

Interesting thread. I'm glad to see that one can whip up as much
'zeal' at this forum as other forums. I've actually found it very
entertaining with certain poster who own most cameras providing
much of the entertainment.

Just 9 more posts to go. Who's going to help me close this thread
with a bang?!?!?

Joo
Click to expand...
Just wonder what will cause the eventual banging sound? Maybe the 150th poster will hit his head against the ceiling? Perhaps the one will have his ego grown so big this will happen. It is getting exiting. This is some kind of lottery, isn't it. Gentlemen, cover your heads!

Cheers,
Matti J.
 
er, just stepped into this post at random but I never realised there was a dispute over the term!

Surely SLR means Single Lens Reflex? The 'single' referring to one lens used for both viewing and taking (as opposed to the Twin Lens reflex eg rolleiflex designs) and 'reflex' referring to an optical system used to transfer the optical image from the lens to viewfinder in such a way it allows the photographer to view the image through that lens. Is there a new definition I've missed recently?

regards

Dave
Matti J. said:
Pekka Saarinen said:
BTW: A side note to everlasting discussion if E-XX are SLR or not.
See what Phil thinks: go to
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp and check the first
dropdown list for "SLR" and search all and then to "SLR like" and
search all. Which list holds E10 and E20?

Seems that I am not the only one who considers an "SLR tag" to
contain more than just definition of one internal mirror.

Pekka
Click to expand...
Some camera publications introduced the word ZLR (fixed Zoom Lens
Reflex or so) some time ago and as some of the E-XX users (on this
forum) have stated it is quite appropriate gategory name for E-XX
and alikes.

Matti J.
Click to expand...
 
I remember seeing a technical review of a top flight brand name lens (it was either a Nikon or a Canon I forget which) compared to the bit of bent glass stuck on the front of the throwaway russian made lubitel TLR (which at the time cost about the same as a nikon/canon lens cap!).

The review concluded that whilst the branded lens was clearly vastly superior overall and when used in difficult conditions, but when used optimally i.e. well stopped down and avoiding flare situations, the lubitel was able to put up a performance that easily matched the branded lens. Interesting, I thought - puts a few things into perspective.

It is often seems to be the case with lenses that you have to pay a lot of money for all round superior glass; it also seems sometimes the case that you can get very good results with 'inferior' lenses. Most properly designed lenses can produce excellent results at the right aperture even if they lack the flexibility of top lenses. I would suspect that one thing you definately should hope for from top priced lenses is more consistency between samples and better QC.

Brand snobbery also seems to go a long way - looking at lenses on a well known test site I was intrigued to see that even well know and respected manufacturers produce the occasional poor model - but they still charge a lot for them.

I did some test shots the other day on my 4*5 using fine grained black and white film comparing my modern MC computer designed schneider 150mm lens against a 50 year old schneider lens. The results? Well stopped down and in favourable conditions there was no distingusihable difference on 10*8 prints!

No doubt on larger prints or in more hostile conditions the modern lens would win out - but for the most part it didn't really seem to matter.

I would be much more interested to see more high quality creative stuff shot on cheap gear than read endless missives from people who think their latest spy satelite lens can resolve an extra 0.000000001 line pairs....
Andrew Grant said:
The most expensive lens I have ever purchased is the 24mm TS/E. It
wasn't cheap but having Tilt/Shift on a digital body is a lot of
fun. It makes shooting small panoramas very easy.
DMillier said:
Andrew Grant27981 said:
D30 owners do not have to spend $10,000. Some very good Canon
lenses are quite in-expensive such as the 50/1.8 ($90) or the
70-200/F4 L zoom (around $600
Click to expand...
I would consider $600 to pretty expensive for a lens! The most
expensive lens I have ever bought (for a 35mm camera) cost £169 GBP
  • reasonable for a hobbyist.
I did pay quite a lot more for a Schneider lens for my large
format, but onece you are into the small volume market you have to
accept that the prices rise dramatically.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Wow! I thought it is the many replies that do not add anything
here that is keeping this long message alive.

Like this reply just did. It did not add anything but it does help kept it
alive. Hell, Dr Frankenstein only brought only brought to life his
creature only once. But here many other how can not kept their
hand off the keyboard and have to say something.

Many have intelligent and well thought-out messages here. Other
they complain about this long message and it makes you wonder
why they posted in the first place. I guess they cannot skip it,
including me.

My two cents

Bill
Kelly Vann said:
Joo said:
Now that this thread is at 140 posts, I guess I'll do my part to
help it reach the 150 post limit on threads. This will be #141.

Interesting thread. I'm glad to see that one can whip up as much
'zeal' at this forum as other forums. I've actually found it very
entertaining with certain poster who own most cameras providing
much of the entertainment.

Just 9 more posts to go. Who's going to help me close this thread
with a bang?!?!?

Joo
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Uhmm... how 'bout them Cubs???
Joo said:
Interesting thread. I'm glad to see that one can whip up as much
'zeal' at this forum as other forums. I've actually found it very
entertaining with certain poster who own most cameras providing
much of the entertainment.

Just 9 more posts to go. Who's going to help me close this thread
with a bang?!?!?

Joo
Matti J. said:
Jim K said:
So lets see your stuff Matti. It certainly can't be worse then
Pekkers : ))
Click to expand...
Sorry to dissapoint you, there is nothing to see (yet), atleast
nothing comparing to the art of P. Saarinen. As a matter of fact it
would be "suicide" because if you cannot appreciate P. Saarinen's
superior work, my stuff would be just a target of even more wild
blind insults and I am a "selfrespecting photographer" too with
criticism enough for not to publish pics that are not in a level
that I demand from myself. Not yet. Unlike you, I can spot a good
photograph when I see it. I am still trying hard and still
learning. Well, I am not that bad, but I have my standards. But
when I do publish them, maybe I'll let you know.

This thread was not about my photography at all and suggesting
something like this is just an hopeless efford to steer the talk
from the original subject. Jim is out of bullets.

Cheers,
Matti J.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
DMillier said:
er, just stepped into this post at random but I never realised
there was a dispute over the term!

Surely SLR means Single Lens Reflex? The 'single' referring to one
lens used for both viewing and taking (as opposed to the Twin Lens
reflex eg rolleiflex designs) and 'reflex' referring to an optical
system used to transfer the optical image from the lens to
viewfinder in such a way it allows the photographer to view the
image through that lens. Is there a new definition I've missed
recently?

regards

Dave
Click to expand...
For some of us there is a need for a distiction between interch. lens SLRs and SLR like.

Matti J.
 
Woohoo!!!!!

pssst when did Phil lift the 150 message limit. We used to run into it a lot at the Minolta Forum.

Joo
Matti J. said:
There is no 150 limit after all! Hey, we could continue this
forever...

Matti J.
Click to expand...
 
We could always go for the longest thread record. :)

Joo
Joo said:
pssst when did Phil lift the 150 message limit. We used to run
into it a lot at the Minolta Forum.

Joo
Matti J. said:
There is no 150 limit after all! Hey, we could continue this
forever...

Matti J.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hey Ted, my 2 cents is late too, but I thought I'd comment on what you said.

The fact that you already had a lens doesnt make the cost of taking a picture any less.

With the E20, you pay for the camera ($1600-1800) and you get to take a picture. With the D30, you pay for the camera (?? $2000-2500 ??) and you get a body. You either need to buy a lens or use an existing lens, but either way, the cost of that lens must be factored in. Not everyone has an EOS lens laying around.

On top of that, the Oly lens is very high quality and you can really compare the Oly lens to any cheap lens you can slap on the D30. Now I'm not saying your lens is bad - I DONT KNOW - I'm just saying that quality glass costs money.

Do you agree that starting costs with the D30 are MUCH greater than the E20 IF YOU HAVE NO PREVIOUS GLASS?

Regards,

GageFX
Ted B. said:
This is not an ANTI post against any camera. Just a correction to
a camera-cost figure.

My D30 cost me $2400. I already had a Tamron 28-300 lens and Canon
380 EX flash. My total cost to get the D30 was $2400. NOT
$10,000. But if I want to get a nice L lens, I can. Maybe a Sigma
15-35 wide angle, would be nice.

I have no argument against the Oly cameras, that is what I started
with, but to say it costs $10,000 to get a D30 is just nonsense.
That statement is the ONLY reason I posted this. Get real.

I really like my D30, and I'm sure Oly SLR owners really like their
cameras, and that's wonderful. But for someone who came from the
Canon film camers, the D30 makes PERFECT sense. A very economical
way to get into a high-end digicam. I considered the E series
Oly's but went with the D30 for a number of reasons, besides the
easy transfer of Canon equipment to the new camera.
Brian Mackey said:
Laurie, his tone is not wrong, but he is. the camera is a SLR,
everyone knows that the "D30-system" may be superior, if you can
afford it. But the camera itself is not. Since if you buy the E-20
you have a working camera, vs the D30 one does not. More $$$$$$ is
required

2.000 vs about 10,000
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Joo said:
We could always go for the longest thread record. :)

Joo
Click to expand...
The limit on this particular thread may have been moved up, because the subject matter here undoubtly have a far more important meaning to the human race (drum roll please): "D30 Snobbery in rec.photo.digital!!!" One of the most worse sins a human race can encounter! We are all horrified by the course of events in the civilization of The Great Camera Forum Land. Snobbery cannot be tolerated in any from! Period.

Concerned Matti J.
 
Well you need to invent a new term! Single Fixed Lens Reflex (SFLR)?? who's going to think of a gpod one?
Matti J. said:
DMillier said:
er, just stepped into this post at random but I never realised
there was a dispute over the term!

Surely SLR means Single Lens Reflex? The 'single' referring to one
lens used for both viewing and taking (as opposed to the Twin Lens
reflex eg rolleiflex designs) and 'reflex' referring to an optical
system used to transfer the optical image from the lens to
viewfinder in such a way it allows the photographer to view the
image through that lens. Is there a new definition I've missed
recently?

regards

Dave
Click to expand...
For some of us there is a need for a distiction between interch.
lens SLRs and SLR like.

Matti J.
Click to expand...
 
Matti J. said:
Jim K said:
So lets see your stuff Matti. It certainly can't be worse then
Pekkers : ))
Click to expand...
Sorry to dissapoint you, there is nothing to see (yet), atleast
nothing comparing to the art of P. Saarinen. As a matter of fact it
would be "suicide" because if you cannot appreciate P. Saarinen's
superior work, my stuff would be just a target of even more wild
blind insults and I am a "selfrespecting photographer" too with
criticism enough for not to publish pics that are not in a level
that I demand from myself. Not yet. Unlike you, I can spot a good
photograph when I see it. I am still trying hard and still
learning. Well, I am not that bad, but I have my standards. But
when I do publish them, maybe I'll let you know.

This thread was not about my photography at all and suggesting
something like this is just an hopeless efford to steer the talk
from the original subject. Jim is out of bullets.

Cheers,
Matti J.
Click to expand...
Well Matti, since you seem to want to critic my work, which i never said or claimed to be great as your idol Pekker, I though it would only be fair to see yours. Unlike Pekker, I never claimed to be an artisit or great. It has been you and Pekker that have decided to insult me, and for what? Just because I don't happen to find Pekkers work all that inspiring. So heaven help anyone who says anything negative about your Pekker I guess.

You make a good cheerleader/groupie for Pekker, but it was he who started this flame and insults and critic. If you and he can not take your own medice, why not just stop???

Regards,
Jim K
 
Matti J. said:
Joo said:
We could always go for the longest thread record. :)

Joo
Click to expand...
The limit on this particular thread may have been moved up, because
the subject matter here undoubtly have a far more important meaning
to the human race (drum roll please): "D30 Snobbery in
rec.photo.digital!!!" One of the most worse sins a human race can
encounter! We are all horrified by the course of events in the
civilization of The Great Camera Forum Land. Snobbery cannot be
tolerated in any from! Period.

Concerned Matti J.
Click to expand...
The limit is 200, so Matti you can do a few more cheers for your Pekker!

Jim K
 
Jim K53618 said:
The limit is 200, so Matti you can do a few more cheers for your
Pekker!

Jim K
Click to expand...
Pity - better has perished sooner. What's the wording - 6000 chars???

I'm long winded and have had to go on a diet recently but actually just cancelled some responses.
 
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