Nikon Should Punish Dealers Who Sell Short Suppy Items on eBay

DonAvebury said:

Everyone loves it when the price is discounted below list price,
but gets up in arms when it's above.

Sorry, guys, but supply and demand works in both directions.

Click to expand...

For individuals and pawn shops, yes. But authorized resellers have a responsibility to not sell items above the manufacturers suggested retail. Few products in this world hold their retail pricing as well as digital slrs and lenses. I'm not saying there is collusion, but prices are suprisingly stable over the life of a product. Given that, retail is a tough way to make a living. Suppliers want their hard working resellers to make a fair profit on their goods. One way they control market pricing is through availability. The deep discounter may find it difficult to receive fresh product on new goods they choose to sell at little or no profit. As an ex electronics retailer (pre-Ebay) who was on the cutting edge, it was painful to be selling high demand products at MSRP, especially given the competitive nature of 80% of your inventory and the high costs of doing business. Our policy was never to sell above MSRP. One time I did. My best customer was waiting for the first MiniDV camcorder and I quoted him an MSRP I'd read on the manufacturers web site. He was ecstatic to get the first one in town, maybe the country. A month later the mfgr published a lower MSRP without cost change or price drop. My customer never returned my phone calls and I never heard from him again. It's bad business, imho. Sell the Beanie Babies to your brother and let him put them on Ebay. If you're authorized, be responsible. If you're a lucky owner of an in demand product, make hay while the sun shines.

BigIggy
Oly C2100UZI, Nikon D70
'The only free cheese is in the trap.'
'Don't just stand there - CHANGE SOMETHING!'

Iggy, I just bought a NIB MB-D100 for $40 from Cameta Cameras via eBay.

Who do you think is taking the bath on that?

Hey Hogwash it's easy for you to say! Your'e all set while we sit in the weeds awaitin! Hava a good day----------------------------------eh. brandi

What I'm amazed at is the way the 18-200 is going for over 1000 dollars on ebay.

Wow. More than 1000 dollars for a plastic dx superzoom that extends about three feet from the barrel when you're zooming and will, as a result, not be as durable as some other lenses.

That 18-200 is not going to last as long as your Leica Summicron.

The only explanation is that it's a hot, hot techie fetish item.

So I'm hardly going to cry over rich techies pay a few hundred books more for the latest hot lens or a camera.

It's not as though someone's jacking up the price of food or medicine being exported to a war zone or anything.

Cultured Vulture said:

I would not pay higher than the MSRP for a hot item. However,
nobody is forcing me to. Gouging in a time of emergency or on
essential items is reprehensible and should be prosecuted. A camera
is not in that category. Besides, no one complains when
manufauturers have to discount to move items not selling to their
projection, like the 5D. As far as E-bay, for the most part I find
it useless. When it began it was much more useful. Now with the buy
it now and mostlly commercial sellers I find it worthless.

Regards,
--
JR

Click to expand...

First of all reprehensible does not equal illegal. You cannot prosecute reprehensible behavior, only illegal behavior. Secondly, MSRP actually stands for something. It's not "This is the one and only price". MSRP stands for Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price. Nikon, by law, can only suggest. Retailers are FREE (as in we live in a FREE country - a USA centric statement - that does apply to other locations, but not all locations) to charge whatever they can get, which will trend to market value over time.

How many people buy bottled water? Now that's gouging. The machine down the hall charges $1.25 for a 20oz. bottle of water. That's $4.00 a gallon, about 80% more than I recently payed for gasoline. Yet I can run it through my water filter at home and get equal quality for about 2-4 cents a gallon. It is neither illegal or immoral for the vendor to sell his water for that amount. It's apparently worth that much to some people, or he would not be able to sell it.

BTW: The statement that "we live in a free country" is somewhat misleading. True freedom is anarchy, and there are very few that prefer that condition. Our freedom is restricted by laws, customs, wealth and probably a plethora of other things. So, henceforth, "we live in a partially free country". ;-)
--

Cheers,
Eric

DonAvebury said:

Iggy, I just bought a NIB MB-D100 for $40 from Cameta Cameras via
eBay.

Who do you think is taking the bath on that?

Click to expand...

Don't know what that is but I'll give you $45 for it. ))

--
BigIggy
Oly C2100UZI, Nikon D70
'The only free cheese is in the trap.'
'Don't just stand there - CHANGE SOMETHING!'

BigIggy said:

DonAvebury said:

Everyone loves it when the price is discounted below list price,
but gets up in arms when it's above.

Sorry, guys, but supply and demand works in both directions.

Click to expand...

For individuals and pawn shops, yes. But authorized resellers have
a responsibility to not sell items above the manufacturers
suggested retail. Few products in this world hold their retail
pricing as well as digital slrs and lenses.

Click to expand...

Oh, baloney. Resellers, authorized or not, have a responsibility to their ownership to create an ongoing profit of sufficient quantity to keep said ownership satisfied. In the case of a corporate store, such as Best Buy, the ownership is the stockholders. In the case of Ma and Pa's Camera Shop, the ownership is Ma and Pa.

BigIggy said:

I'm not saying there
is collusion, but prices are suprisingly stable over the life of a
product.

Click to expand...

Collusion??? By the previous statement, you are essentially saying that the government should collude with manufacturers to set pricing, since resellers should not be allowed to set their own pricing based on market demand. Do you realize that Corporate Stock represents ownership of a product, a very small piece of a company. By your standard, since the vast majority of stock is bought and sold through resellers, the price should remain always constant (though you may equate stockbrokers and pawnshops, so that would make this example a legit exception). Therefore, the stock market would be a very bad investment (regardless of how you may consider it based on the current trend of allowing market pricing).

BigIggy said:

Given that, retail is a tough way to make a living.

Click to expand...

Especially if you aren't going to let market value determine price. Geez, you guys think the camera has a big markup. We're talking about maybe an extra 15% over MSRP. Back when I got a Nikon Coolpix 990, I got one of those little flexible leg tripods for it. I was getting my brother in law's pricing, since he worked for the company. It retailed for over $10. The charged me $0.99. Yup. Now that's markup.

BigIggy said:

Suppliers want their hard working resellers to make a fair profit
on their goods. One way they control market pricing is through
availability.

Click to expand...

Suppliers want to make money, period. They want their resellers to make money, because if they do not, they don't stay in business, and the supplier has to find new resellers. They don't give a darn if the reseller makes lots of money, in fact, they probably cheer them on.

BigIggy said:

The deep discounter may find it difficult to receive
fresh product on new goods they choose to sell at little or no
profit.

Click to expand...

Do they have internet on the moon??? You cannot be on the planet Earth. Lately, the people most likely to have product are the deep discounters (Best Buy and Circuit City). I suspect Samy's Camera is still selling D200's, but still only to preorders. Demand is just that high. And, BTW, they are selling at MSRP. They tried to sell me the 18-200VR over the market price, but I talked them down using market pressure.

BigIggy said:

As an ex electronics retailer (pre-Ebay) who was on the
cutting edge, it was painful to be selling high demand products at
MSRP, especially given the competitive nature of 80% of your
inventory and the high costs of doing business. Our policy was
never to sell above MSRP.

Click to expand...

Hence, Ex...

BigIggy said:

One time I did. My best customer was
waiting for the first MiniDV camcorder and I quoted him an MSRP I'd
read on the manufacturers web site. He was ecstatic to get the
first one in town, maybe the country. A month later the mfgr
published a lower MSRP without cost change or price drop. My
customer never returned my phone calls and I never heard from him
again. It's bad business, imho.

Click to expand...

If you have a phone number, you can get an address. If you have an address, you can mail a letter with a check. It's not about selling above MSRP. It's about meeting your customer's expectations. If you establish an expectation of selling at or below MSRP, then your customer will come to expect that, and to keep your customer, you must meet their expectation. If you establish a reputation for selling at or below market value, your customers will expect that. Yada, yada, yada... If you establish a reputation for selling at a high price point, but provide valuable services that your customers respect and value, then you have established yet another customer expectation.

BigIggy said:

Sell the Beanie Babies to your
brother and let him put them on Ebay. If you're authorized, be
responsible. If you're a lucky owner of an in demand product, make
hay while the sun shines.

BigIggy
Oly C2100UZI, Nikon D70
'The only free cheese is in the trap.'
'Don't just stand there - CHANGE SOMETHING!'

Click to expand...

--

Cheers,
Eric

erichlund said:

Cultured Vulture said:

I would not pay higher than the MSRP for a hot item. However,
nobody is forcing me to. Gouging in a time of emergency or on
essential items is reprehensible and should be prosecuted. A camera
is not in that category. Besides, no one complains when
manufauturers have to discount to move items not selling to their
projection, like the 5D. As far as E-bay, for the most part I find
it useless. When it began it was much more useful. Now with the buy
it now and mostlly commercial sellers I find it worthless.

Regards,
--
JR

Click to expand...

First of all reprehensible does not equal illegal. You cannot
prosecute reprehensible behavior, only illegal behavior. Secondly,
MSRP actually stands for something. It's not "This is the one and
only price". MSRP stands for Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail
Price. Nikon, by law, can only suggest. Retailers are FREE (as in
we live in a FREE country - a USA centric statement - that does
apply to other locations, but not all locations) to charge whatever
they can get, which will trend to market value over time.

How many people buy bottled water? Now that's gouging. The
machine down the hall charges $1.25 for a 20oz. bottle of water.
That's $4.00 a gallon, about 80% more than I recently payed for
gasoline. Yet I can run it through my water filter at home and get
equal quality for about 2-4 cents a gallon. It is neither illegal
or immoral for the vendor to sell his water for that amount. It's
apparently worth that much to some people, or he would not be able
to sell it.

BTW: The statement that "we live in a free country" is somewhat
misleading. True freedom is anarchy, and there are very few that
prefer that condition. Our freedom is restricted by laws, customs,
wealth and probably a plethora of other things. So, henceforth,
"we live in a partially free country". ;-)
--

Click to expand...

If a guy normally charges $4.00 a gallon for bottled water, so be it. However, what I was talking about is the same guy charging $20.00 a bottle in the aftermath of a hurricane. That is illegal in many states and is prosecuted. Yes that water might be worth $20.00 a gallon to a person who is thirsty, but it is immoral and illegal for him to charge that amount. Many states have similar laws regarding storm preparation supplies in the time leading up to a hurricane. I don't care what someone charges for a camera like the D200. If someone is foolish enough to pay more than list for it, thats their choice. I won't. Ticket scalpers are a great example of this. In some states that is legal, some not. If a guy wants to pay $10,000 to see the super bowl, I don't care. IMHO he is stupid, but it his money. What I don't want tolerated is price gouging that is illegal. By the way, where did you find gasoline for 8o cents a gallon lately.

Regards,

--
JR

One more thing on this issue. When you talk about MSRP you are right in that it is a suggested retail price. However, there are some brands that do enforce pricing. One example is Bose. They tell you what you sell their products for. If you violate their pricing guidelines and they catch you, no more product. They will not replenish your inventory. Like you said, they are free not to sell you their product. I understand many cosmetics are sold in the same way.

Regards,
--
JR

TPA Photoman said:

That concept is as old as our country...and it's what made this
country great economically. it's called supply and demand..

Click to expand...

Yup, in the fine tradition of "carpet baggers", ticket "scalpers" and "Reganomics". What are you, a Ferengi or just someone who will jack up prices in the aftermath of a hurricane?

TPA Photoman said:

So, GET OVER IT.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I think you need to take some of your own advice.
--
Best regards,
Jonathan Kardell
'Enlightenment isn't anywhere near as much fun as I thought it would be'

Some dealers are in out-of-the-mainstream markets that simply do not have local customer demand.

I remember back when the D100 was first released....and my regular suppliers - B&H and Adorama - had none in stock. I found a little camera store - Murphy's Photo in Appleton, Wisconsin - and bought from them. Appleton simply didn't offer the dealer any customers.

eBay helps those kinds of retailers be a little more "global".

Cheers,
John

--
http://www.snapdc.com

just don't give them your dollars.

Bud

TPA Photoman said:

so search on and quit whining.

Click to expand...

Is that all you can say?? To anyone?

The problem is that there are selfish idiots who take advantage of other peoples stupidity... Let's elaborate: by "a selfish idiot" I mean someone who goes and sells an unused product at 150% of the original price - by the "stupidity" I mean willingness to pay anything from a new toy just because it's a new toy and the fact that you afford one...

That is one heck of an exaggeration, I know... And I don't mean to insult anyone. But you've got to see the immorality in trying to take advantage from other peoples ignorance and impatience! Yes, money is a wonderful thing, but aren't there other things in life more valuable?? Like fairness and courtesy?? (I'm probably surrounded by yankees.. I give up.. forget what I asked...)

Janne Mankila

J Mankila wrote:
Yes,

J Mankila said:

money is a wonderful thing, but aren't there other things in life
more valuable?? Like fairness and courtesy?? (I'm probably
surrounded by yankees.. I give up.. forget what I asked...)

Janne Mankila

Click to expand...

Yep, you Finn's are models of fairness and courtesy. Us poor yanks could learn a lot from you. Why bring nationalism into this.
--
JR

J Mankila said:

That is one heck of an exaggeration, I know... And I don't mean to
insult anyone. But you've got to see the immorality in trying to
take advantage from other peoples ignorance and impatience! Yes,
money is a wonderful thing, but aren't there other things in life
more valuable?? Like fairness and courtesy??

Click to expand...

It is very moral that if I have money I can buy D200 for more but right now as opposed to hunting it and waiting for weeks or months. It's just very, very moral. That's the way it should be.

Cultured Vulture said:

Yep, you Finn's are models of fairness and courtesy. Us poor yanks
could learn a lot from you. Why bring nationalism into this.

Click to expand...

I didn't do it, d'ohh... It was the man I replied to... Here's what he said:

TPA Photoman:

""That concept is as old as our country...and it's what made this country great economically. it's called supply and demand....""

But sounds like you don't know a lot about us Finns... Were just as stupid as you are And mind you, you shouldn't make generalizations about a nation based on just one opinion... They should teach that in schools, geez...

Janne Mankila

nik1024 said:

J Mankila said:

That is one heck of an exaggeration, I know... And I don't mean to
insult anyone. But you've got to see the immorality in trying to
take advantage from other peoples ignorance and impatience! Yes,
money is a wonderful thing, but aren't there other things in life
more valuable?? Like fairness and courtesy??

Click to expand...

It is very moral that if I have money I can buy D200 for more but
right now as opposed to hunting it and waiting for weeks or months.
It's just very, very moral. That's the way it should be.

Click to expand...

You misunderstood my text... The question of morality was directed at the seller, while the question of ignorance and impatience at the buyer Don't take it so seriously, though - I know I was itching to get a D200 myself too, but I tried to stay calm about it and save hundreds of euros...

Janne Mankila

"this country"?????

This is a Brittish based web forum with many countries represented. Exactly which country are you referring to?

Dear all non-USA forum members, I apologize for the constant assumptions that keep being made by US members that everyone on this site lives in the US. Some of us know that we aren't the only ones in the world.

--
Jeff at http://photof.net or http://folkins.net

J Mankila said:

Cultured Vulture said:

Yep, you Finn's are models of fairness and courtesy. Us poor yanks
could learn a lot from you. Why bring nationalism into this.

Click to expand...

I didn't do it, d'ohh... It was the man I replied to... Here's what
he said:

TPA Photoman:
""That concept is as old as our country...and it's what made this
country great economically. it's called supply and demand....""

But sounds like you don't know a lot about us Finns... Were just as
stupid as you are And mind you, you shouldn't make
generalizations about a nation based on just one opinion... They
should teach that in schools, geez...

Janne Mankila

Click to expand...

No offense was intended. I prefer it when countries are left out of it. Of course I did bring it into the discussion with laws against certain types of price gouging. Having lived in several different areas of the world I have learned not to generalize. However you do sound like a person I would enjoy knowing. To the other poster that mentioned this not being a U.S. forum. You are right. One of the beauties of the forum is the diversity of opinion. However, I still don't get loose and lose. Them Brits act like they invented the language. LOL

Thanks,
--
JR

Personally, I would never pay more than retail for anything at anytime, regardless of how bad I wanted it. I recently tried to buy a Rolex Daytona SS watch and the authorized Rolex dealer said he would sell me one for about $2500.00 above Rolex's retail price. Now I have wanted one of these for years but told him no thanks, I wouild pay him retail if he wanted a sale, of course he refused . so be it I'll wait.. But I don't blame any dealer from trying to make an extra buck when things are short supplied. Sometimes thats what keeps them able to pay the rent. If you don't approve of this, don't buy it and if enough people don't buy, the prices will drop. I purchased my D200 from a authorized dealer in Boston at 1699.00 and could have had one 6 weeks ago online for 1999.00 but again refused to pay the vig. There are plenty of good honest authorized dealers around like the one I bought from who are more than willing to sell at a reasonable price hoping to build customers while at the same time pay their bills..

If you need one at msrp call Bromfield Camera in Boston, as of yesterday they had a few of these at $1699.00 I found them real easy to deal with and quite accomodating...
good luck