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4/3 sensor - enlargement possibility?

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gabgon

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I have followed some of the threads concerning the future of the 4/3 format and read some statements that Oly had boxed themselves in with the 4/3s format compared to Nikon and Canon because of their bigger sensors. First of all I will say that I don't agree with that statement but I have a question regarding whether or not the sensor can be made bigger. If Oly made their sensors bigger to eliminate noise what's the worst that could happen? We would only loose out somewhat on the 2X crop and perhaps it would go down to 1.3X - 1.5X or maybe it would be knocked down to no crop right? If this is possible, would the lenses still work as well as they do now or is this why they haven't enlarged the sensor?
 
The lenses cover a given image circle. You wouldn't gain much from growing the sensor outside it.
 
i think the lenses made for the 4/3 sensor are optimized for that size sensor
and they would not cover a larger size sensor.

i think that olympus made a mistake not going with a larger sensor size
even if it were 4z3 crop. it seems obvious by looking at the performance
of nikon/pentax/km and olympus that there are inherent problems with smaller
sensors and noise....unless you are canon who seem to be able to deal
with that problem nicely...!

i do think if canon can figure it out, eventually the rest of the camera
makers will figure it out, BUT it appears that larger sensors like the FF
size in the 1Ds has some real positives which should only be better
as technology gets better.

in the end most of us casual and pro shooters will be fine with small sensor
cameras for years to come.

wk
 
Well I believe that it could be done and the 4/3 mount retained. Look at the diameters of the rear element of the following lenses:

ZD 14-45mm zoom = 20mm
OM (i.e. 35mm film) 50mm f3.5 macro = 13mm

In addition the diameter of the OM and 4/3 camera mounts are the same (47mm).

Now if the 50mm (with it’s smaller rear element) can produce a 35x24mm image on film and can be used on a 4/3 camera via an adapter, then it must be possible for Olympus to produce digital lenses that can do the same. I suspect that in the not too distant future Olympus will produce lenses that are compatible with both 4/3 and FF sensors i.e. digital versions of Canon’s (and others’) legacy film lenses. It’s just that, given the apparent disappointing sales of the FF Canon EOS 5D (hence the current rebate) and the success of the rival (smaller sensor) Nikon D200, Olympus may see no need to develop such a camera for several years to come.
 
no. Impossible.
 
Why not? The opening in the mount is as large or larger than any other mount.
 
Hi,

The 4/3 lens mount is actually bigger than Nikon's F mount so a bigger sensor is possible. But it will have a different FOV when used with current ZD lenses. Olympus must go back to square one and introduce new lenses again and it would be physically bigger and wides will not be telecentric anymore. It's not a wise thing for Oly to do. I like 4/3 for what it is. Noise reduction will improve. I will wait.
Regards,
Alfred
 
Telecentricity is nice, but it is not a deal breaker...I mean...the image can still be taken.

Corner sharpness is important, but to some people, larger pixels are important.

What is the size of the image circle produced for 4/3?

I have seen it over a year ago...anyone know where that diagram is?
ALFREDUYB said:
Hi,
The 4/3 lens mount is actually bigger than Nikon's F mount so a
bigger sensor is possible. But it will have a different FOV when
used with current ZD lenses. Olympus must go back to square one and
introduce new lenses again and it would be physically bigger and
wides will not be telecentric anymore. It's not a wise thing for
Oly to do. I like 4/3 for what it is. Noise reduction will improve.
I will wait.
Regards,
Alfred
Click to expand...
 
the point of the 4/3rds system is to have lenses designed to the specified sensor size. So a larger sensor would mean that most current lenses would no longer work - at minimum they would vignette very ugly. So any change of the sensor size would in fact mean a new mount.

Peter
 
Telecentricity is nice, but it is not a deal breaker...I mean...the image can still be taken.

Corner sharpness is important

According to Olympus... corner sharpness is the whole point of going telecentric.
Regards,
Alfred
 
This might not be practical, but by moving the sensor position towards the lens, and so producing a larger image circle, would this not enable a larger sensor? Would it affect the focus? Sorry my brain's not up to working out these technicalities.
Regards, Bev.
 
to increase the sensor size is make it square. This is not going to happen.

I will cheerfully live with higher ISO noise in return for a smaller, lighter, cheaper system than C&N.

Unfortunately I'm not sure Oly understand that.

One gets the feeling the last attempt at an E1 replacement went head to head with C&N and (unsurprisingly) lost.
--
Unoffical DPReview OLY photo comp info here - go on, have a go...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=17525056

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.pbase.com/acam/
 
would also change the focus distance - that is how the EX-25 extension tube works. It is just a piece of metal which moves the attached lens further from the sensor and thus allows closer focussing.

Peter
 
Sure, sensor size is a factor, but there are many other factors at work. A Kodak CCD, similar to the ones used in the E-300, E-500, and E-1 would probably be noiser than the Canon CMOS sensor even if they were the same size. It will be interesting to see more substantial test of the noise charactaristics of the new E-330 with the LIVE-MOS sensor.

In any case, I think high-ISO noise issues are blown way out of proportion. The difference does not seem as HUGE between the brands as the pixel-peepers would like you to believe.
 
I agree. I previously posted my speculation that Oly dumped Kodak, and cancelled the 10 mp E-3 due to a noisy sensor, to design a new E-3 around a Panasonic sensor. That said, I also agree that the high ISO noise of my E-300 is not troubling at all.

Warren
steve16823 said:
Sure, sensor size is a factor, but there are many other factors at
work. A Kodak CCD, similar to the ones used in the E-300, E-500,
and E-1 would probably be noiser than the Canon CMOS sensor even if
they were the same size. It will be interesting to see more
substantial test of the noise charactaristics of the new E-330 with
the LIVE-MOS sensor.

In any case, I think high-ISO noise issues are blown way out of
proportion. The difference does not seem as HUGE between the
brands as the pixel-peepers would like you to believe.
Click to expand...
--
WarrenKK

PetPeeve: posting a 800x600 to show anything other than how soft my lens is or why I need new glasses.
 
The 4/3 standard is about compromises between price, size, weight, etc. These are things that will limit absolute quality in a camera regardless of price.
 
ALFREDUYB said:
Corner sharpness is important
Click to expand...
Proper exposure is MORE important. If your ISO level is not enough to get the proper exposure, then your sharp corners will be too dark to see.
ALFREDUYB said:
According to Olympus... corner sharpness is the whole point of
going telecentric.
Click to expand...
Yes, but I remember reading a blurb about how the LIVE MOS sensor is mroe forgiving to non-telecentric lenses; and the telecentric guidelines are becomming less stringent. This will no doubt increase the number of players int he 4/3 camp. Do you think that all those Sigma lenes being released meet the requirements of Olympus' telecentricity?

--

Life is like a roll of TOILET PAPER; the closer you get to the end, the faster it goes.
 
This is not exclusive to 4/3. Every camera design is about compromises between price, size, weight, etc.
Hacker said:
The 4/3 standard is about compromises between price, size, weight,
etc. These are things that will limit absolute quality in a camera
regardless of price.
Click to expand...
 
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