Photo Challenge #3!

R.J.
Thanks for voting for my "other" photo! (I also took "Vanessa" - my daughter).

I adhered to as many rules as I could: The photo WAS taken specifically for this competition, it WAS taken within the timeframe, but unfortunately I don't own a Sony camera, so the photo is not eligible - but I really appreciate your vote anyway.

It was quite a bit of effort to take.

I was thinking about what I could do for the competition, and came up with the idea of the bridge with the city lights behind at night.

I drew a line on a map and figured out where I needed to be to take such a shot, and headed off an hour before sunset with all my gear.

The nearest public access to my chosen spot didn't have the bridge and the city lined up, so I had to scramble about through people's back yards, over fences, and ended up perched on a cliff top behind a bush, with two digital cameras, tripod, lenses, batteries, torch, and a notebook computer (so I could check my work as I went. This was the last night of the competition, and if I wouldn't be able to "come back tomorrow" if I didn't get what I wanted tonight).

I was there for an hour and a half as the sun went down, experimenting with all possible settings on both cameras.

I found that the best time to take a shot such as this is about 25 minutes after sunset - there is just enough light to colour the sky and light up the boats. The shots I took after this weren't nearly as good.
I'm glad you liked it.

It's one of those shots that isn't much to look at in the thumbnail, but when you open up the full screen version it is spectacular.
It's one I am very proud of, and I will be entering it in other competitions.

Thanks

Graeme Falkner

R.J. said:

So many great photos: Chinese Garden Pond, Thru the Wet Window,
Vanessa, Waterfall -- really getting hard.

But since we can select but one, I vote for Night Bridge - it has a
quality that I can imagine appreciating over a long period.

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Carpe Diem:

I would be remiss indeed if I didn’t tell you how happy your comments made me.

I decided just a couple of months ago that I was no longer content to have people look at my photos and say “that’s nice”, I wanted people to feel something!

You are the first to say that you have felt something when looking at one of my photos, and you have no idea how happy I was when I read your post.

PS the colours weren’t all down to the 950, Photoshop helped a bit!

Thanks

Graeme Falkner

Carpe Diem said:

Two things to say:

1) Wow...some great photos were submitted. But I have to say that
the one that stirred me the most was the photo of the girl reaching
into the water, titled Vanessa. It honestly moved me. It reminds
me of the curiosity that all children inherently possess.
BEAUTIFUL!

In my opinion, it takes 1st place in both the "Happiness is..."
gallery, and the "Anything Wet" gallery.

Congragulations to whomever took the photo. Please post a link to
more of your material.

2) I have been debating getting the DSC-f707...a great camera, or
waiting and getting the Nikon CP 5000. I think that I just made my
decision. Although I like the features of the Sony more, Nikon
just has more gorgeous color reproduction. And to me, that is the
most important aspect.

When I first visited the galleries, I was under the impression that
all of the photos in the galleries were from f707s. As I looked at
the photo, Vanessa, I honestly thought to myself "If the f707 can
render color this well, then I have to get it." I was temporarily
stunned (but not suprised) to see that it was from a Nikon 950. Of
course the noise levels in the photo aren't on par with the Sony,
but the CP 5000 should take care of that.

Gotta love Nikon.

Cheers,

-Ian

P.S.
All comments welcome.

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Instead of limiting entries to full frame original out of the camera photos (never mind not being kind to those of us on a slow dial-up modem) it might be very informative to see both. Is there a way to have a link to the original if this is determined to be a requirement of entering the challenge?

Cropping is a large part of seeing and a lot could be learned from seeing the original photo, and the "entry" version where it's cropped and minimally adjusted, resized, etc.

Here's my definition of minimally adjusted. Resize, unsharp mask, levels, curve, hue, saturation, brightness, contrast, color balance adjustments and cropping.

When one starts layers, cloning, masking, using multiply, screen, hard light, soft light, dodging and burning in, etc., I then think it becomes an unfair advantage over people who are not power users of their software or have limited software to work with. Where should the line be drawn?

I'm sure a lot of photographers take photos with the intent of cropping out the parts that had to be included in the shoot for various reasons. For example, my 3X zoom just won't let me get close enough and I don't have a telephoto.

What about kids and cute animals? They have a way at tugging on heartstrings to the detriment of other photos.

How about some voting guidelines? I'm not saying we need judges, but did I count only 5 votes in all? I couldn't even find the thread to vote until the afternoon, my time. Can people vote more than once? Can people vote for their own photo?

Gee, look how a simple, let's have some fun taking pictures is starting to turn into a complexity.

What might make the challenge more interesting and informative is the idea and technical challenge behind it. For example, how did the winner conceive the concept of the shot and execute it, how about the runner up? If we keep with the original concept of showing what our cameras can do, it would be interesting to learn how to do it too.

Just a few thoughts thrown out there... I think the challenge is a great idea and with a few guidelines it could be even better.

Dee

KD said:

It's my comment or wish.

--KD

ZipperZ said:

6) Should all uploaded entries have name of ARTIST, date of PHOTO
and EXIF header?
my answer: yes!, I think we may not necessarily need to upload the
original because some here like to PH or crop their pics but i
think a request for the original to be uploaded is not much to ask.

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I tend to prefer Graeme's reasoning as far as post-camera processing in concerned. I guess it comes from spending too much time in a darkroom back when I was doing B&W film photography. Capturing the image in camera was only the beginning of the battle. The true battle was waged in the darkroom, transferring the image to paper, and using all available and appropriate darkroom techniques to take the image from being merely a xerox record of what the camera saw, to being a 'photograph.' To me, it would seem better that each photographer provide a short description of what, if any, post-camera processing was applied. Providing a link to an original to see how post-camera processing improved/affected the picture would be nice. To me, at least, this seems a great way to learn all aspects of producing a great photograph.

However, limiting entries to 'minimal' post-processing would be fine and beneficial.

Dee Golden said:

Cropping is a large part of seeing and a lot could be learned from
seeing the original photo, and the "entry" version where it's
cropped and minimally adjusted, resized, etc.

Here's my definition of minimally adjusted. Resize, unsharp mask,
levels, curve, hue, saturation, brightness, contrast, color balance
adjustments and cropping.

When one starts layers, cloning, masking, using multiply, screen,
hard light, soft light, dodging and burning in, etc., I then think
it becomes an unfair advantage over people who are not power users
of their software or have limited software to work with. Where
should the line be drawn?

I'm sure a lot of photographers take photos with the intent of
cropping out the parts that had to be included in the shoot for
various reasons. For example, my 3X zoom just won't let me get
close enough and I don't have a telephoto.

What about kids and cute animals? They have a way at tugging on
heartstrings to the detriment of other photos.

How about some voting guidelines? I'm not saying we need judges,
but did I count only 5 votes in all? I couldn't even find the
thread to vote until the afternoon, my time. Can people vote more
than once? Can people vote for their own photo?

Gee, look how a simple, let's have some fun taking pictures is
starting to turn into a complexity.

What might make the challenge more interesting and informative is
the idea and technical challenge behind it. For example, how did
the winner conceive the concept of the shot and execute it, how
about the runner up? If we keep with the original concept of
showing what our cameras can do, it would be interesting to learn
how to do it too.

Just a few thoughts thrown out there... I think the challenge is a
great idea and with a few guidelines it could be even better.

Dee

KD said:

It's my comment or wish.

--KD

ZipperZ said:

6) Should all uploaded entries have name of ARTIST, date of PHOTO
and EXIF header?
my answer: yes!, I think we may not necessarily need to upload the
original because some here like to PH or crop their pics but i
think a request for the original to be uploaded is not much to ask.

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But if we take that course of action then what about the people who have the best knowledge of the camera. They surely would have an advantage over those who do not. So then we would have to limit the camera to full auto and no zooming or focusing of any kind.

I think if the photo was made with a sony camera and then edited in whatever editor you like you will still satisfy the intent of seeing what sony cameras are capable of, digital photo and digital editors go hand in hand. Besides how many heavily manipulated photo's have you seen that really looked better than ones that have not been heavily altered.

One thing that could be done is if a photo has had editing, then simply specify what was done. That way if it turns out good, viewers can learn techniques they may not have considered before.

Shay

KD said:

It's my comment or wish.

--KD

ZipperZ said:

6) Should all uploaded entries have name of ARTIST, date of PHOTO
and EXIF header?
my answer: yes!, I think we may not necessarily need to upload the
original because some here like to PH or crop their pics but i
think a request for the original to be uploaded is not much to ask.

These are only suggestions guys and gals, open for comments and
lets all agree and bring this STF community to be envious of all
other forums.
cheers
Zip

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Hi Dee,

Dee Golden said:

Instead of limiting entries to full frame original out of the
camera photos (never mind not being kind to those of us on a slow
dial-up modem) it might be very informative to see both. Is there a
way to have a link to the original if this is determined to be a
requirement of entering the challenge?

I personally think people can upload anysize they wish and just be cooperative and accomadating if someone wishes to see fullsize. They can then make the request to the artist. easy!

Click to expand...

Dee Golden said:

Cropping is a large part of seeing and a lot could be learned from
seeing the original photo, and the "entry" version where it's
cropped and minimally adjusted, resized, etc.

My eyes are crooked so i periodically take a slanted pic and have to result to cropping. And again, a simple request to see the original should be granted. i agree with you

Click to expand...

Dee Golden said:

Here's my definition of minimally adjusted. Resize, unsharp mask,
levels, curve, hue, saturation, brightness, contrast, color balance
adjustments and cropping.
I would think most people will do these processes on a regular basis.

Click to expand...

Dee Golden said:

When one starts layers, cloning, masking, using multiply, screen,
hard light, soft light, dodging and burning in, etc., I then think
it becomes an unfair advantage over people who are not power users
of their software or have limited software to work with. Where
should the line be drawn?

I on the other hand welcome creative manipulation thru photoshop. As long as the manipulation is with photographs with a Sony digiCam. This photo challenge is first off designed to let all walks of life learn from other people. If there was no creative thinking we'd have 50 variations of plain ol sunsets. Im like you, i find it a bit intimitating and unnatural how someone can or even think of layering two or three different objects/scenes to make one. But my lack or appreciation for it is also my lack of understanding the processes involved to produce such images. I think theres nothing wrong with learning everything about photography and what you can do with your photos.

Click to expand...

Dee Golden said:

I'm sure a lot of photographers take photos with the intent of
cropping out the parts that had to be included in the shoot for
various reasons. For example, my 3X zoom just won't let me get
close enough and I don't have a telephoto.

Click to expand...

I dont know about you but, when i look at other peoples work, i dont wonder how many megapixels his camera had, or how big his zoom lens is. I look at composition, color, context, creativity etc. Im sure you do too.

Dee Golden said:

What about kids and cute animals? They have a way at tugging on
heartstrings to the detriment of other photos.

Click to expand...

someone's always gonna submit pics of kids and animals, you can't prevent that.

Dee Golden said:

How about some voting guidelines? I'm not saying we need judges,
but did I count only 5 votes in all? I couldn't even find the
thread to vote until the afternoon, my time. Can people vote more
than once? Can people vote for their own photo?

Yes, i also counted very few votes. I agree, theres gotta be a better way to get full participation. Even thou Michael declared a winner i felt compelled to get the opinons of the other members. I have no prob selecting the challenge title but there are voices that still need to be heard.

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And i think people can vote more than once. If you like 2 different photos, there should be no prob with voting for them both. And voting for your own photo is ok too. But it kinda makes no sence to me cause everyone will vote for thrie own pic. And when they do...where do we stand. every pic has 1 vote each and were no further.

Dee Golden said:

Gee, look how a simple, let's have some fun taking pictures is
starting to turn into a complexity.
yup...its gonna get more complex as we go.

Click to expand...

Dee Golden said:

What might make the challenge more interesting and informative is
the idea and technical challenge behind it. For example, how did
the winner conceive the concept of the shot and execute it, how
about the runner up? If we keep with the original concept of
showing what our cameras can do, it would be interesting to learn
how to do it too.

Click to expand...

Yes, excellent idea. The winner shold explain how he achieved the pic is there was creative thinking behind it.
And nobody ever remembers 2nd place/runner-up. Were just doing this for fun.

Dee Golden said:

Just a few thoughts thrown out there... I think the challenge is a
great idea and with a few guidelines it could be even better.

Dee

i just wanna have fun. And i think my froggy had more fun that i did. He got rewarded 3 crickets

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cheers
Zip

ZipperZ said:

ZipperZ said:

i just wanna have fun. And i think my froggy had more fun that i did. He got rewarded 3 crickets

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cheers
Zip

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Hi Zip!

I think most everyone is in basic agreement about the Challenge -- and I forgot to say I don't consider "straightening" the photo or rotating it to be more than minimal processing. I try and I try but that crooked horizon gets captured more than I want to know

So, can we see some of the froggy shots you didn't post? And just how did you achieve your photo? Do I remember reading something about holding your breath? Where was the camera? Looking forward to reading about the progression from concept to finish!

Regarding Photo Collage and heavy photo touching, I suspect some participants might be intimidated by that kind of entry. Where do we draw the line between photograph and "digital art?" And I think a digital art Challenge would be really interesting, just not sure it should be combined. What's wrong with more than one challenge in the forum???

I'm looking forward to the next subject.

Dee

Thanks angela for your nice comments----Yes the entries were quite good this time. I'm hoping they just keep things simple with the rules for the future.

MAC

angela said:

MAC said:

Nice Shot Dee!

MAC

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My vote is for Sunset over Hobson Bay. I'm a sucker for sunsets...lol

Michael Hackney said:

Well, in keeping with the 3 week tradition - I get to pick the
topic for Challenge 3! I'd like to thank the Academy, anyone who
has ever taken a photograph and most of all, my kids and their
friends, for catapulting me to this honor!

But seriously... I've taken on the task of organizing these
challenges by creating an account and a process/structure on
http://www.pbase.com so we have an easier to manage challenge. Plus, we
get to capture all of the great photos folks have submitted!

I created an account called stfchallenge with a password of
stfpost. I've also created 3 galleries:

Challenge 1: happiness is... (no photos uploaded yet)
Challenge 2: my favorite thing about Halloween is... (only my photo
uploaded)
Challenge 3: anything wet...

So, my challenge to you is to take lots of photos of water -
rivers, lakes, puddles, ponds, rain, wet dogs, whatever - as long
as it's wet! Pictures must have been taken on or after 11/3/2001
and the contest closes at midnight EST on 11/11/2001.

Have fun! Post your own photo.

Michael

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Hey Dee,
Heres how i made my pic.
PROPS:
1 3x4' plate of glass
2 tall bar chairs
2 stand-up grass props(plastic grass)
1 food looking Albino Horned froggy

ELEMENTS:

wanted a blue sky with lots of clouds for effect. The finished pic went thru photoshop and i punched up the color and lowered the brightness down a tad and unsharp masked of course.

EXECUTION:

I took the 2 bar chairs outside and placed them about 3.5 feet apart. I then brought out the plate glass and placed it on top of the bar chairs. Then i put froggy in the middle of the glass and placed the 2 plastic grass stand-up props behind the froggy. The next stage was to go underneath the glass plate and shoot upwards showing the grass and sky and giving the impression im underwater. Me holding my breathe was me trying to be funny. ha..ha..

i'll post small pics so they will all fit
Heres the star of the show and his domain



He wishes he had a diving board



This is him during the set up



All the others are him hopping around on me. You cant get good help anymore these days....sheeesh.











i sure had fun....i was laughing all the while shooting him...lol

Dee Golden said:

Hi Zip!

I think most everyone is in basic agreement about the Challenge --
and I forgot to say I don't consider "straightening" the photo or
rotating it to be more than minimal processing. I try and I try but
that crooked horizon gets captured more than I want to know

So, can we see some of the froggy shots you didn't post? And just
how did you achieve your photo? Do I remember reading something
about holding your breath? Where was the camera? Looking forward to
reading about the progression from concept to finish!

Regarding Photo Collage and heavy photo touching, I suspect some
participants might be intimidated by that kind of entry. Where do
we draw the line between photograph and "digital art?" And I think
a digital art Challenge would be really interesting, just not sure
it should be combined. What's wrong with more than one challenge in
the forum???

I'm looking forward to the next subject.

Dee

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Woo Hoo Woo Hoo Woo Hoo

That's three out of three for me: I'm a happy man!!!!!

Sorry for the unrestrained glee, but when I entered my three shots, I didn't expect each one of them to get a vote.... although I was wondering why no one mentioned the sunset shot, I thought it was quite good.

In case my other messages are too buried in this thread for you to dig up, my other entries were:
Vanessa
Sunset over Hobson Bay
Night Bridge.

In the end, they were all ruled ineligible as I don't own a Sony, but it has been very informative seeing the reaction I got to my shots.

I've promised to behave from now on, and won't post any more entries unless "other" brand cameras are specifically allowed in the rules.

For making my day I'll offer to send you a 10" x 13.3" print of the sunset shot should you want it (for free of course). Even though it's only a 2Mp shot, it looks fantastic blown up to that size!

Graeme Falkner

Randy D said:

Randy D wrote:
My vote is for Sunset over Hobson Bay. I'm a sucker for sunsets...lol

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Its 10pmEST now and i know you made a decison and crowned my pic as winner of Challenge#3 but i felt some people may not have been heard so i started a thread to get people to vote and again there was little interest.
So i guess ill just decide on the next challenge topic unless someone objects.
thanks anyways...i had fun

Mihcael Hackney said:

Wow, 38 photos and lot's of discussion! I agree that we need to
take these challenges to the next level and have simple, easy to
follow "guidelines" up front, and a much better closing/voting
process. I think I helped garner interest and facilitated a process
for posting the photos in a central location. I think seeing all of
the photos side-by-side really adds a lot to the challenge. Now we
need to figure out how to simplify/automate the voting.

On a personal note, I really do not mind one way or the other
whether the challenge is open to other digicams or not, and I was
not trying to step out of bounds from the original "rules"
regarding these issues. I was simply trying to step up to make this
a more fun and fair process and had no expectations whatsoever that
challenge 3 would be perfect! But 38 photos later and lots of
discussion around important issues tells me this "grand experiment"
is on the right track! Let's try to work out the remaining wrinkles
and keep it going. I particularly like the idea of having each
forum conduct its own weekly challenge with a monthly, overall
challenge. This adds a bit of rivalry, lets those of us with more
than 1 digicam have some fun, and lets those in a particular forum
see some great work from their cameras. Perhaps this is a feature
that Phil would be interested in adding to the site? I for one
would be happy to help out.

Ok, well, I've tried to tabulate votes and added my vote for ":my
Kingdom for a lilypad!" - which is this week's winner! ZipperZ - go
forth and pick this week's challenge!

Thanks!
Michael

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