E-20N for an Novice?

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been "lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would finally ask my one question.

I am a novice photographer who shoots mostly snapshots of the family. I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and then I have my trusty pentax 35mm. The dc-260 is a good camera, but is slow and lacks the controls of my pentax. Also, the 1.6 megpixel is pretty limiting. For work I have bought and use several canon s20's and some Kodak dc-280's. These are good cameras, but are still "press here stupid!" type cameras, and I am looking for more control.

I am really looking for a good SLR type digital camera to shoot pictures of the family and such. (I have a 15 month old daughter who gets a lot of "flash" time).

My question for you all, is the e-20N the right choice for me? I am not to worried about the money, but I really do not want to go much beyond about $2500 for the setup (camera, lens and flash). Also my pet peeve of the dc-260 is the slow write times. After 2 shots it takes 20 seconds to clear and shoot again and this sounds like an issue of the e-20n, but only after 4 shots.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Sony 707 or Nikon 5000 when available.

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been
"lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would
finally ask my one question.

I am a novice photographer who shoots mostly snapshots of the
family. I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm. The dc-260 is a good camera,
but is slow and lacks the controls of my pentax. Also, the 1.6
megpixel is pretty limiting. For work I have bought and use
several canon s20's and some Kodak dc-280's. These are good
cameras, but are still "press here stupid!" type cameras, and I am
looking for more control.

I am really looking for a good SLR type digital camera to shoot
pictures of the family and such. (I have a 15 month old daughter
who gets a lot of "flash" time).

My question for you all, is the e-20N the right choice for me? I
am not to worried about the money, but I really do not want to go
much beyond about $2500 for the setup (camera, lens and flash).
Also my pet peeve of the dc-260 is the slow write times. After 2
shots it takes 20 seconds to clear and shoot again and this sounds
like an issue of the e-20n, but only after 4 shots.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

Check out my page,
http://www.jimsphotopage.com/digital/e20/index.html

Best Regards!
Jim K

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been
"lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would
finally ask my one question.

I am a novice photographer who shoots mostly snapshots of the
family. I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm. The dc-260 is a good camera,
but is slow and lacks the controls of my pentax. Also, the 1.6
megpixel is pretty limiting. For work I have bought and use
several canon s20's and some Kodak dc-280's. These are good
cameras, but are still "press here stupid!" type cameras, and I am
looking for more control.

I am really looking for a good SLR type digital camera to shoot
pictures of the family and such. (I have a 15 month old daughter
who gets a lot of "flash" time).

My question for you all, is the e-20N the right choice for me? I
am not to worried about the money, but I really do not want to go
much beyond about $2500 for the setup (camera, lens and flash).
Also my pet peeve of the dc-260 is the slow write times. After 2
shots it takes 20 seconds to clear and shoot again and this sounds
like an issue of the e-20n, but only after 4 shots.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

Peter M. Eick said:

I am a novice photographer who shoots mostly snapshots of the
family.
I am really looking for a good SLR type digital camera to shoot
pictures of the family and such. (I have a 15 month old daughter
who gets a lot of "flash" time).

My question for you all, is the e-20N the right choice for me? I
am not to worried about the money...>

Click to expand...

Joe Peoples writes:

For the money, the E20 is a great camera. I spent last Friday downtown NYC, and came back with terrific stuff. The camera was very responsive and a joy to use. To save space on my SM card, I shot at SHQ 1:8 (1.15mb file sizes) and the 8x10's I printed looked surprisingly good. Any other camera with motorized zoom would have slowed me down. The 4 shot buffer was never an issue and my exposure/composition errors were quickly corrected with the help of the lcd feedback. I say go for it! Let us know what you choose.

Peter,

In addition to the types of photography you mentioned, how do you plan to use the images? Will your photos be primarily for e-mail, or on a web site and/or for prints? If prints, what is the maximum size (4x6, 8x10, bigger)? For just web/e-mail and smaller prints use the E20 may be overkill.

Also, keep in mind the E-20 is fairly large -- you DON'T put this camera in a jacket pocket or your briefcase. It's a commitment to carry this thing around. Ask yourself if you are willing to schlepp around something the size of your 35mm SLR, medium zoom lens and external flash to take family pictures.

On the plus side, the E-10/20 is a pleasure to use. Controls are well placed and it's the closest you can get to a 35mm SLR experience for the price. Iif you intend to "grow" in digital photography, the E10/20 is a great camera with which to grow.

Others have already given you good suggestions on alternates.

Best,

Paul

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been
"lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would
finally ask my one question.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

Peter M. Eick said:

..I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm.... I am really looking for a
good SLR type digital camera...

Click to expand...

Peter,

I went from a DC-260 to the E-10 and it is perfect for me - through-the-lens focusing, framing, higher resolution, etc. It was the digital camera I had been waiting years for - plenty of control without going into debt. BTW, I am not a "pro" (I don't make my living from photos) but I do have over 30 years of photo experience with various 35mm, 2-1/4 twinlens, 4x5 sheet film, underwater, darkrooms, etc. I consider the E-10, along with Photoshop and the Epson 1280 printer, a worthy replacement for a B&W or color darkroom, unless you have a need for 35mm slides.

I currently shoot pictures to support my work (3d modeling, technical research), my family, my mission (working with children and church-related activities), and my hobbies.

Since I got it in March, I've shot many thousands of pictures with the E-10, and I've been quite satisfied. I thought about buying an E-20, and still may, but I think the E-10 is a far better deal at the current discounted prices.

Being familiar with the DC-260, you may be interested in a brief comparison betweein it and the E-10 that I wrote this for someone else soon after I got the E-10. Maybe it will help get things in "focus". [g]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-10 pluses, compared to DC-260

• far, far better lens
• excellent macro and telephoto lenses
• through-the-lens viewfinder
• almost 2 1/2 times as many pixels (sharper images)
• better at low light
• 4/3 aspect ratio - same as video frame
• can use both CF and SM cards
• many real controls instead of menus
• much, much faster to use manual controls
• real zoom control on lens!
• real focus control you can twist
• better control panel on top (with backlight)
• quieter to operate
• heavier camera can give steadier hand-held shots
• can tilt LCD screen
• twice as fast to turn on
• faster to take picture after pushing shutter release
• great lens hood
• uncompressed image format option
• more compressed image format options
• can take four pictures (instead of two) without waiting
• far better built-in flash
• quicker to turn flash on and off
• remote control
• much, much better add-on flash capability
• more battery options
• histogram on LCD
• LCD menus are quicker to navigate
• can't confuse shutter release with power button
• makes a better self defense weapon
• professional support community
• gives you more respect when taking photos

DC-260 pluses, compared to E-10
(* are things I wish Olympus would add to E-10)

• lighter to carry around
• small enought to fit into a large coat pocket or small fanny pack
• can sneak it into places
• easier for small hands to hold
• easier for one-handed person to use
• image aspect ratio same as 35mm camera
• friendlier image naming
• can delete a bad picture immediately
• MUCH MUCH faster at review of images on LCD
• MUCH MUCH faster when zooming and scrolling image on LCD
• info doesn't cover part of image in LCD viewfinder
• built-in audio recorder for notes
• powerful programming language built in
• many free custom programs available
• can connect to GPS to record Lat/Lon of camera
• can create custom LCD menus
• can be controlled by computer
• flash rom for camera firmware upgrades
• much cheaper, in case you drop it over a cliff
• not so many expensive add-on's you HAVE to have
• less likely to be targeted by theives
• you can lend it to someone without extensive emotional trauma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I still use the DC-260, but mostly to take places where I don't want to take the E-10, such as ATV trail-riding.

JKJ

JK,

Sorry if you didn't intend for these to be funny but I thought they hilarious! ;-) My bro-in-law and I went to this comparison also.
LesDMess

JK Jordan said:

E-10 pluses, compared to DC-260

• great lens hood
• can't confuse shutter release with power button
• makes a better self defense weapon

DC-260 pluses, compared to E-10
(* are things I wish Olympus would add to E-10)

• much cheaper, in case you drop it over a cliff
• not so many expensive add-on's you HAVE to have
• less likely to be targeted by theives
• you can lend it to someone without extensive emotional trauma

Click to expand...

Peter,

I'm a relative novice who's used point and shoot 35mm cameras for years and occasionally an old Minolta 35mm SLR. I purchased an E20 a few weeks ago and have taken about 400 images so far. The E20 is an excellent camera that gives you room to grow with it. It's easy to use and just feels right in your hands. The E20 excels both as a point and shoot camera, as a fully manual camera, and everything in between. I've tried a number of digital prosumer cameras, but none are as pleasing to use as the E20. Go play with one, or with an E10, and compare how it feels to other prosumer cameras such as the Sony F707, Minolta D7 and Canon G2. You'll see and feel the difference immediately. The E20 is engineered really well with controls/knobs in the right places. Plus, the autofocus and shutter release are really fast compared to other digital cameras. If all you ever do is point and shoot, you'll be really happy (see posts by Jaja, who swears by auto everything). If you want to experiment and use the manual controls, the E20 gives you the freedom to do so. I was afraid at first to go with the E20 because I thought it might be too much camera. Now that I've had it for a few weeks, I can't imagine ever being satisfied with a non-SLR style digital camera. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of really great prosumer cameras that give images that are comparable to those of the E20. If you went with the Sony F707 (5 megapixel) or Canon G2 (4 megapixel), you'd be happy with the images you get. Just to go a store that carries the E20/10 and those other cameras and plan to spend some time with each of them. Your gut feeling will tell you which camera to purchase. If you decide to get the E20, you won't regret it. If not, you'll still be happy with whatever camera you choose. The only problem I have found with the E20 is that it's too heavy and bulky to bring along when I go rock/ice climbing and mountaineering. For that kind of activity, nothing beats a slim, light point and shoot camera that hangs unnoticed around your neck. I plan to purchase another more compact P&S digital camera specifically for climbing. Other than that, I've found the E20 a joy to use. Plus, you get to participate in this excellent forum. Good luck and happy shooting.

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been
"lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would
finally ask my one question.

I am a novice photographer who shoots mostly snapshots of the
family. I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm. The dc-260 is a good camera,
but is slow and lacks the controls of my pentax. Also, the 1.6
megpixel is pretty limiting. For work I have bought and use
several canon s20's and some Kodak dc-280's. These are good
cameras, but are still "press here stupid!" type cameras, and I am
looking for more control.

I am really looking for a good SLR type digital camera to shoot
pictures of the family and such. (I have a 15 month old daughter
who gets a lot of "flash" time).

My question for you all, is the e-20N the right choice for me? I
am not to worried about the money, but I really do not want to go
much beyond about $2500 for the setup (camera, lens and flash).
Also my pet peeve of the dc-260 is the slow write times. After 2
shots it takes 20 seconds to clear and shoot again and this sounds
like an issue of the e-20n, but only after 4 shots.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

LesDMess said:

Sorry if you didn't intend for these to be funny but I thought they
hilarious! ;-)

Click to expand...

Well, I thought some were funny, but I didn't know if anyone else would!

The one about confusing the power and shutter release button is dead serious, though - the DC-260 puts them both on the top of the camera nearly adjacent to each other, both where the forefinger can press easily. They even feel nearly the same! After turning the thing off accidentally a few times and missing photos, I considered attaching a thumbtack to the power button with epoxy, business side up.

JKJ

I can relate! My last digital was also a DC-260 and the 260 pluses are spot on.

Paul

LesDMess said:

JK Jordan said:

E-10 pluses, compared to DC-260

• great lens hood
• can't confuse shutter release with power button
• makes a better self defense weapon

DC-260 pluses, compared to E-10
(* are things I wish Olympus would add to E-10)

• much cheaper, in case you drop it over a cliff
• not so many expensive add-on's you HAVE to have
• less likely to be targeted by theives
• you can lend it to someone without extensive emotional trauma

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

What I will use the camera for is up to 8x10 prints on various textronics phasers (560's, 560p's), lexmark ink jets etc. Occasionally I put out "e" size prints off the HP 755's and 1055cm's if I get a good shot. Most of the rest of the pictures are for email, web use and smaller prints.

I own the dc-260 and have access to many different "pocket" digitals, so what I am looking for is to replace my Pentax.

As to the size, I have been dragging the Pentax all around the world, so I cannot think this will be much different.

Thanks for the advice.

Paul S said:

In addition to the types of photography you mentioned, how do you
plan to use the images? Will your photos be primarily for e-mail,
or on a web site and/or for prints? If prints, what is the maximum
size (4x6, 8x10, bigger)? For just web/e-mail and smaller prints
use the E20 may be overkill.

Also, keep in mind the E-20 is fairly large -- you DON'T put this
camera in a jacket pocket or your briefcase. It's a commitment to
carry this thing around. Ask yourself if you are willing to
schlepp around something the size of your 35mm SLR, medium zoom
lens and external flash to take family pictures.

On the plus side, the E-10/20 is a pleasure to use. Controls are
well placed and it's the closest you can get to a 35mm SLR
experience for the price. Iif you intend to "grow" in digital
photography, the E10/20 is a great camera with which to grow.

Others have already given you good suggestions on alternates.

Best,

Paul

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been
"lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would
finally ask my one question.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

That is a very accurate assessment of the 260 (enjoyed the humor), so I will relate this to the e-20.

Let me clarify a few things.

So the e-20 can not update the firmware from my pc?, How do you do it then?

How do you delete a picture if you blow it in the field? Nothing like the 260's immediate delete during review?

How long does it take to review the picture on the lcd from the time of capture?

Finally what accessories must I have to have? I was thinking the 1.45x and the .8x add on lens, the fl40 flash and another couple of 256 or 512 meg cf cards.

Thanks for all of the 260 specific information.

JK Jordan said:

Peter M. Eick said:

..I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm.... I am really looking for a
good SLR type digital camera...

Click to expand...

Peter,

I went from a DC-260 to the E-10 and it is perfect for me -
through-the-lens focusing, framing, higher resolution, etc. It was
the digital camera I had been waiting years for - plenty of control
without going into debt. BTW, I am not a "pro" (I don't make my
living from photos) but I do have over 30 years of photo experience
with various 35mm, 2-1/4 twinlens, 4x5 sheet film, underwater,
darkrooms, etc. I consider the E-10, along with Photoshop and
the Epson 1280 printer, a worthy replacement for a B&W or color
darkroom, unless you have a need for 35mm slides.

I currently shoot pictures to support my work (3d modeling,
technical research), my family, my mission (working with children
and church-related activities), and my hobbies.

Since I got it in March, I've shot many thousands of pictures with
the E-10, and I've been quite satisfied. I thought about buying an
E-20, and still may, but I think the E-10 is a far better deal at
the current discounted prices.

Being familiar with the DC-260, you may be interested in a brief
comparison betweein it and the E-10 that I wrote this for someone
else soon after I got the E-10. Maybe it will help get things in
"focus". [g]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-10 pluses, compared to DC-260

• far, far better lens
• excellent macro and telephoto lenses
• through-the-lens viewfinder
• almost 2 1/2 times as many pixels (sharper images)
• better at low light
• 4/3 aspect ratio - same as video frame
• can use both CF and SM cards
• many real controls instead of menus
• much, much faster to use manual controls
• real zoom control on lens!
• real focus control you can twist
• better control panel on top (with backlight)
• quieter to operate
• heavier camera can give steadier hand-held shots
• can tilt LCD screen
• twice as fast to turn on
• faster to take picture after pushing shutter release
• great lens hood
• uncompressed image format option
• more compressed image format options
• can take four pictures (instead of two) without waiting
• far better built-in flash
• quicker to turn flash on and off
• remote control
• much, much better add-on flash capability
• more battery options
• histogram on LCD
• LCD menus are quicker to navigate
• can't confuse shutter release with power button
• makes a better self defense weapon
• professional support community
• gives you more respect when taking photos

DC-260 pluses, compared to E-10
(* are things I wish Olympus would add to E-10)

• lighter to carry around
• small enought to fit into a large coat pocket or small fanny pack
• can sneak it into places
• easier for small hands to hold
• easier for one-handed person to use
• image aspect ratio same as 35mm camera
• friendlier image naming
• can delete a bad picture immediately
• MUCH MUCH faster at review of images on LCD
• MUCH MUCH faster when zooming and scrolling image on LCD
• info doesn't cover part of image in LCD viewfinder
• built-in audio recorder for notes
• powerful programming language built in
• many free custom programs available
• can connect to GPS to record Lat/Lon of camera
• can create custom LCD menus
• can be controlled by computer
• flash rom for camera firmware upgrades
• much cheaper, in case you drop it over a cliff
• not so many expensive add-on's you HAVE to have
• less likely to be targeted by theives
• you can lend it to someone without extensive emotional trauma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I still use the DC-260, but mostly to take places where I
don't want to take the E-10, such as ATV trail-riding.

JKJ

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Very nice page.

Pete

Jim K said:

Best Regards!
Jim K

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am. I have been
"lurking" and reading for several weeks now, so I thought I would
finally ask my one question.

I am a novice photographer who shoots mostly snapshots of the
family. I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm. The dc-260 is a good camera,
but is slow and lacks the controls of my pentax. Also, the 1.6
megpixel is pretty limiting. For work I have bought and use
several canon s20's and some Kodak dc-280's. These are good
cameras, but are still "press here stupid!" type cameras, and I am
looking for more control.

I am really looking for a good SLR type digital camera to shoot
pictures of the family and such. (I have a 15 month old daughter
who gets a lot of "flash" time).

My question for you all, is the e-20N the right choice for me? I
am not to worried about the money, but I really do not want to go
much beyond about $2500 for the setup (camera, lens and flash).
Also my pet peeve of the dc-260 is the slow write times. After 2
shots it takes 20 seconds to clear and shoot again and this sounds
like an issue of the e-20n, but only after 4 shots.

Also if your suggestion is not the e-20N, what would you recommend?

Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am.

Click to expand...

Peter -

After reading the your msgs and the other posts, I would recommend the E-10 over the E-20. Why? First you want an SLR, which has many advantages over a non-SLR. The E-10/20 are the only SLR digitals in your price range. You mention you will limit your pics to 8x10's. For this the E-10 results won't have any real signifcant difference than the E-20, and all of us here on the forum have gotten great results up to 20x30 using the E-10 and Photoshop with Genuine Factuals.

You mention hating slow write times, well the E-20 is very slow in writing, it has the same size buffer and write speed as the E-10, but you saving about 1meg more per picture which really slows it down.

And finally, there is the huge price difference. Personally if you didn't need the video output, I'd look for a cheap E-10 grey market with a extended/non-oem warranty from a good company. Grey market E-10s are the SAME as stateside cameras except for the video out. You will also get a manual in English and a few other languages, and a better more indept manual on disk with a grey market.. The cheapest I've seen is $879.00.. A three year MACK warranty is about $129, so your saving quite a bit for not much gain.

Everyone knows it, whether they say it or not, the differences between the E-10 and E-20 are really not that great, unless you have a specific need like sports shooting and need the higher shutter speeds of the E-20 in progressive mode, but it's hardly a sports camera anyway with the high write time. By the way, the write time whether saving the lowest resolution images, or the highest, is the same. AND it's STILL significantly longer than an E-10.. In short, we've all been more than thrilled with the E-10 for the last year, the differences from the E-20 are small, so why waste the extra money? Use it to buy the FL-40, a couple acessory lenses, a new camera bag, memory cards, etc, etc..

I haven't heard anyone yet say they regret buying the E-10, so why should you? Sometimes having the latest and greatest isn't all that great, and this is one of those times..

BKKSW

Your e-10 suggestion is very good. I have handled one so I do have some experience with the e-10 locally. I found the e-10 to be very good (compared to my dc260) and a good upgrade for my pentax.

My thoughts on the e20 vs the e10 equate back to the old days of the 386sx and 386dx. I bought the 386sx (e10 by analogy) and never really had a problem. The only time the 386dx (e20 by analogy) made a difference was number crunching for work. I figured going with the e20 will not make my investment obsolete so quickly. I would like to use this camera for at least 3 to 5 years before I upgrade again.

Since I am looking to buy this before xmas, I have about a month to read, try and learn, so my next step is to go out and try that e-10 again and see what I think.

Thanks
Pete

BKKSW said:

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am.

Click to expand...

Peter -

After reading the your msgs and the other posts, I would recommend
the E-10 over the E-20. Why? First you want an SLR, which has
many advantages over a non-SLR. The E-10/20 are the only SLR
digitals in your price range. You mention you will limit your pics
to 8x10's. For this the E-10 results won't have any real
signifcant difference than the E-20, and all of us here on the
forum have gotten great results up to 20x30 using the E-10 and
Photoshop with Genuine Factuals.

You mention hating slow write times, well the E-20 is very slow in
writing, it has the same size buffer and write speed as the E-10,
but you saving about 1meg more per picture which really slows it
down.

And finally, there is the huge price difference. Personally if you
didn't need the video output, I'd look for a cheap E-10 grey market
with a extended/non-oem warranty from a good company. Grey market
E-10s are the SAME as stateside cameras except for the video out.
You will also get a manual in English and a few other languages,
and a better more indept manual on disk with a grey market.. The
cheapest I've seen is $879.00.. A three year MACK warranty is
about $129, so your saving quite a bit for not much gain.

Everyone knows it, whether they say it or not, the differences
between the E-10 and E-20 are really not that great, unless you
have a specific need like sports shooting and need the higher
shutter speeds of the E-20 in progressive mode, but it's hardly a
sports camera anyway with the high write time. By the way, the
write time whether saving the lowest resolution images, or the
highest, is the same. AND it's STILL significantly longer than an
E-10.. In short, we've all been more than thrilled with the E-10
for the last year, the differences from the E-20 are small, so why
waste the extra money? Use it to buy the FL-40, a couple acessory
lenses, a new camera bag, memory cards, etc, etc..

I haven't heard anyone yet say they regret buying the E-10, so why
should you? Sometimes having the latest and greatest isn't all
that great, and this is one of those times..

BKKSW

Click to expand...

P eter -

Try to look at it this way.. The DX ran faster than the SX and was better in everyway but price. The E-20 is slower and maybe/maybe not better in other ways.

You'll notice in the board now there is a thread of the "E-30 wish list." Go back and look at the different "E-20"wish lists.. Virtually no one came up with things like "more resolution (that was implied)", nor "progressive scan."

Almost everybody said they wanted a faster and bigger buffer, not a slower one. faster shutter speed (in full resolution), Microdrive compatibility (which they now included, but with 256mb CF cards for $90 who cares anymore?), and other things.

Don't think the E-10 is a lesser camera, it all depends on which features mean the most to you. Think of the E-10 as a economical purchase till the next version (E-30?) comes out with hopefully the features we really want..

BKKSW

Peter M. Eick said:

My thoughts on the e20 vs the e10 equate back to the old days of
the 386sx and 386dx. I bought the 386sx (e10 by analogy) and never
really had a problem. The only time the 386dx (e20 by analogy)
made a difference was number crunching for work. I figured going
with the e20 will not make my investment obsolete so quickly. I
would like to use this camera for at least 3 to 5 years before I
upgrade again.

Since I am looking to buy this before xmas, I have about a month to
read, try and learn, so my next step is to go out and try that e-10
again and see what I think.

Thanks
Pete

BKKSW said:

Peter M. Eick said:

I figured I would ask the experts so here I am.

Click to expand...

Peter -

After reading the your msgs and the other posts, I would recommend
the E-10 over the E-20. Why? First you want an SLR, which has
many advantages over a non-SLR. The E-10/20 are the only SLR
digitals in your price range. You mention you will limit your pics
to 8x10's. For this the E-10 results won't have any real
signifcant difference than the E-20, and all of us here on the
forum have gotten great results up to 20x30 using the E-10 and
Photoshop with Genuine Factuals.

You mention hating slow write times, well the E-20 is very slow in
writing, it has the same size buffer and write speed as the E-10,
but you saving about 1meg more per picture which really slows it
down.

And finally, there is the huge price difference. Personally if you
didn't need the video output, I'd look for a cheap E-10 grey market
with a extended/non-oem warranty from a good company. Grey market
E-10s are the SAME as stateside cameras except for the video out.
You will also get a manual in English and a few other languages,
and a better more indept manual on disk with a grey market.. The
cheapest I've seen is $879.00.. A three year MACK warranty is
about $129, so your saving quite a bit for not much gain.

Everyone knows it, whether they say it or not, the differences
between the E-10 and E-20 are really not that great, unless you
have a specific need like sports shooting and need the higher
shutter speeds of the E-20 in progressive mode, but it's hardly a
sports camera anyway with the high write time. By the way, the
write time whether saving the lowest resolution images, or the
highest, is the same. AND it's STILL significantly longer than an
E-10.. In short, we've all been more than thrilled with the E-10
for the last year, the differences from the E-20 are small, so why
waste the extra money? Use it to buy the FL-40, a couple acessory
lenses, a new camera bag, memory cards, etc, etc..

I haven't heard anyone yet say they regret buying the E-10, so why
should you? Sometimes having the latest and greatest isn't all
that great, and this is one of those times..

BKKSW

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Click to expand...

Peter M. Eick said:

That is a very accurate assessment of the 260 (enjoyed the humor),
so I will relate this to the e-20.

Let me clarify a few things.

So the e-20 can not update the firmware from my pc?, How do you do
it then?

Click to expand...

I can speek only of the E-10, but I believe the E-20 is not changed much. The E-10 camera must be sent to the Olympus factory service center to upgrade the control software. Currently, many people are sending in their E-10 cameras (for a $20 fee) and upgrading to firmware version 130 to fix pixel remapping deficiencies.

Peter M. Eick said:

How do you delete a picture if you blow it in the field? Nothing
like the 260's immediate delete during review?

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There is a delete button, and you get a near-immediate review as soon as you take the picture, but the delete button is not active at that time. To delete the picture just taken, go into the review mode ("double-click" the button that turns on the LCD monitor, wait till the picture is displayed (about three seconds), press the Delete button, then press the Left button and the OK button to confirm. It's not a huge problem, just more trouble, and an example of how some design engineers don't have the same good ideas as others.

Peter M. Eick said:

How long does it take to review the picture on the lcd from the
time of capture?

Click to expand...

On my E-10 it takes about three seconds after pushing the shutter button before the review image appears. However, the REALLY slow thing is zooming in and pannning around in the image. It takes between 2 and 5 seconds to zoom each level, and 2-5 seconds to pan each tiny increment. This is so unbareably slow that I seldom use it. And a shame, since zooming way in and panning around should be a quick and easy way to check sharpness - there should be a one button "zoom to max for focus check" function. Editorial comment: to do so quickly is more an issue of clever software implementation rather than processor speed limitations.

Peter M. Eick said:

Finally what accessories must I have to have? I was thinking the
1.45x and the .8x add on lens, the fl40 flash and another couple of
256 or 512 meg cf cards.

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What you "must" have depends a lot on the type of photography you intend on doing (and the flexibility you want to expand your photography!) Here are some 's for my personal "must have" ratings (although I didn't "must have" them all at once!):

1. FL-40 strobe 2. MCON lens
3. WCON lens
4. LiPO battery grip , or
5. NiMH AA batteries, good charger
6. Extra memory 7. Protective filter
8. Polarizing filter
9. Lumiquest pocket bouncer 10. Good camera bag 11. Good tripod 12 Monopod *
13. Extended warrenty (and hope you never use it!)
14. Remote shutter (on it's way)
15. Long telephoto (on my wish list)

For general family photos, I'd start with #1, 5, 6, 7, and perhaps 9.

The FL-40 strobe will greately enhance your family photos, either with the bounce or with one of the inexpensive Lumiquest pocket bouncers for softer lighting ( http://www.lumiquest.com ). I use the built-in strobe only for emergencies.

The E-10, like most other digital cameras, sucks batteries, and there is NOTHING worse than running out of battery power at the wrong time (well, dropping the camera off the top of the lighthouse would be worse). I maintained six sets of NiMH batteries before I bought the LiPo battery grip. The LiPo has it's pros and cons, but after using one for a while, I'd hate to be without it. Even with it, AAs are still needed for the strobe.

My strategy for memory cards is to split up my storeage needs into several smaller cards rather than one big one. If I project a need for 512 megs, I'd probably go with four 128M or two 256M cards instead of one 512M. Since anything electronic can die at any moment, you stand to lose less this way in the event of a disaster. However, another strategy is to keep one big card in the camera, download by USB, and NEVER remove the card and subject it to handling and environmental issues! (can't drop it in the sink, get peanut butter in the connnector holes, etc)

If I have to shoot a large number of photos for an event, I try to take the laptop along to offload photos occasionally and make dual CD-R backups. (So far, I've lost nothing - knocking on wood) Some people use the Digital Wallet for backup on the road, but that's another thing that can break. There are also photo stores that can take a memory card and burn a CD - this might be the best solution for vacation times.

One of my interests is wildlife photography, so I am thinking about the telephoto lens. The wide angle is great for indoor shots and other places where you just can't back up any more, but I if I had to choose between or limit my inital purchases, I'd probably go with the macro lens (again, depending on the type of photography intended)

Also, the image quality from the E-10 is so good, one of the first things I did to celebrate was get a new color printer (Epson 1280). Their premium glossy paper is outstanding.

JKJ

JK Jordan said:

...To delete the picture just taken, go into the review
mode ("double-click" the button that turns on the LCD monitor, wait
till the picture is displayed (about three seconds)...

Click to expand...

I neglected to mention that the time to wait until the picture is displayed depends on the quality level you choose - with a TIFF file, I timed it as well over one minute (70 seconds).

I also forgot to mention that I don't consider the lack of an immediate delete to be a big problem. With today's huge, inexpensive memory cards, I simply wait and delete when reviewing the images on the computer screen. I admit that on close inspection I have found some "keepers" that I might have automaticallly deleted while shooting if pressed for image storage space.

BTW, I find the program ACDSee to be the most efficient way to review, organize, and manage images on a PC. http://www.acdsystems.com

JKJ

JK,

Liked your post. I too started my digital life with a dc-260 and took over 6,000 shots. It was a fine camera at the time and never let me down. I progressed to the E-10 via a sony s70 (mistake) and now have a canon s300 for times when I need to slip a camera in my pocket. Your pluses and minuses were spot on, however, I would like to add one more. The ability to rotate portrait style shots in camera. I find that when I am at a party or event with friends, we like to show the pictures I have taken on a TV using the video out and slide show functions. I hate it when everyone has to crane their necks to see a shot. IMHO if the slide show function is on a camera, the rotate function should be too, just like the good old 260, which even rotated automatically.

Overall though I love the E-10, it gives you all the control you need and has the optics to deliver stunning results.

Best regards

Allan

JK Jordan said:

Peter M. Eick said:

..I have a Kodak dc-260 that is starting to show its age and
then I have my trusty pentax 35mm.... I am really looking for a
good SLR type digital camera...

Click to expand...

Peter,

I went from a DC-260 to the E-10 and it is perfect for me -
through-the-lens focusing, framing, higher resolution, etc. It was
the digital camera I had been waiting years for - plenty of control
without going into debt. BTW, I am not a "pro" (I don't make my
living from photos) but I do have over 30 years of photo experience
with various 35mm, 2-1/4 twinlens, 4x5 sheet film, underwater,
darkrooms, etc. I consider the E-10, along with Photoshop and
the Epson 1280 printer, a worthy replacement for a B&W or color
darkroom, unless you have a need for 35mm slides.

I currently shoot pictures to support my work (3d modeling,
technical research), my family, my mission (working with children
and church-related activities), and my hobbies.

Since I got it in March, I've shot many thousands of pictures with
the E-10, and I've been quite satisfied. I thought about buying an
E-20, and still may, but I think the E-10 is a far better deal at
the current discounted prices.

Being familiar with the DC-260, you may be interested in a brief
comparison betweein it and the E-10 that I wrote this for someone
else soon after I got the E-10. Maybe it will help get things in
"focus". [g]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-10 pluses, compared to DC-260

• far, far better lens
• excellent macro and telephoto lenses
• through-the-lens viewfinder
• almost 2 1/2 times as many pixels (sharper images)
• better at low light
• 4/3 aspect ratio - same as video frame
• can use both CF and SM cards
• many real controls instead of menus
• much, much faster to use manual controls
• real zoom control on lens!
• real focus control you can twist
• better control panel on top (with backlight)
• quieter to operate
• heavier camera can give steadier hand-held shots
• can tilt LCD screen
• twice as fast to turn on
• faster to take picture after pushing shutter release
• great lens hood
• uncompressed image format option
• more compressed image format options
• can take four pictures (instead of two) without waiting
• far better built-in flash
• quicker to turn flash on and off
• remote control
• much, much better add-on flash capability
• more battery options
• histogram on LCD
• LCD menus are quicker to navigate
• can't confuse shutter release with power button
• makes a better self defense weapon
• professional support community
• gives you more respect when taking photos

DC-260 pluses, compared to E-10
(* are things I wish Olympus would add to E-10)

• lighter to carry around
• small enought to fit into a large coat pocket or small fanny pack
• can sneak it into places
• easier for small hands to hold
• easier for one-handed person to use
• image aspect ratio same as 35mm camera
• friendlier image naming
• can delete a bad picture immediately
• MUCH MUCH faster at review of images on LCD
• MUCH MUCH faster when zooming and scrolling image on LCD
• info doesn't cover part of image in LCD viewfinder
• built-in audio recorder for notes
• powerful programming language built in
• many free custom programs available
• can connect to GPS to record Lat/Lon of camera
• can create custom LCD menus
• can be controlled by computer
• flash rom for camera firmware upgrades
• much cheaper, in case you drop it over a cliff
• not so many expensive add-on's you HAVE to have
• less likely to be targeted by theives
• you can lend it to someone without extensive emotional trauma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I still use the DC-260, but mostly to take places where I
don't want to take the E-10, such as ATV trail-riding.

JKJ

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Allan G said:

...The ability to rotate portrait style shots in camera.

Click to expand...

Yes, I forgot about that! (For those not familiar, the DC-260 series incorporates a sensor which detects which orientation you are holding the camera, and automatically rotates the images as captures and saves) A great feature.

BTW, for post-camera rotating, ACDSee is a great help with it's lossless jpeg transform - instead of having to load the JPG into a program (uncompressing), rotate, then save (recompress), it avoids additional artifacts by "rotating" the data directly in the file.

JKJ