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Auto versus P mode - picture feedback please

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Alain D

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I've been venturing into the manual modes (P in this case) and am not sure about the results. I've had my wife take those 2 pictures using the XT and kit lens on a very clowded day (second one with flash is more realistic to how dark that day was)

First one: P mode, no flash, ISO1600, 1/80s hand held, f5.60, 18mm kit lens, pattern metering,auto-exposure



This looks almost like a sunny day picture (it wasn't) but I don't like the overblown on the face and seems fuzzy (maybe hand held shake - focus was center so I don't think she focused os something in the background...). A bit of noise too (needed 1600 for 1/80s I presume). here's a 100% crop.



the second picture was taken with green auto-mode by my wife again - this time built in flash kicked in. I like this picture much better (good lighting on subject, no eyes shadow, seem crisper as well... although I like the background lighting of the first one better - not as dark clowdy day it was.

Auto green mode. Flash ISO400 1/60s hand held, 18mm, f4



and 100% crop



what question is: what would you do in creative mode to make it look better than the auto mode ? any reason not to stick to auto-mode here ?

in my P mode I assume I should have maybe picked lower F4, gone to maybe ISO 800 (didn't want to go below 1/60th hand held) and compensate for exposure by 2/3 given that the subject are brighter than the background ? seem like flash was better here anyway because I'm seeing weird eye/nose shadow from the sky.

Critic please.
 
Alain D said:
in my P mode I assume I should have maybe picked lower F4, gone to
maybe ISO 800 (didn't want to go below 1/60th hand held) and
compensate for exposure by 2/3 given that the subject are brighter
than the background ? seem like flash was better here anyway
because I'm seeing weird eye/nose shadow from the sky.
Click to expand...
The P mode is still semi-automatic, and the only thing you did is to use high ISO but not the flash. There is nothing wrong with the full auto mode, as it is programmed to give you "reasonably good" picture under most conditions. The reason to use manual or semi-automatic mode is to override the default behavior and give you even better control.

-Override the meter reading with FEC or EC.
-Alter aperture for DOF control.
-Alter shutter speed to freeze or blur subject.
-Use ISO more than 400.
-Shoot in RAW.
-Change the drive and focus modes.
-Change the current AF point.
-Turn on or off the flash.
etc...

I'm sure I had missed a few, but you get the idea.

Pictures wise, the first shot is a little blown as you already noted. OTOH, the flash shot had made the skin a little cold, but some WB tweaks would fix that. I would probably not to crop out one of you feet and show more of the waterfall (and move subjects away from center.)

BTW, your second 100% crop is the same as the first one.

--
Ray Chen
http://www.arrayphoto.com
 
You do know that you can push the little lightning bolt button to force the flash to pop up in "P" mode. "P" mode gives you a bit more control over Auto like being able to select your focus point and firing the flash in your case for Fill flash.
--
Click the link below to see a gallery of my photo's.
http://www.pbase.com/markswheels
 
Alain D said:
in my P mode I assume I should have maybe picked lower F4, gone to
maybe ISO 800 (didn't want to go below 1/60th hand held) and
compensate for exposure by 2/3 given that the subject are brighter
than the background ?
Click to expand...
It sounds like you could use Av mode and always have control over aperture and use EC if necessary.

One of the problems in your pics I think, is that the camera may have focused on your black jacket, and as the metering is also linked to the actively AF point, it would have help caused the overexposure. This is something that the person composing the pic always has to be mindful of.

Also, is the camera's parameters still set on the default P1 with its high contrast? If so, P2 with more neutral settings can help avoid the washed out look of shiny foreheads and such.

--
If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
 
I love the full auto mode, but it seldomly chooses the right focus points for me. It takes a little more practice....
 
Oopps. no wonder I didn't see much noise difference between 1600 and 400 ISO. are here both crops again

1600 ISO P mode 100%crop



400 ISO auto mode + flash

 
Ray Chen said:
-Shoot in RAW.
-Change the current AF point.
Click to expand...
I wish those 2 were available in auto-mode (at least raw so I could better recover bad shots).
Ray Chen said:
Pictures wise, the first shot is a little blown as you already
noted.
Click to expand...
right, that why I felt the auto-mode worked so much better there.
Ray Chen said:
...I would probably not to crop out
one of you feet and show more of the waterfall (and move subjects
away from center.)
Click to expand...
oh yeah, the cropping (almost square) was to reduce file size from the full shot. so ignore composition there.
Ray Chen said:
BTW, your second 100% crop is the same as the first one.
Click to expand...
Ooops !

thanks for the feedback. Guess you all know what I look like now (first picture posting).
 
Yes I know - wife doesn't use that mode and I left it that way. I taking for some large landscape shots and knew the little flash wouldn't do it, so I went to P and cranked up to ISO1600 to get resonable hand held speed.
markswheels said:
You do know that you can push the little lightning bolt button to
force the flash to pop up in "P" mode. "P" mode gives you a bit
more control over Auto like being able to select your focus point
and firing the flash in your case for Fill flash.
Click to expand...
fill flash being in full daylight but the subject is somewhat shadowed and therefore needs a bit of flash that the camera wouldn't otherwise do, right ?
markswheels said:
--
Click the link below to see a gallery of my photo's.
http://www.pbase.com/markswheels
Click to expand...
 
kiwi2 said:
Alain D said:
in my P mode I assume I should have maybe picked lower F4, gone to
maybe ISO 800 (didn't want to go below 1/60th hand held) and
compensate for exposure by 2/3 given that the subject are brighter
than the background ?
Click to expand...
It sounds like you could use Av mode and always have control over
aperture and use EC if necessary.
Click to expand...
right, AV to control the f stop in this case.
kiwi2 said:
One of the problems in your pics I think, is that the camera may
have focused on your black jacket, and as the metering is also
linked to the actively AF point, it would have help caused the
overexposure. This is something that the person composing the pic
always has to be mindful of.
Click to expand...
ha! that's good to know. I didn't take the shot, but since I use center point in P mode (the main reason I go to that mode when I can't focus right) that is a real possibility.

I thought focus and recompose were not a good thing in Flash E-TTL. But actually if you focus on the main subject, then you can recompose to include the right background... right ?
kiwi2 said:
Also, is the camera's parameters still set on the default P1 with
its high contrast? If so, P2 with more neutral settings can help
avoid the washed out look of shiny foreheads and such.
Click to expand...
thank you. I'll try that.
 
so true... i soemtimes find myself pressig the pre-focus multiple times until I get the right one (seems smart enough to try different combination often). That'usually when I switch to P mode which I set to center point for that reason.

wish you could pick between 1 and 7 pt in auto mode with a simple button ! (I don't need all the different combinations unless you go full manual and it takes a whiel to cycle them all)
webshark3 said:
I love the full auto mode, but it seldomly chooses the right focus
points for me. It takes a little more practice....
Click to expand...
 
Alain D said:
wish you could pick between 1 and 7 pt in auto mode with a simple
button ! (I don't need all the different combinations unless you go
full manual and it takes a whiel to cycle them all)
Click to expand...
It doesn't help full-auto (green box) mode, but in the Creative modes where you can select AF points, you don't need to use the wheel to switch between center-point and 7-point. Just press the Set button (after you've pressed the AF point selection button). It's a lot quicker than using the wheel or the arrow buttons.
 
about the flash being a little white'ish in the second shot (with flash).

I've read people recomend shooting with WB=cloudy days even in sunny day (happen to be very cloudy that day) to warm skins up.

I don't know what mode auto green picked, but I guess that's another reason to pick creative mode where I had cloudy WB.

so to recap: to make better pic than auto-modeI had, I should have picked AV to force f4.0 (lowest for the lens) ISO 400 (like auto), force the flash, but make WB=cloudy and P2 (havn't tried that) and make sure my center focus point was on the face (not black sweashirt which is what I had in P mode with center point - only 10 pixels from hitting my daughter's sweatshirt!)
 
thank you that is very cool! much faster than wheel...
(guess I should read the entire manual - only done part of it so far).
Doug Pardee said:
It doesn't help full-auto (green box) mode, but in the Creative
modes where you can select AF points, you don't need to use the
wheel to switch between center-point and 7-point. Just press the
Set button (after you've pressed the AF point selection button).
It's a lot quicker than using the wheel or the arrow buttons.
Click to expand...
 
yeah, I measured the (original) first shot and the center point AF (what I set for P mode) is dead on my black sweatshirt. Explains a lot now... focsu and lighting overblown...
 
Alain D said:
I thought focus and recompose were not a good thing in Flash E-TTL.
But actually if you focus on the main subject, then you can
recompose to include the right background... right ?
Click to expand...
I only use focus and recompose as a last resort if I have to. The 350D uses E-TTL II and is somewhat different from the 300D's flash metering.

Either selecting a particular AF point or doing a small recompose from directly on your face or even on the child as she is more of a midtone would have been more desirable than being directly on the black jacket.

--
If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
 
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